Climate Change

[Scaffy]

If I did have any concerns about the size of my carbon footprint (which I didn't), then I certainly wouldn't be too worried about it now!

I got this in an email today. I'm sure some of you have received it already, maybe even months ago, but thought I'd share...


All of you out there across the globe who have fought so hard to tackle the hideous enemy of our planet, namely carbon emissions, you know .....that bogus god you worship of "Climate Change" or "Global Warming"......well, I feel it is necessary to inform you of some bad news. It really does pain me to have to bring you this disappointing information.

Are you sitting down?

Okay, here's the bombshell. The current volcanic eruption going on in Iceland, since its first spewing of volcanic ash has, in just FOUR DAYS, NEGATED EVERY SINGLE EFFORT you have made in the past five years to control CO2 emissions on our planet - all of you.

Of course you know about this evil carbon dioxide that we are trying to suppress - it's that vital chemical compound that every plant requires to live and grow and to synthesise into oxygen for us humans and all animal life.

I know, I know.... (group hug)...it's very disheartening to realise that all of the carbon emission savings you have accomplished while suffering the inconvenience and expense of: driving Prius hybrids, buying fabric grocery bags, sitting up till midnight to finish your kid's "The Green Revolution" science project, throwing out all of your non-green cleaning supplies, using only two squares of toilet paper, putting a brick in your toilet tank reservoir, selling your SUV and speedboat, vacationing at home instead of Bali, nearly getting hit every day on your bicycle, replacing all of your $1 light bulbs with $10 light bulbs ...well, all of those things you have done have all gone down the tubes in just four days.

The volcanic ash emitted into the Earth's atmosphere in just four days - yes - FOUR DAYS ONLY by that volcano in Iceland, has totally erased every single effort you have made to reduce the evil beast, carbon. And there are around 200 active volcanoes on the planet spewing out this crud any one time - EVERY DAY.

Oh, I don't really want to rain on your parade too much, but I should mention that when the volcano Mt Pinatubo erupted in the Philippines in 1991, it spewed out more greenhouse gases into the atmosphere than the entire human race had emitted in its entire time on earth. Yes folks, Mt Pinatubo was active for over one year - think about it.

Of course I shouldn't spoil this touchy-feely tree-hugging moment and mention the effect of solar and cosmic activity and the well-recognised 800-year global heating and cooling cycle, which keep happening, despite our completely insignificant efforts to affect climate change.

I'm so sorry. And I do wish I had a silver lining to this volcanic ash cloud but the fact of the matter is that the bush fire season across the western USA and Australia this year alone will negate all your efforts to reduce carbon in our world for the next two to three years. And it happens every year?.

Just remember that your government just tried to impose a whopping carbon tax on you on the basis of the bogus "human-caused" climate change scenario. No mention of a Tax on all the emissions caused by Prescribed Bush Fire Burning?

The Prescribed forest burning in Victoria alone puts more c02 into the atmosphere that all power generation in Australia in one year?


Hey, isn't it interesting how they don't mention "Global Warming" any more, but just "Climate Change" - you know why? It's because the planet has COOLED by 0.7 degrees in the past century and these global warming ******** artists got caught with their pants down.

And just keep in mind that now the same government is in control, you will have an Emissions Trading Scheme - that whopping new tax - imposed on you, that will achieve absolutely nothing except make you poorer. It won't stop any volcanoes from erupting, that's for sure! So much for "social justice", the frequently used catch phrase used by governments to convince the voting populace that their policies will somehow benefit the not so well off!

[Mickxr8]

Interesting.
this is gonna open a can of worms

[Work Horse]

Originally Posted by mickxr8

Interesting.
this is gonna open a can of worms

I'll play, unfortunately this wasn't sent to me in an email. I had to actually look for it.
http://www.science.org.au/policy/climatechange.html

[ltd]

The climate change cult is set for a big shake up with the fallout of recent natural disasters (fires and floods), and Bob Brown has put his foot in it trying to pin it on coal and climate change. Thanks Bob, we're still counting our losses as a nation and you come up with this garbage you inconsiderate twat.
Anyway, a mate of mine sent me the link to this video, I'd love to send it to Bob Brown and the ecotards just to upset them. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvboRU6_MA8&feature=fvw

The bit at 0:45 makes me laugh, I'd love to do that in front of the next Greens or climate change rally.

