GM to split from Opel

Sprint XR8 · 28-02-2009, 11:38 AM

GM will keep a stake in Opel, but the German subsidiary will become a separate company.

Berlin, (CNN) -- General Motors' European division announced Friday that its German subsidiary, Opel cars, will become a separate company. GM will keep a stake in the new company.

Opel is asking for a more than $4 billion bailout from the governments of Germany and the other European countries that have Opel plants, GM Europe's CEO Carl-Peter Forster said at a news conference.

"We are in need of capital that we hope to get with the help of the public sector of about 3.3 billion euros," said Forster, who was speaking at Opel's main plant in Ruesselsheim, Germany. "With this aid, we believe that we can lead this company to a very profitable future."

The news was welcomed by the labor organization for Opel's employees, who had staged recent demonstrations demanding that GM's European brands sever their ties with the American parent company -- perhaps with governments taking a stake.

Forster said the company is talking to employee representatives about "how we can prevent redundancies and closing plants."

"No decisions to close plants or cut jobs have been made. We are trying to prevent that," Forster said. "But we do have cut costs substantially, by about $1.2 billion."

He also said that the new Opel company wants GM to remain a shareholder in the new company in order to have access to parts and new technological developments that can only be achieved in large companies.

GM currently sells more than half its vehicles outside of North America, but is facing losses in all of those markets.

Saab, Opel and Vauxhall are all GM brands that employ about 55,000 people across Europe. GM reported a net loss of more than $30 billion for the last year -- including a $9.6 billion net loss in the fourth quarter, a period in which its sales plunged and it needed a federal bailout to avoid filing for bankruptcy.

GM (GM, Fortune 500) also disclosed that it burned through $6.2 billion in cash during the last three months of the year. The company ended the quarter with cash of $14 billion.

If not for the $4 billion federal loan it received on Dec. 31, GM's cash level would have fallen below the $11 billion to $14 billion in cash the company has said it needs to continue operations.
http://money.cnn.com/2009/02/27/news...ion=2009022711

ea90gl · 28-02-2009, 12:08 PM

Jeez the bad news is like a snowball running downhill just keeps getting worse. Very interesting to see what happens to Holden in the coming months hopefully nothing too bad

Sprint XR8 · 28-02-2009, 12:35 PM

GM is decentralizing its global operations prior to bankruptcy. I see Holden being spun out similarly before March 31st.

Bossxr8 · 28-02-2009, 02:02 PM

Ford Europe has been going great guns for the past 5 years or so, making good profits, until the GFC I guess, don't know where they are now, but because of that its no suprise GM are is such a bad state if during the good years they couldn't make money in Europe. Europe has been a cash cow for Ford, so if GM can't make money there then they can't make money anywhere.

barbarian · 01-03-2009, 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Ford Europe has been going great guns for the past 5 years or so, making good profits, until the GFC I guess, don't know where they are now, but because of that its no suprise GM are is such a bad state if during the good years they couldn't make money in Europe. Europe has been a cash cow for Ford, so if GM can't make money there then they can't make money anywhere.

Opel sells plenty of cars in Europe, make no mistake

It is GM that robs them blind

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBB7ct9Rey0

Bossxr8 · 01-03-2009, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barbarian

Opel sells plenty of cars in Europe, make no mistake

It is GM that robs them blind

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBB7ct9Rey0

And GM sells plenty of cars in the US, but thats done them no favours has it. Doesn't matter if you sell hundreds of thousands if you still can't make money.

vztrt · 01-03-2009, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coupex

GM is decentralizing its global operations prior to bankruptcy. I see Holden being spun out similarly before March 31st.

This is where Allen Mullaly was lucky (and I think it was luck) that he sold off the companies that did not have the Ford badge on them as they would have been a huge liability but instead he got a cash flow up that will help them ride the GFC out. GM didn't and as well as losing buckets of cash they will not get anything from the companies as they will just cut ties with them and let them die.

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenfoam

The alloytec is made in Melbourne at Holdens engine plant they export crap loads of them including the turbo one saab use (used? since the are bankrupt?). I'm sure GM will still sell them the V8 if not bring on a new alloy version of the 304 I say

If Holden doesn't share technologies with GM then it'll be goodbye Holden.

Bud Bud · 02-03-2009, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coupex

GM is decentralizing its global operations prior to bankruptcy. I see Holden being spun out similarly before March 31st.

