Who's an engineer?

[Coogs289]

I've just completed my work experience where I was amongst civil engineers. I thoroughly enjoyed it and am now considering becoming an engineer of some sort.
I've done a bit of research and so far, civil and mechanical sound good...
Is anybody here an engineer? If so, what type? What sort of things do you do?

Cheers, Anthony

[Coogs289]

Just started researching again, an automotive engineer sounds pretty good... :

[Ohio XB]

Whatever engineer you decide to become, PLEASE work in that field as well. It is one thing to learn about something, it is quite different to have performed and executed the things you learn about.

For example, an automotive engineer should really have done some work on many cars; repairs, modify, customize, rebuild. You get a far better understanding this way than just book theory.

This is based on my experience working with many engineers. You will be the best engineer if you get your hands dirty too.



Steve

[redtoad236]

Ginger beers is what we call them in my industry. Not many have any hands on skills and its all from a book that been hashed and re hashed. I am in no way an engineer but on siter i get to modify what the design guys do. Just to make it work on site. And by no mean is this being harsh to any of them. 75% of the ones i know of can not do there job. The others are bloody good at it but there far and few between. Get your hands dirty and get with the guys on the floor. They no more and do a great job which in turn props up engineers.

[Powdered Toast Man]

I'm a mechanical engineer and I actually agree somewhat with Ohio XB and redtoad236. I am one of the no real practical experience engineer's they are talking about. You do get experience the longer you work, but unfortunately nowadays there is very little in the way of mentoring and on the job training for engineers like there was back in the 50's and 60's in the large government corporations like gas and fuel, electricity and water. They are all privately owned now and don't have any further training included in their employment.

I started in my current job drawing products I knew nothing about including how they actually worked. I am now head of design for these products but haven't done any "real" engineering development on them, just implemented learnt experiences over the years to improve them. I recieved practacally no training whatsoever apart from makig mistakes and asking questions over the many years.

Now back to the OPs questions; I work in production / product design designing earthmoving attachments. This has to take into account both design for purpose and design for manufacture. I also have some production management responsibilities like production scheduling between 2 factories including, liasing with managerial and sales staff inside the company and our customers as well as other issues like controlling and allocating stock etc.

I became an engineer to get into the automotive industry. But be aware that most mechanical engineers have the same idea and as such the automotive industry gets it's pick of the top of the crop. You will really need to work hard and get good results in your degree. Of course having some nous in the field will help employment opportunities.

An engineering degree is very theroetical and contains a lot of advanced maths and physics so be prepared to be bamboozled. A diploma course is a bit more practical if you want to go that way. Not trying to scare you off lol.

If you have any questions feel free to PM me. There are a few more engineers on here so I'm sure you will get some more responses.

[Raptor]

Originally Posted by Powdered Toast Man

I'm a mechanical engineer and I actually agree somewhat with Ohio XB and redtoad236. I am one of the no real practical experience engineer's they are talking about.....

Yep me too (also a Mech Eng) and agree with PTM and the others.
I shoulda tried for Auto Eng but in the wrong location, does that sound like a cop-out :

I work in the steel industry in Australia but have done very little real engineering since gaining my degree and no longer work directly in an engineering field.

Make your choice;

Fast track career potential and earnings capability - get a degree straight out of school and pick up whatever practical experience you can along the way. You'll probably end up in an office in a related field or some type of management position where your lack of real experience can frustrate those that you will now have authority over.

OR

Take the longer route through trade/diploma/degree to REALLY understand what your doing and the practical application of your specialty. You'll likely end up a much better engineer who is respected by both peers and subordinates, BUT you will have struggled more in the dirt/dust/grease/BS and won't have been paid as well as early, if ever.

The systems screwed - just accept that and make your call.

[alter_EGOXR]

im currently studying civil engineering...and agreed with powdered toast man, theres quite alot of math involved..i wanted to pursue a mechanical engineering degree, but after seeing how much physics was involved, i backed off....at the end of the day, do something you really enjoy, remember its what you will be doing day in day out for the next 40 years or so....

[Allen]

I've got my advanced diploma in mechanical engineering, and have been working as a design draftsman for about 3 years.

It is quite frustrating as I do very little engineering/design work compared to the amount of sales/admin/management work that I do.
Occasionally I'll have the opportunity to get away from the desk and do some machining and assembly of some of the things that I have designed, which is a real buzz.

If you do end up going through with engineering, be prepared to have to deal with plenty of incompetent know everything 'engineers'. I just spent 30 minutes on the phone explaining to an electrical engineer what an isolator does! :P

Civil engineering is a good field, there always seems to be plenty of civil positions available compared to mechanical...
I'm considering going back to TAFE at night to get a Diploma in building design and drafting, as I'm already halfway there with the drafting stuff...