[colinl]

Most of the evidence supports global warming, but there are other views. I'm in no position to know which camp is right because I don't understand the science fully and I'm not capable of sitting down and evaluating their research methodology.

The thing I ask myself is, is with all the changes we are making to the environment; and all the stuff we are introducing into it, is it more likely that we are effecting the environment or not? This is no definitive answer, but when I look at it this way, and couple the majority science view, then I have no problems accepting that climate change is more than likely a reality.

[trippytaka]

Not this again! I seem to remember another thread a while ago where ignorance and blindly following the musings of others, without doing independant research was the basis of the majority of the comments.

[Scott]

Originally Posted by trippytaka

Not this again! I seem to remember another thread a while ago where ignorance and blindly following the musings of others, without doing independant research was the basis of the majority of the comments.

Climate Change is about money and nothing less. Talk about blindly folowing an ideal eh?

The problem people like me face is that Politically Correct, Libertarian and Green bandwagons are the easiest ones for the lazy masses to get on - so much so that they become self fulfilling juggernaughts of truth. If you don't subscribe to the cash driven hysteria, you are an outcast with no conscience, no compassion and ultimatley - no voice.

It is not those that buck the trend and follow others less popular opinions on a small scale that I would concern myself with trippytaka - it is those that blindly believe whatever feel-good story is handed down to them by a group with a "vested interest" and are prepared to chastise those around them to make themselves feel like the do-ers they are not.

[tranquilized]

I just love threads like this!!

So first you say;

Originally Posted by Scott

Climate Change is about money and nothing less. Talk about blindly folowing an ideal eh?

And then;

Originally Posted by Scott

I've not really waded too deep into Climate Change but I do wonder the relationship between the earths population and tempeatures

Sorry to pick on you there mate, but I think this sums up pretty much everyones situation on both sides of the fence on this issue - prepared to make definite statements without any knowledge or research to back them up.

To suggest all the various emissions from human activity will have absolutely no harmful effects on this planets environment is optimistic at best, more like dangerous ignorance IMO.

And carbon trading, yes, I agree - absolute rubbish. Dont agree with carbon trading schemes at all. Carbon tax however, I think this should definitely happen.

Yes I know, its yet another tax. I hate taxes as much as anyone. Thing is, and even the most steadfast climate change skeptic should agree with this unless their head is truly in the sand - we must move away from fossil fueled energy, for the simple reason that fossil fuels will eventually run out. With me so far? So, how can we do this? Why bother adopting new technologies when the old stuff does it just as well at a fraction of the cost?? Carbon tax makes new technology more competitive on a cost basis. It will make more people consider options they wouldn't have previously. It will get too expensive to pollute, so people will look at ways they can stop.

In an ideal world;

A carbon tax is largely an optional tax - dont pollute as much and you wont pay as much.

A carbon tax is a temporary tax. If it works as it should in theory, then eventually there will barely be any carbon emissions, therefore barely any tax.

A carbon tax can harness the market, which is by far the most powerfull tool in a capitalist society, and make it possible, inevetible to move to cleaner energy and industry.

Funds from a carbon tax can be used to subsidise the shift to cleaner energy - solar panels for houses for example.

With no carbon tax or similar, we'll continue on with current technologies until we suddenly run out of oil, at which point the change over to newer technologies will need to be a lot quicker and a lot more expensive than it could have been. So in the long run, the carbon tax isn't very expensive at all.

I should point out that I do realise my points on a carbon tax are in an ideal (fantasy) world, and fully understand that the whole system would be corrupted by any government imaginable, resulting in it being far less effective and more costly than it should be.

