Victorian Road Toll - 2023 Worst year for road deaths since 2008

[Franco Cozzo]

Worst year for road deaths since 2008 as COVID habits wreak havoc

Fitzharris said Victoria needed highly visible police enforcement to correct dangerous behaviour in the short term, and bipartisan political support to lower speed limits on dangerous country roads from 100km/h to 80km/h, to give motorists a chance to survive head-on collisions.

“If you don’t have physical separation between oncoming traffic, and trees, the road should not be 100km/h – it’s as simple as that,” he said.

“The government has a strong commitment to rolling out barriers and improving infrastructure. But in the absence of being able to spend a massive, impossible amount of money, it’s more cost-effective for us to match the speed limit to the environment.”

https://www.theage.com.au/national/v...29-p5eu88.html

Post COVID it seems everyone is hyper aggro on the roads and super aggressive.

More speed limit reductions about to happen, I had a right laugh at the new Sunbury Road duplication.

Used to be a single lane country highway goat track with no lighting, with a 100km/h speed limit

Now its dual lane, divided, with emergency lanes and safety barriers, with lighting, and now the speed limit is 60km/h and may go up to 80km/h.

I think they still don't understand the issues, they keep blaming speed but most people can't drive for **** and no one cares because they don't enforce any standards other than camera fines for speeding.

Have just come back from spending a few days on the road in Sydney, they had a lot bigger visible presence of police, although a huge fetish for cameras in the outer Western suburbs, more-so than Melbourne.

The biggest issue on the Hume Freeway was other Victorians driving like retards doing rolling road blocks and ACT plated cars punch above their weight for **** driving per capita I reckon - they have to be the worst drivers in the country.

I had cruise control set on 113-117 by GPS and was constantly held up by Victorians or ACT drivers in the right lane. The best one was in Kilmore someone doing 25 in the 40 zone through town,

Standard of driving in Sydney is certainly much better than Melbourne, people move off from lights quicker and are generally much quicker on the roads, I enjoyed my time driving around their suburbia and into the city.

[Adamz Ghia]

The state of our roads wouldn’t help.

Our population has also increased by around 1.5 million people since 2008, 5.3m to 6.8m last year. Per million people, 2008 saw 57 deaths per million people, last year saw 44.

Still too many. But the headline number is just that, a headline.

I noticed the reasons given were intoxication, seat belts and fatigue. Yet the government is going to review speed limits. Why not make the penalties for not wearing seat belts and drink driving so harsh people won’t dare to do it? Same with mobile phones. Don’t half **** it, actually punish people properly for doing it. A four figure fine or some gaol time is better than someone dying.

[Tonz]

Originally Posted by Adamz Ghia

The state of our roads wouldn’t help.

I noticed the reasons given were intoxication, seat belts and fatigue. Yet the government is going to review speed limits. Why not make the penalties for not wearing seat belts and drink driving so harsh people won’t dare to do it? Same with mobile phones. Don’t half **** it, actually punish people properly for doing it. A four figure fine or some gaol time is better than someone dying.

totally agree, instead of a maximum fine make it a fine thats going to hurt and not paid off in installments.
Second offence...whatever that is mandatory disposal of car you are driving.

Owners of cars also should get a rebate for serious anti theif measures. the old steering wheel bar comes to mind.

[Citroënbender]

All of those things only work with honest criminals.

But are the people who are often negatively depicted on DCOA really the consistent progenitors of that higher road toll? What if they aren’t, and further nannying laws don’t bring about the hoped-for changes?

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Adamz Ghia

The state of our roads wouldn’t help.

Our population has also increased by around 1.5 million people since 2008, 5.3m to 6.8m last year. Per million people, 2008 saw 57 deaths per million people, last year saw 44.

Still too many. But the headline number is just that, a headline.

I noticed the reasons given were intoxication, seat belts and fatigue. Yet the government is going to review speed limits. Why not make the penalties for not wearing seat belts and drink driving so harsh people won’t dare to do it? Same with mobile phones. Don’t half **** it, actually punish people properly for doing it. A four figure fine or some gaol time is better than someone dying.

Because you can easily police speed limits with cameras, and it makes money.

Where as you can't police driver intoxication with cameras, you need police on the side of the road to do it.

They also want to price fines in a way that they're not too prohibitive that people won't consider doing them, if they're on the lower end of the spectrum you'll still run the gauntlet on these behaviors because the disincentive isn't enough.

Whats the fine for driving on the phone in VIC? $545 and 4 points, its not enough that you wouldn't bother doing it, so they can still make money on people doing it as they haven't disincentivised it too much like QLD has with their $1000 fine.

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by Adamz Ghia

The state of our roads wouldn’t help.

Our population has also increased by around 1.5 million people since 2008, 5.3m to 6.8m last year. Per million people, 2008 saw 57 deaths per million people, last year saw 44.

Still too many. But the headline number is just that, a headline.