[sgt_doofey]

Software engineer?

[hawke]

I started as a Mechanical Engineer in the dark ages when calculations were done with Slide Rules - and worked in the mantainance and repair areas of Government Departments with Earthmoving and mining Equipment.

This led through to working with international companies in their service areas, and I got see much of Australia and the World, with someone else paying. However, this was often limited to a mine site in the middle of nowhere. Good if single and liked beer, not so otherwise.

A change of direction and desire to wear a tie and suit, saw a move into insurance, involving insuring all sort of technical things, from earthmoving equipment to nuclear power stations and space satellites.

Engineering discipline gives you a great grounding in business and quality systems, so you can use those skills in business, and this then saw a move into management and academia, and travel at someone else's expense, to more attractive parts of the world.

The end result for me - at least - is that engineering set me up for life. My wife and I have put our boy through a good schooling, the house is paid off, I have more cars than drive at once, retirement is looking comfortable, I got to the peak of my profession, and now sit on various professional committees and boards. Life can be good.

Remember - Engineers make things happen.

[bob^]

I did an Advance Diploma of Electronic Engineering before commencing my electronic engineering degree and would recommend it to anyone to do the same way.
I started a Mechetronics Engineering degree straight out of high school and I hated every minute of it. I was bombarded with theory and didn't get to do anything practical. I found out later in life that I learn best by learning the theory behind something, and then immediately putting it into place.
The 2 year tafe course taught me all the hands on stuff allowing me to do well in the engineering degree.
I am also learning a trade (electrician) at the same time in a very large factory, so I get real world industrial experience also.
Be prepared for lots of useless classes at uni that you will never need to use.

I'm starting to sway more to the idea of sticking with my trade as the money is potentially better IMO when you compare it to the stress levels and hours needed to be put in.

[egosfast]

I started as a Mechanical Engineer in the dark ages when calculations were done with Slide Rules.

I remember Slide Rules and Log Tables - never had to worry about flat batteries.
Things look better the further in the past they are.

[ZA-289]

My missus is a biomedical engineer, and overqualified for almost every job on offer in SA, just make sure you can actually GET the job your qualified without having to move interstate.

[Wally]

Did a concurrent apprenticeship while doing electrical engineering. Branched out into mechanical too. Back to school in late 80s to do marketing and law. The trick is to find a profession that ensures enough income for beer.

Trouble with most engineers is they either become consultants who have no idea the anxiety they cause contractors/workers or worse still, become managers with zip entrepreneurial skills: the best managers seem to be the worst engineers.

egosfast I'm with you brother.

[saber]

I've just finished my Electrical Engineering degree (finished at the end of last year) and now work as a consultant. The thing I hate most about consulting is there is little to no "hands on field work". You sit in an office all day; Excel and CAD programs are your tools of trade.

If your an active person, who enjoys working with their hands, I wouldn't recommend consulting. You'll spend too much time indoors, and have little to no field experience.

I was thinking of getting out of consulting, and joining up with an Oil/Gas company, eg Schlumberger, Halliburton ect ect. Does anybody have any experience with these types of companies?

[KPOJ]

I have no degrees yet but i build race cars, lots of design work and i love it.

Math is a very important prerequisite. Good luck with the career

[partie]

I have a degree in Mechanical Engineering and I am currently working in the manufacturing industry.

Personally, I would steer away from becoming an automotive engineer for the following three reasons:
1 - Don’t make your hobby your work.
2 - The automotive engineering degree is very restrictive in terms of career path
3 - The automotive industry is not very secure in Australia. Manufacturing in general is moving overseas.

From my personal experience, the Engineering degree does not necessarily equip you with sound technical knowledge but rather an approach to problem solving. This is expected since the job requirement changes with each different company.

It is not expected that engineers have good practical skills but depending on the career path you choose, it is expected you develop good management and communication skills.

Regardless of the dicipline, there are generally two types of engineering roles: general and technical. The general engineering role is more focused on problems involving management rather than technical problems.

If I was in your position, I would look into a commerce/engineering degree.

[baboon]

Good luck to whatever you do. I did an electrical/electronic engineering degree and I really felt it was a waste of time and money. This is my opinion only and you will probably find an engineering degree a great thing. What it lacked was the amount of practical experience you get. In the 4 years it took to complete it was only a requirement to get 12 weeks experience. What was also a pain was seeing your friends doing the down and dirty work getting hands on experience, education and getting paid! Alls I got was 4 years of theory and $20 000 debt. Not a good feeling.