Originally Posted by chevypower

I know it's easy to sit behind a computer and say "it's a myth." It takes no research or effort to do that, except for the effort of typing out the words "it's a myth." I will admit, I really don't know. The climate is obviously becoming more dramatic in rainfall and drought, which has been taught be believers in global warming. How much is created by natural changes and how much is created by pollution? Does anyone really know? Even if it's impossible to measure, it doesn't mean it's not real. Does it hurt to try to be a little cleaner? I find it funny and natural that people on car forums would naturally just claim it's all a myth. It's just easier to like cars that way, but it doesn't make it true. Besides, pollution has obvious short term affects, not just global warming. So I'm all for cleaner energy, and conserving that clean and renewable energy rather than wasting it. But I don't think we need to compromise our lifestyles to work towards that. You just have to be smarter. Eg, I think we can have big powerful, fast cars that are clean. That's my thoughts anyway.

This is a great post. Why is it that car enthusiasts tend to be climate change skeptics? Do you feel its your duty as a car guy? Do you feel your hobby is threatened therefore condenm climate change with absolute certainty despite knowing very little about it?

The main point that I want to make is this; YOU DO NOT KNOW EVERYTHING

You dont know that climate change caused by human activity is BS.
I dont know that it isn't.
So the claim is scientists pedal climate change to secure funding. What about the skeptic scientists, aren't they just all employed by oil companies and the like? Whos paying their bills??

No one knows for certain what the real deal is. So wouldn't it pay to exercise some caution? Especially seeing as there are other reasons to do so (ie; fossil fuel depletion)

[Scott]

Originally Posted by tranquilized

I just love threads like this!!

Since you have taken an interest, please define what I call "too deep". I really am keen to know.

Your post is full of of speculation and contradiction.

Just jot down a list for me where I suggested that humans have had zero impact on the climate (tbh, I don't think they have btw) - but you made the statement so feel free to share with us what I said.

So we get a Carbon Tax..... but the majority of the world, and indeed it's biggest polluters, don't. For the sake of the minuscule contribution Australia might have made to pollution on a global scale, left wing fanatics are happy to roll the dice on the word of people with a blindingly obvious agenda that may well completely destroy the economic and social wealth of this great country.

There are no facts, or even reasonable quantities of data to suggest that anything is actually happening to this planet that is out of the norm in what really could be billion year cycles. No facts, just a sales pitch with annoying hysteria.

It might be entertaining for you to talk about everything we don't know about global warming whilst still riding the wagon and I can assure you it is equally fun to sit back knowing that at the very least, I can reason why I don't believe it. Unfortunately you, and everyone else on the bandwagon cannot. Because all of it is based on nothing but thin air, greed and feeling good about having a cause.

It was pretty good timing for the lunatic in Tasmania to pipe up this week and tell us all about how the Coal Industry is directly responsible for the Queensland Floods - how amazing must Jones have been to predict the recent drought and subsequent deluge back in 1953? Clever man to not only know weather inside out and back to front but to be able to predict with incredible accuracy that China would surge up and Australian Coal Miners would fuel the fires to build their Nation. The very result of which would be the real reason it rained...but best he kept all that to himself ay?

Find me a chart (they do exist) where we can look at 1000 years of temps and I'll give you a swag of reasons why they are true and we have a problem, or why they are bogus and we don't.

The only fact is that there are no facts to support the hysteria. When there is, come and talk to me about what I'll be doing to try and do my bit.

Save the forests, stop polluting our waterways, farm smarter, look to renewable energy and stick to good, wholesome, tangible and common sense ideas.

[tranquilized]

Originally Posted by Scott

Since you have taken an interest, please define what I call "too deep". I really am keen to know.

My post wasn't entirely directed at you. I used your quotes to make a point that people make definite statements about a subject of which they dont have enough knowledge to do so - it was a general observation. I dont know how you define "too deep", its irrelevant to my broader point anyway because as I said, it wasn't directed solely at you.

Originally Posted by Scott

Your post is full of of speculation and contradiction.

Maybe some speculation, but if you could point out the contradiction that would be appreciated.