Maybe maybe not. It seems that that GM still holds Holden dear to its operations now and into the future. I wonder with all this reorganising on the world stage by GM which includes Opel, SAAB and may even mean a transfer of Buick to the Chinese, that Holden may remain as the sole OS GM survivor at the end of all of this. It makes sense because the new engine plant (which is one of only two of its type) is here, and Holden is directly attached to Pontiac (meaning less immediate extra investment to get a return) because of the VE. Also the drive trains are global unlike the Falcon I6.

Holden seem to be uniquely joined to the hip of GM where as the rest of their siblings do not. I know there is no guarantee but, if GM makes it then I think Holden’s future may also be assured as well.

I have high lighted the parts that I mean

Quote:

Holden's future bright despite weak markets :chairman

2/03/2009 - Car maker Holden still has a bright and prosperous future, despite facing some of the toughest trading conditions ever, chairman and managing director Mark Reuss says.

Reuss said Holden had a rich heritage because it had always strived to remain relevant to Australian motorists.

"It is one thing to have been relevant, but to remain relevant is the challenge," he said at the opening of the Melbourne Motor Show on Friday.

"Motorists still want comfort and reliability but also vehicles that are friendlier to the environment and, in these difficult economic times, offer value for money.

"In the past year this industry has witnessed some of the toughest and challenging market conditions ever.

"But I am confident today's actions will position us for a bright and prosperous future."

The chairman's comments came after Holden's parent company General Motors last week presented the US government with a survival plan which included the loss of 46,000 jobs worldwide.

The GM plan expected Holden to remain viable and to provide a substantial contribution to GM's recovery following the introduction of a new small car line in Adelaide in 2010.

But Holden officials said, in the meantime, the company was looking at every aspect of its operations and faced some tough decisions in the near future.

It has already scheduled a series of production cuts this year with workers on reduced earnings.

There has been no word yet on job cuts, but the company is likely to shed some assembly line and white collar positions.

South Australian Treasurer Kevin Foley said on Friday Holden deserved praise for keeping its Australian workforce largely intact in the face of the global economic downturn.

Foley said the car producer had shown a level of corporate responsibility not demonstrated at some other companies.
"Holden are holding their workforce together and intact to the best extent that they can," the treasurer told reporters.

"They are actually working with the unions involved to make sure the workers still have a job when some normality returns to this crazy world we're now living in."

Foley said Holden was highly regarded within GM's global operations.

"The Australian operations are profitable, innovative...it is one of the best offshore operations General Motors has anywhere in the world," he said.

Source: AAP NewsWire

Bossxr8 · 02-03-2009, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bud Bud

Maybe maybe not. It seems that that GM still holds Holden dear to its operations now and into the future. I wonder with all this reorganising on the world stage by GM which includes Opel, SAAB and may even mean a transfer of Buick to the Chinese, that Holden may remain as the sole OS GM survivor at the end of all of this. It makes sense because the new engine plant (which is one of only two of its type) is here, and Holden is directly attached to Pontiac (meaning less immediate extra investment to get a return) because of the VE. Also the drive trains are global unlike the Falcon I6.

Holden seem to be uniquely joined to the hip of GM where as the rest of their siblings do not. I know there is no guarantee but, if GM makes it then I think Holden’s future may also be assured as well.

I have high lighted the parts that I mean

Have to laugh at the quote where the Holden boss says they are profitable. Thats nothing but a blatant lie. They haven't made money for a few years.

Windsor220 · 02-03-2009, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Have to laugh at the quote where the Holden boss says they are profitable. Thats nothing but a blatant lie. They haven't made money for a few years.

Its funny because I was talking to a die hard Holden nut last week about the GM crisis. He told me that Holden is so profitable that they wont have anything to worry about. Then started to go on about how Australian they were..... I told him how they hadnt profited in years and he thought I didnt know what I was on about. Poor misguided fools.

Gobes32 · 02-03-2009, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torxteer

Poor misguided fools.

Most ardent Holden fans are.......... And they are blind to the facts.

Biggest difference between Ford and Holden fans, Ford fans think Ford are useless, their products are un-reliable and they are never going to buy a new one again.....but they do.

Holden fans on the other hand think everything Holden touches turns to gold and they are the most awesomest, bestest Aussie company ever.........