I suppose what it did give you after I graduated was the will to catch up to your mates and to try to pay off that nasty debt as quick as possible. You'd plan, budget and engineer your life and get into a place of your own with the most efficiency.

I did learn that its not only what you know but who you know that was important. Seeing as you liked the engineers you did work experience with, Id say get to know some of them and try to show them some interest in their companies. There might be an avenue there to get into the field by doing small jobs for them and maybe gaining employment of some sort. Get that foot in the door and then work your way up from there. Work hard and become a valuable asset to them. Going down this path you'll learn heaps, and most likely get paid, and eventually get paid well.

Again, good luck with whatever you do and enjoy yourself!

[Ohio XB]

I've read all the posts and there has been a LOT of great insight and information. For the Engineers that said "I don't have hands on experience, I didn't know about what I was designing..." I have got to hand it to you guys for being so blunt. Not so many people admit their short comings to themselves, yet alone a bunch of others. Its a very good character trait and enables you to start improving on whatever the shortcoming is.


My problem is that I have worked with too many Engineers that could not do that. They felt they had a pretty piece of paper on the wall that proved they knew what they were talking about, no matter how wrong they were. Nobody can know everything and if you can't admit to yourself that there is something you don't know you will never be able to accomplish it.

As for me, being a Toolmaker, I had many tools, apperatus, and repaired and improved machines working on the line to prove I knew what I was doing. I feel they had a little more weight than a piece of paper. So do I know it all? Heck no, but I know which things I don't know when I come to them, and how to get the information or help to learn about them.

I have worked with 2 really good engineers, one of whom I couldn't wait to work with whenever I had the chance. A really sharp engineer that knows his stuff is an amazing person. I give them all the respect in the world and we work great together. What can be accompolished is mind blowing. It just so happens this Engineer used to program and run CNC's before he was an Engineer, so his hands were dirty and he had been there and done that. He understood my position exactly and he knew my world.



Steve

[Powdered Toast Man]

Originally Posted by Ohio XB

I've read all the posts and there has been a LOT of great insight and information. For the Engineers that said "I don't have hands on experience, I didn't know about what I was designing..." I have got to hand it to you guys for being so blunt. Not so many people admit their short comings to themselves, yet alone a bunch of others. Its a very good character trait and enables you to start improving on whatever the shortcoming is.

Thats the advantage of internet anonymity :evil_laug

But really there is no point sticking your head in the sand. Just get on with learning how to do your job if you dont know how to do it. Well thats how I see it anyway.

It's guys like you Steve that I have great respect for. I might have the tertiary qualifications but it's the workshop guys with experience that really know what they are doing. They are an engineer's greatest resource IMO.

I've worked with a couple of engineers/draftsman that started off as a hands on tradie or had good hands on experience and am sometimes in awe of their know how.

Well thats enough smoke blowing

[Ohio XB]

Originally Posted by Powdered Toast Man

Thats the advantage of internet anonymity :evil_laug

But really there is no point sticking your head in the sand. Just get on with learning how to do your job if you dont know how to do it. Well thats how I see it anyway.

It's guys like you Steve that I have great respect for. I might have the tertiary qualifications but it's the workshop guys with experience that really know what they are doing. They are an engineer's greatest resource IMO.

I've worked with a couple of engineers/draftsman that started off as a hands on tradie or had good hands on experience and am sometimes in awe of their know how.

Well thats enough smoke blowing

I agree. But thanks. I appreciate your candor.


Steve

[Wally]

Steve, it's not intentional on engineer's behalf. Most wander around doing calcs and problem solving in their heads, so they come across as arrogant, when in fact they are only semi conscious to what's going on around them. When confronted with a them and us attitude they are more than likely to play the power game.

Powdered Toast Man, One of my standout friends is a civil engineer (3 parts gravel, two part sand, one part cement). He was the council's engineer in charge, had a solid carreer path, but just couldn't enjoy himself, so he started a building company, donned a pair of stubbies and thoroughly likes getting up in the morning. I guess it's a matter of making your own future, not living up to the cliched expectations of a wax seal on a parchment.

[JamesR]

i finished my apprenticeship as a Fitter/CNC Machinist last year, and have been really thinking about doing a Diploma. Advanced Diploma in Engineering, the only thing really holding me back is work, just cant afford to not work at the moment.

[GTpilot]

Plenty of good advice and wise words.
However, This does not just apply to engineering.
There will always be that gap between the guy on the floor that weilds the spanner and the one in the office that holds the pen. Unless you have experienced both. No matter what trade or profession you are in. the ones that excel are those that have experience with both.