Originally Posted by Scott

So we get a Carbon Tax..... but the majority of the world, and indeed it's biggest polluters, don't. For the sake of the minuscule contribution Australia might have made to pollution on a global scale, left wing fanatics are happy to roll the dice on the word of people with a blindingly obvious agenda that may well completely destroy the economic and social wealth of this great country.

Valid point about Australia adopting a carbon tax before other countries though, and I think its this lack of agreement thats the biggest factor holding back the implementation of these kinds of measures. The question is how much will it cost not to act now? Unfortunately this question is all but unanswerable.

Originally Posted by Scott

There are no facts, or even reasonable quantities of data to suggest that anything is actually happening to this planet that is out of the norm in what really could be billion year cycles. No facts, just a sales pitch with annoying hysteria.

It might be entertaining for you to talk about everything we don't know about global warming whilst still riding the wagon and I can assure you it is equally fun to sit back knowing that at the very least, I can reason why I don't believe it. Unfortunately you, and everyone else on the bandwagon cannot. Because all of it is based on nothing but thin air, greed and feeling good about having a cause.

The theory of Human caused climate change is based on a body of evidence gained by scientific study. The theory that its not caused by human activity is also based on scientific study. So you've just decided to believe one theory over another, just like I have. Doesn't make you any more wrong or right than the next guy who believes the other theory.

Originally Posted by Scott

The only fact is that there are no facts to support the hysteria. When there is, come and talk to me about what I'll be doing to try and do my bit.

Facts?? Where are the facts to support humans aren't to blame? All we have is evidence - evidence that supports both points of view. Forget for a moment what you and I or anyone else believes. All I'm saying is, shouldn't we at least exercise some caution? Strive towards an emission free society?

If it turns out climate change is caused by humans, we wont get any facts confirming it until its far too late. If we get facts down the track that it isn't caused by humans, and steps made to reduce emissions were in vain, then we're left with clean and renewable energy supplies. There will be a cost involved sure, but these changes need to be made irrespective of the causes of climate change. Regardless of your views, its irrefutable logic.

[GOLDIE]

climate change what a load of ****.
Climate cycle is what it is look at queensalnd right now 1974 all over again.
It is just nature doing what nature does replanish the earth as is needed.

Bob brown and every greeny needs there heads pulled in.
On our farms 30 years ago we locked off 500 acres of land so no stock could get in and the wild life can just be there guess what no one said good on you and also there is hardly any wild life there.
Now the greenies say we need to lock of even more of our farm because of endangerd spicies living there i can tell you now all that is there is **** that not even a bird can be heard in.greenies should get a real job and stop wasting our time and money.

Ian

[ThaFlash]

I might take this argument seriously if someone showed me the weather records of earth from 1 million years ago right up till now.

[Adamz Ghia]

It always seems to be forgotten that we are comming out of a Little Ice Age which ended in the 1850's. When we leave an Ice Age, fulilly enough, the earth will warm.

Never mind the planet hasn't warmed since 1998...

[Fled74]

Time for me to watch "The Day After Tomorrow" again...

[xisled]

Don't worry, I will think of climate chang everytime I get into by BA GT, and drive it to and from work daily, oh and not to mention when I drive around on a firday night just cruising around.

[colinl]

It seems a little like religion. People have set ideas and that is that, they will take evidence that supports their view and forget evidence that doesn't. As I mentioned, I have no idea how real climate change is. I am prepared to think that what we do to the world will have an effect on it though. If I put crapy oil in my motor it won't last long. How long it will last I have no idea, but I'm pretty sure it will make a difference.

[3vXT]

Originally Posted by colinl

It seems a little like religion. People have set ideas and that is that, they will take evidence that supports their view and forget evidence that doesn't.

That's some nice generalising there.

All of the churchies I know are pretty open minded (i'm not a churchie myself). The people you are describing come from all walks of life, some of them are religious and some aren't but your comment doesn't ring true for everyone that subscribes to a particular set of beliefs. I'm sure if you took a good look around on ford forums (or similar) you'd find people that "will take evidence that supports their view and forget evidence that doesn't". It doesn't mean everyone on here or at church on Sunday shares the same ignorance.