Sprint XR8 · 28-02-2009, 05:37 PM

DETROIT (WJRT) -- (02/27/09)--More changes could be on the way to General Motors Corp. Detroit's No. 1 automaker is looking to break ties with its German unit, Opel.
While GM says bankruptcy is a last resort, one analyst believes the automaker is behaving like it's already picked that option.
This may be happening on the other side of the world, but it really is beginning to shed some light in the United States about how deep GM's money troubles run.
Kettering University Prof. Dr. Andy Borchers says while GM has not filed for bankruptcy, it is making changes to its global operations as if it were.
GM's Swedish brand Saab filed for bankruptcy last week after its request for money from the Swedish government was denied.
A similar request was made to the German government. Now it has GM's German unit Opel looking to part ways with GM.
GM is already having major cash issues, and says it needs additional loans from the U.S. government -- about $16 billion to survive.
The automaker is hoping to make it without filing for bankruptcy.
Financial advisor Guy Moxam says the road ahead for GM won't be a smooth one. And if the automaker were to go the bankruptcy route it doesn't it'll be the end of the line.
"They'll go back in and reorganize every aspect of their business," he said.
But some believe it won't be long before GM has to decide which turn it will take.
"At some point they have to get either more cash or they are going to have to do bankruptcy and that point is coming soon," Borchers said.
GM is trying cut costs and make changes to beat a March 31 deadline to show the government it is improving so it will not have to utilize the bankruptcy option.
http://abclocal.go.com/wjrt/story?se...cal&id=6680539

XR6_190 · 28-02-2009, 06:38 PM

Not good, not good at all, I think might be next to get cut loose, if that happens, what will the future hold for Holden, will they still be licensed to sell other GM vehicles? or will the Commodore/ Statesman duo go it alone

Bossxr8 · 28-02-2009, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XR6_190

Not good, not good at all, I think might be next to get cut loose, if that happens, what will the future hold for Holden, will they still be licensed to sell other GM vehicles? or will the Commodore/ Statesman duo go it alone

If GM has disposed of Opel, what hope does Holden have of staying with them, considering they haven't made money in a few years?

vanman_75 · 28-02-2009, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XR6_190

Not good, not good at all, I think might be next to get cut loose, if that happens, what will the future hold for Holden, will they still be licensed to sell other GM vehicles? or will the Commodore/ Statesman duo go it alone

unfortunately the little 1s have been propped up by their parent company for years,also the first to go.
and holden would be very lucky if they were allowed to keep using gm parts,if this did happen.

**TUF_302** · 28-02-2009, 08:19 PM

Things are going to get bad for holden very soon i feel, with all the problems with its parent company i just cant see it missing some sort of fall out!

barbarian · 01-03-2009, 12:01 AM

| 27.02.2009 | 16:00 UTC
Opel to split from General Motors

German car-maker Opel is considering splitting from its struggling American parent company, General Motors. The head of GM Europe, Carl-Peter Forster, said he could imagine Opel becoming at least partly independent as a business unit. However, he added that it was important for Opel to remain a part of GM's European network of subsidiaries. The statements come a day after thousands of auto workers demonstrated at factories of GM subsidiaries in Europe, hoping to save their jobs. Opel reportedly needs at least 3.3 billion euros to survive. Chancellor Angela Merkel's coalition government has asked the company to come up with a viable business plan in return for state aid. GM's Swedish subsidiary, Saab, has already file for bankruptcy. General Motors has said it will cut thousands of jobs at its subsidiaries in Britain, Germany, Spain and Sweden as part of a restructuring program.

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/function/0...-1893-xml-atom

**ebxr8240** · 01-03-2009, 12:09 AM

Maybe Mark will buy Holden ?? Lol...

greenfoam · 01-03-2009, 01:33 AM

Opel make all the good stuff so they will be better off going it alone than being the life support for the dying giant. Hopefully Holden go the same way it will only be good for them in the long run

asusdragon · 01-03-2009, 01:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenfoam

Opel make all the good stuff so they will be better off going it alone than being the life support for the dying giant. Hopefully Holden go the same way it will only be good for them in the long run

however if Holden go it alone what will that do for engine in there commodore range, the V8 is a chev, and isnt there alloytec and import engine from america too??

greenfoam · 01-03-2009, 02:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asusdragon

however if Holden go it alone what will that do for engine in there commodore range, the V8 is a chev, and isnt there alloytec and import engine from america too??

The alloytec is made in Melbourne at Holdens engine plant they export crap loads of them including the turbo one saab use (used? since the are bankrupt?). I'm sure GM will still sell them the V8 if not bring on a new alloy version of the 304 I say

asusdragon · 01-03-2009, 02:11 AM

ah ok cheers for the info. shows how much i really know of the dark side lol. i knew there old 3.8L (well VN engine anyway) was an import engine and thought the new alloytec were too.

you would hope GM would still sell them the V8's but who knows. alloy version 304 well sounds interesting. On that though bout time Ford bring out a nice light V8 for the falcons............. yeah well we will see

dom_105 · 01-03-2009, 02:36 AM

If GM cut Holden loose, what does that mean for Holden exports? Would they have to compete with GM products?