I noticed the reasons given were intoxication, seat belts and fatigue. Yet the government is going to review speed limits. Why not make the penalties for not wearing seat belts and drink driving so harsh people won’t dare to do it? Same with mobile phones. Don’t half **** it, actually punish people properly for doing it. A four figure fine or some gaol time is better than someone dying.

people need to drive to the conditions, have patience, not drive with fatigue, pay attention and not **** about with technology

The weak link in the road toll is the people

[Citroënbender]

The weak link in the road toll is the people

True, but are harsher laws actually going to change that? I can’t see it making much difference to people who habitually drive unlicensed and have no great respect for the rules generally. If they are significant contributors to the road toll (whether by killing themselves or causing deaths of others) then the law-making approach is doomed to failure.

(Personally I would go for irreversible surgical sterilisation; of convicted offenders 16+, or their legal guardians if under 16. The UN and their ineffectual human rights nonsense can nick off.)

[roKWiz]

Get all those old cars off the road, they are obviously causing all this mayhem.

[jaydee]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

Get all those old cars off the road, they are obviously causing all this mayhem.

And trucks

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

Get all those old cars off the road, they are obviously causing all this mayhem.

I really hope you are being sarcastic?

There is constant pressure in Victoria from auto industry bodies that Victoria should have annual roadworthies. NSW does and they had a higher road toll last year than Victoria with bsically the same population numbers.

The auto industry bodies (VACC & RACV) are just trying to drum up business for their members, there is not statistical reason to have annual roadworthies.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

True, but are harsher laws actually going to change that? I can’t see it making much difference to people who habitually drive unlicensed and have no great respect for the rules generally. If they are significant contributors to the road toll (whether by killing themselves or causing deaths of others) then the law-making approach is doomed to failure.

Agree. Stricter rules only affect those who already do the right thing.

Bringing in additional rules is pointless if you are trying to punish those who break the rules.

[prydey]

Many of these threads the topic often turns to driving standards and then to current licensing.

Well, I do my fair share of driving around as well and from what I see, is not the young kids driving like idiots or disregarding road rules etc...

90% of failure to indicate would be older people... Impatience and lack of tolerance is also largely exhibited by those more experienced.

I think the younger crowd get singled out unfairly. I don't think feature any more or less than any other age group. And it's certainly not easier to get your licence now. My old man drove to the cop shop, drove the cop around the block and got given his licence. Many of his era tell similar stories.

[Walt Kowalski]

Danistan rushed exodous?

[russellw]

Originally Posted by Adamz Ghia

Our population has also increased by around 1.5 million people since 2008, 5.3m to 6.8m last year. Per million people, 2008 saw 57 deaths per million people, last year saw 44.

The Victorian death rate per 100k people for 2023 is 4.345 but it was only 3.650 in 2022; 3.528 in 2021 and 3.190 in 2020 although it was higher in 2016 at 4.693. Mind you, it was over 30 in 1970. To put that in real numbers, if the 2022 rate had even just been maintained (3.650) we would have recorded 47 less deaths in 2023 while if the 2021 rate of 3.528 had been maintained that would have been another 9 less.

A closer look at the data set shows there were 3 less cyclists killed in 2023 compared to 2022; 6 less motorcyclists; the same number of pedestrians; 29 more drivers and
37 more passengers. Here are those numbers graphed since 2000...



Likewise, the rate per 100k vehicles has been on the rise again these last few years after largely falling for 60 years from a peak of 13.074 in 1951 down to 0.412 in 2020 but back up to 4.345 in 2023.

[Citroënbender]

Some of those figures are an interesting counterpoint to Queensland statistics, especially motorbike fatalities. The most recent (at time of my posting) QLD summary I could find is this one: https://cars.tmr.qld.gov.au/Static/d...ort_Latest.pdf - remarkably neutral in tone.

[lra]

The road toll will not decrease to zero until the speed limits are reduced to zero, and the most exciting driving we can do is sit in the car making VroomVroom noises with our mouth, while looking at our garage walls as scenery.

People will continue to drive at a speed higher than road conditions allow, while texting, not wearing seat belts, while under the influence of drugs and alcohol, walk on roads at night wearing black clothes, walk onto a busy road while reading their phone, go swimming when they can't swim, take selfies in unsafe positions, consume questionable drugs at rave parties, etc ............

The common result of stupidity is death or injury. But nobody learns until it is them, and too late.

[T3rminator]

Wait for the people with the data to run the analysis before jumping to conclusions. Have heard some interesting theories to date, ranging from:

• People are driving bigger carstrucks that they are incapable for handling
• Covid has affected some people's motor skills
• Immigrants fresh off the boat not knowing the rules or how to drive to our conditions

etc etc....

2023 could very well just be a statistical anomoly. Were more people doing more KMs than previous years? If I remember correctly, there were quite a few accidents that involved multiple fatalities last year aswell.