EDIT: As for global warming I can honestly say that I don't really care either way. It's popular to drive a prius and use the re-useable bags (I do the latter anyway) and its popular to make as much noise as you can so everyone knows you don't believe and aren't being fooled by the evil government. I'll wait until both sides are finished trying to tell the world they are right or until the wheels fall off the bandwagons (probably around the 12th of never) and then i'll weigh in.

[colinl]

Originally Posted by ken2903

That's some nice generalising there.

All of the churchies I know are pretty open minded (i'm not a churchie myself). The people you are describing come from all walks of life, some of them are religious and some aren't but your comment doesn't ring true for everyone that subscribes to a particular set of beliefs. I'm sure if you took a good look around on ford forums (or similar) you'd find people that "will take evidence that supports their view and forget evidence that doesn't". It doesn't mean everyone on here or at church on Sunday shares the same ignorance.

EDIT: As for global warming I can honestly say that I don't really care either way. It's popular to drive a prius and use the re-useable bags (I do the latter anyway) and its popular to make as much noise as you can so everyone knows you don't believe and aren't being fooled by the evil government. I'll wait until both sides are finished trying to tell the world they are right or until the wheels fall off the bandwagons (probably around the 12th of never) and then i'll weigh in.

Apologies if that remark offended, it wasn't meant to be taken that way. When it comes to religion I can be a little insensitive as it isn't something that I understand. When I have spoken to various religious people they normally express that their belief is an act of faith and requires no proof. I was only intending to say that some of the comments here seemed to mirror that act of faith and that they would be unlikely to change. Some of them seem to cling to a couple of isolated examples as why they believe climate change is a myth and ignore a vast amount of research that doesn't support their belief.

[xisled]

I think we all can do some thing to help with climate control, but end of the day big industry is the one that causes the most damage.

[xy500]

it really ****** me off when people drop lines like "scientists agree climate change is caused by humans..." what scientists? certainly not all of them, and certainly not a majority, only those that don't want to lose their jobs or political standing thanks to the over zealous following climate change has.
There is a Global carbon cycle, much like there is a water cycle. And we know so little about the global scale of carbon cycling that we are in no way able to make accurate predictions of what more human released carbon dioxide will do.

[xy500]

Originally Posted by xisled

I think we all can do some thing to help with climate control, but end of the day big industry is the one that causes the most damage.

did you even read the thread?

[Deco28]

Climate Change Is Real Now Give Me Lots Of Money To Research Nothing.

[mr ghia]

The original post in this thread is not new and has been debunked.
Another (unsigned?) right-wing-nutter rant.

[ltd]

Originally Posted by mr ghia

The original post in this thread is not new and has been debunked.
Another (unsigned?) right-wing-nutter rant.

Let me guess.
You've been banned from here before for being an over zealous ecotard and have come back with a new name?

[colinl]

Some of you guys come off as real zealots. You have said some emotive stuff, and as I stated, I don't know how much we have contributed to climate change. So here is your chance, convince me it isn't happening. Show me some peer reviewed research on it. Not just conspiracy theories, but credible research.

On a slightly different tangent. Do you believe that whatever we do to the land and sea, whatever we dump into the environment has absolutely no effect the world?

[snappy]

Originally Posted by colinl

Some of you guys come off as real zealots. You have said some emotive stuff, and as I stated, I don't know how much we have contributed to climate change. So here is your chance, convince me it isn't happening. Show me some peer reviewed research on it. Not just conspiracy theories, but credible research.

On a slightly different tangent. Do you believe that whatever we do to the land and sea, whatever we dump into the environment has absolutely no effect the world?

Whats that got to do with a emission trading scheme .Nothing when compainy's like BP,Shell and the U.S chamber of commerce are putting up there hand saying we need a emission trading scheme . Were in trouble or worse again they get Goldman and Sachs to come up with the scheme. Yeah because there main priority is to save the Planet .

An do you mean like the research that told us Australia wont see rain again like we have had in the past .

Or the research that told us Europe will never see snow again .


An how about showing peer reviewed research that doesn't benefit from a positive result on CC or that has not been involved in a scandal or one of there predictions that haven't been wrong yet.