greenfoam · 01-03-2009, 05:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asusdragon

ah ok cheers for the info. shows how much i really know of the dark side lol. i knew there old 3.8L (well VN engine anyway) was an import engine and thought the new alloytec were too.

you would hope GM would still sell them the V8's but who knows. alloy version 304 well sounds interesting. On that though bout time Ford bring out a nice light V8 for the falcons............. yeah well we will see

Yeah the VN motor was imported and installed just how it was in the FWD buicks, that's why the intake is back to front. The early preproduction VN's were running around with both the RB 30 and the V6 in them. They were hoping to get something with more grunt in the VN before it was released and the V6 only JUST made it in time so they were a bit of a rush job. Proven by the fact that you can drop an RB30 in there and the headers bolt up to the cat back exactly perfectly (The V6's Y pipe was a fudge at the last minute). I think the later motors series 2 VN onwards -- were at least partially assembled here.

That's all nothing to do with anything

but I'm sure it's no problem sourcing a good motor for a good price in the world today

Bossxr8 · 01-03-2009, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenfoam

Yeah the VN motor was imported and installed just how it was in the FWD buicks, that's why the intake is back to front. The early preproduction VN's were running around with both the RB 30 and the V6 in them. They were hoping to get something with more grunt in the VN before it was released and the V6 only JUST made it in time so they were a bit of a rush job. Proven by the fact that you can drop an RB30 in there and the headers bolt up to the cat back exactly perfectly (The V6's Y pipe was a fudge at the last minute). I think the later motors series 2 VN onwards -- were at least partially assembled here.

That's all nothing to do with anything

but I'm sure it's no problem sourcing a good motor for a good price in the world today

The VN motor was assembled here.

geckoGT · 02-03-2009, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenfoam

Yeah the VN motor was imported and installed just how it was in the FWD buicks, that's why the intake is back to front. The early preproduction VN's were running around with both the RB 30 and the V6 in them. They were hoping to get something with more grunt in the VN before it was released and the V6 only JUST made it in time so they were a bit of a rush job. Proven by the fact that you can drop an RB30 in there and the headers bolt up to the cat back exactly perfectly (The V6's Y pipe was a fudge at the last minute). I think the later motors series 2 VN onwards -- were at least partially assembled here.

That's all nothing to do with anything

but I'm sure it's no problem sourcing a good motor for a good price in the world today

I think you need to check your source, the Buick V6 was redesigned and modified to suit rear wheel drive as all the buick applications were FWD. The aussie version had better balance and smoothness as a result of the redesigned balance shaft that was used as well as a host of other changes. My old boss was one of the lead engineers that designed the aussie v6 and then later the kit for the Formula Holden racing class. When we used to complain about the V6, he used to always answer with "you think thats bad, you should see the yank version"

greenfoam · 02-03-2009, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geckoGT

I think you need to check your source, the Buick V6 was redesigned and modified to suit rear wheel drive as all the buick applications were FWD. The aussie version had better balance and smoothness as a result of the redesigned balance shaft that was used as well as a host of other changes. My old boss was one of the lead engineers that designed the aussie v6 and then later the kit for the Formula Holden racing class. When we used to complain about the V6, he used to always answer with "you think thats bad, you should see the yank version"

Only going off the American side of the story from some of the workers in the factory, they used to get on the Buick V6 forums a few years ago

Gobes32 · 01-03-2009, 03:12 PM

It will be an interesting 3 months for sure. And it seems that everyone has too many cars sitting in holding yards except for Ford.

Another interesting point, who would want to buy Holden? They have not been profitable for over three years, their main product is a polluting, fuel guzzling RWD sedan, a segment that is in decline and will be for a while yet. And the small sedan that is going to save their operations is actually a GM design, so if GM sell Holden then you can kiss that goodbye.........

Mind you, if they were purchased by a Chinese or Indian conglomerate, you might find that some cash would be made available to them to upgrade the plant and invest in new models?

Bill M · 01-03-2009, 03:35 PM

If GM spun off Holden you don't think there is a strong possibility of maintaining technical links? GM still stands to make a buck selling engines and other parts. If there was no forthcoming supply from GM in the US then Holden is dead in the water, I cannot see this happening in the short term.
Bill.

mr smith · 01-03-2009, 07:08 PM

Another interesting point, who would want to buy Holden? They have not been profitable for over three years, their main product is a polluting, fuel guzzling RWD sedan, a segment that is in decline and will be for a while yet.

I get to drive most new cars on the market, and while I like the look of the VE it is a very poorly built car, even non car heads at work comment on the poor interior and general cheapness of the build. They are in big trouble.