[simon varley]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

2023 could very well just be a statistical anomoly.

subjectively - no. I see proportionately more idiots on the roads now than ever before.

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by simon varley

subjectively - no. I see proportionately more idiots on the roads now than ever before.

Simon, are you ready for a shock . . . . . . . . . . I agree with you

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

Simon, are you ready for a shock . . . . . . . . . . I agree with you

Post COVID road rage and hyper aggressive driving is off the charts I reckon, especially around Melbourne.

Its like there's something in the water causing people to drive like mongs

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Post COVID road rage and hyper aggressive driving is off the charts I reckon, especially around Melbourne.

Its like there's something in the water causing people to drive like mongs

The place is ungovernable. Lord Humungous waits in the wings.

[simon varley]

the single minded focus on speed is imo a significant factor in this. people have been conditioned to believe that as long as they are under the limit they are safe, regardless of their other behaviours.

secondly - infrastructure. Not just the state of the roads, but also the state of the roadside furniture, and greenery. I don't know about the rest of you, but half the signs here are overgrown, and it's near impossible to see when pulling out of some junctions

I am also gobsmacked by how many people STILL don't wear seatbelts!

[Itsme]

Have you ever noticed how learner drivers are being taught these days by idiotic instructors, one more reason for increased road tolls.
More police presence will certainly help reduce it.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Itsme

Have you ever noticed how learner drivers are being taught these days by idiotic instructors, one more reason for increased road tolls.
More police presence will certainly help reduce it.

Yes, their parents.

Trevor, deadly serious.

[simon varley]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

Yes, their parents.

Trevor, deadly serious.

it's not so much the paid instruction, but 120 hours, while it may seem a good idea, is absolutely reliant on those 120 hours being with a decent supervising driver. There is anecdotal evidence that many Learners spend 120 hours doing the same route to school and the shops every week, and not getting the experience of different conditions they really need.

[tbro4123]

Why not make the penalties for not wearing seat belts and drink driving so harsh people won’t dare to do it?


Coming back down the goat track (Bruce Hwy) this arvo, signs Wear your seatbelt properly, fine for failing to wear seatbelt or wear it properly $1621 + 4 points.




Funny but I feel naked without one, KINKY!!!!!!!


And can you Vics please come and collect your bloody citizens from up here, They scare me!!!




Terry

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by simon varley

it's not so much the paid instruction, but 120 hours, while it may seem a good idea, is absolutely reliant on those 120 hours being with a decent supervising driver. There is anecdotal evidence that many Learners spend 120 hours doing the same route to school and the shops every week, and not getting the experience of different conditions they really need.

I did 200 hours driving on the same stretch of country highway, first time I ever saw traffic lights was in my licence test.

I'm the living example of what you're talking about

[383hq]

Originally Posted by simon varley

it's not so much the paid instruction, but 120 hours, while it may seem a good idea, is absolutely reliant on those 120 hours being with a decent supervising driver. There is anecdotal evidence that many Learners spend 120 hours doing the same route to school and the shops every week, and not getting the experience of different conditions they really need.

120 Hrs?

You are solo in a plane after 7-20 hours of dual instruction.
(although much fewer ****heads up there)

That's dumber then loosing your newly acquired P license in SA if caught doing 110 in a 110 zone twice in 2-3 years..

I'd have the kid "drive" Melbourne to Darwin and back if its 120 hrs in a log book.

Its the mobile phone attention that worries me, not lots of log book time.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by simon varley

it's not so much the paid instruction, but 120 hours, while it may seem a good idea, is absolutely reliant on those 120 hours being with a decent supervising driver. There is anecdotal evidence that many Learners spend 120 hours doing the same route to school and the shops every week, and not getting the experience of different conditions they really need.

Agreed 100%.
It is absurd that learners are able to 'learn' their parents bad habits for 100odd hours before they are required to be shown the correct methods of car control by a licensed instructor that'll have them for less than a 10th of that time.
It could and should be the other way round but that would require common sense applied.
Infact I'd suggest that if a learner who undertakes say 10hrs with an instructor prior to commencing the balance of their hours with a friend/relative goes on to fail the test it shows they didnt take on board or continue to practice those correct methods and dont deserve to drive until they do.

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Agreed 100%.
It is absurd that learners are able to 'learn' their parents bad habits for 100odd hours before they are required to be shown the correct methods of car control by a licensed instructor that'll have them for less than a 10th of that time.
It could and should be the other way round but that would require common sense applied.
Infact I'd suggest that if a learner who undertakes say 10hrs with an instructor prior to commencing the balance of their hours with a friend/relative goes on to fail the test it shows they didnt take on board or continue to practice those correct methods and dont deserve to drive until they do.

After being an insider for 13 years as part of licensing regime, VicRoads was never in favour of 'forced learning', although they did mandate it for a while but backed down when pressure was exerted from external forces

I can't comment on other States