But your right Climate Change is real jesus told me so

[Scott]

Originally Posted by colinl

So here is your chance, convince me it isn't happening. Show me some peer reviewed research on it. Not just conspiracy theories, but credible research.

OH WOW!!! A chance to prove myself to colinl!! My goodness, what a rare treat! Lucky am I.

Your idea, how about you "Show me some peer reviewed research on it. Not just conspiracy theories, but credible research".

Simple maths shows me enough to know that all the scientists, being paid by all the governments have developed a theory supported by money that supports an agenda to make more money.

For as long as reliable and scaled temperatures have been recorded, they have been going up. And down. But they are reaching higher highs in the snicket of data we have.

Real data has been collated for around 150 years. Scientists tell us that the world is 4,540,000,000 years old (that's 4.54 billion).

You tell me colinl, how reliable do you think a test sampling of 0.00000330% is, particularly when the people funding all this science have a bonafide interest in propagating the fear. Be it in cash, power or both.

For some perspective, if you wanted to ply the same maths identifying commonalities of every person on the face of the earth.

You could go to my local pub on a Thursday night where you will find 0.00000330% of the worlds population (227 people). You could accurately determine that the entire population of the earth is drunk and likes to pee alot.

If you did a really indepth study, you could determine that the entire population of the earth lives within 5km of my local pub, have an average age of 23 years, they all drive cars, all live in nice houses, are all employed, are all trying to pick-up, all swear, all wake up every day with a hangover and every single one of the drunken bums knows all the words to Flame Trees.

And with some certainty, none of them will die in the next 12 months.

Science is only right until it is proven wrong.... again and again. We'd be mugs to think that everything scientists tell us is true... how many incorrect "scientific facts" could we come up with if we tried?

93.9876875% of them to be precise.

[Turbo6FG]

Originally Posted by Scott

Real data has been collated for around 150 years. Scientists tell us that the world is 4,540,000,000 years old (that's 4.54 billion).

You tell me colinl, how reliable do you think a test sampling of 0.00000330% is, particularly when the people funding all this science have a bonafide interest in propagating the fear. Be it in cash, power or both.

For some perspective, if you wanted to ply the same maths identifying commonalities of every person on the face of the earth.

You could go to my local pub on a Thursday night where you will find 0.00000330% of the worlds population (227 people). You could accurately determine that the entire population of the earth is drunk and likes to pee alot.

The most sensible argument I've heard yet on 'climate change'

But wait! To all you fearful people who are worried about being swallowed up in clouds of cO2, I have news which I feel bound to pass on to you. A few weeks ago during a heavy drinking session friendly aliens came to me & told me climate change is an evil alien plot to distract us while they plan to take over Earth.
Go hide under your beds ecotards & let the sensible people deal with the issues. I'll tell you when it's safe to come out.

[irish2]

Originally Posted by colinl

Some of you guys come off as real zealots. You have said some emotive stuff, and as I stated, I don't know how much we have contributed to climate change. So here is your chance, convince me it isn't happening. Show me some peer reviewed research on it. Not just conspiracy theories, but credible research.

On a slightly different tangent. Do you believe that whatever we do to the land and sea, whatever we dump into the environment has absolutely no effect the world?

Maybe you should read the credible research from the 80's that said we were about to have an ice age. The first step to stop it was to put coal dust on the polar ice caps to melt them! It is easy to see there is a political agenda at play here. Carbon dioxide has been at much higher levels than now as evidenced by core samples of ice from millions of years ago showing 10%+ CO2.

[colinl]

Originally Posted by irish2

Maybe you should read the credible research from the 80's that said we were about to have an ice age. The first step to stop it was to put coal dust on the polar ice caps to melt them! It is easy to see there is a political agenda at play here. Carbon dioxide has been at much higher levels than now as evidenced by core samples of ice from millions of years ago showing 10%+ CO2.

I was around in the eighties, I can't say I ever heard of those reports or studies. I don't suppose you would have uni or research centre name that would help me track them down?