It's all about "marketable skill". The more you have, the more you are worth.

I work in IT as a systems architect, I started in electronics 18yrs ago and have moved up through the ranks to where I am today. There is not much in IT that I have not seen or delt with. Home users through to Large Enterprise.

It never ceases to amuse me the noobs straight out of uni or the latest excom course that believe that know everything, and fail to listen to those that actually do.
It used to annoy me, now I just like to sit back and wait for them to come running with their tails between their legs.

My advise to you is be patient, even if you go get a uni degree. Do as almost everyone else has mentioned, Spend some years on the shop floor earning lower wages to really learn about, and gain 'Hands on' experience in your profession. The greater rewards will flow in later once you have the knowledge, skill AND experience. You will be the Company guru and you WILL get the big bucks.

[stockel]

When I was studying the electronic eng degree the other students used to ask me "how come you know more than the teacher?!".

We were in labs being run by post grads who had only studied where as I had done the apprenticeship then adv dip then degree, I used to end up running most of the labs for certain subjects.

FIGJAM, but seriously hands on experience is invaluable as mentioned.

[uranium_death]

My old man was a civil engineer who spent years working in drainage for the old Metropolitan Board of Works. Dry stuff.

However, a friend of mine completed a Double Degree in Science (Physics?) and Electrical Engineering.

He said that Science was WAY better to learn, but once you pass the dryness of the first couple of years of Engineering where it's all theory with little actual 'real life' application, engineering becomes very rewarding. You already have some experience in one way or another, so that will help you, as has been previously mentioned already.

[Ohio XB]

I hope when it comes to actually getting a job based on experience that it is more valued there in Australia than it is here.

A couple years ago I went out to see how "marketable" I am. Besides other past experience I have I've also got 12 years experience in the trades, perform work beyond my job descrption (problem solve, engineer, reverse engineer, design, etc.) but I could not get a job doing what I've been doing. I can get a job at half my pay running machines in a machine shop but I am not qualified to do what I am doing without a piece of paper that says I learned about it 20 years ago, never mind I have been doing it for the past 10 or so.


Steve

[Wally]

Originally Posted by Ohio XB

I hope when it comes to actually getting a job based on experience that it is more valued there in Australia than it is here.

A couple years ago I went out to see how "marketable" I am. Besides other past experience I have I've also got 12 years experience in the trades, perform work beyond my job descrption (problem solve, engineer, reverse engineer, design, etc.) but I could not get a job doing what I've been doing. I can get a job at half my pay running machines in a machine shop but I am not qualified to do what I am doing without a piece of paper that says I learned about it 20 years ago, never mind I have been doing it for the past 10 or so.


Steve

No it's the same across the globe. Trade qualifications and experience are not considered equal to tertiary qualifications. Engineering here is a professional qualification that is issued under chartered rules and as such failry strict guidelines are observed for compliance. No matter that a 95 yearold engineer who went to engineering school when electricty had just been discovered and probably knew less then than a tradesman does now, he's still a professional, so long as he keeps his subscription up.

You may be better looking at enrolling in an associate engineering course and using any grandfather clauses that would give you exemptions to subjects based on practical industry experience.

[xbgs351]

When I studied Mechanical Engineering, the dux of my year was a mature age student who prior to commencing study was a motor mechanic and a tyre fitter. Out of uni, he worked at Ford.

Personally I would avoid anything to do with the automotive industry. I have worked at two automotive parts manufacturers and both no longer exist. Mitsubishi has closed as have a host of suppliers and I don't see the trend changing anytime soon.

One of the downsides to Mechanical Engineering is that it can be very difficult to find work outside of the mining industry or capital cities. I wanted to live in regional Australia which has essentially forced me out of engineering. I now manage a small business and service complex medical equipment for a living. If I was to do it all again I would do civil engineering as you can get work doing civil just about anywhere and as the employers are often local government or water boards the conditions are pretty good.

If you where to study engineering here are a few other observations that I have made over the years.
-2 out of 3 won't complete the course.
-You won't have to write essays.
-It will completely change the way you think about things.
-You will probably become a manager of some sort, usually a project manager.
-You will marry either another engineer or a doctor.

[Sapper]

Originally Posted by xbgs351

If you where to study engineering here are a few other observations that I have made over the years.
-2 out of 3 won't complete the course.
-You won't have to write essays.
-It will completely change the way you think about things.
-You will probably become a manager of some sort, usually a project manager.
-You will marry either another engineer or a doctor.

One slight correction to that....I'm just about to finish a Mechanical Engineering Degree and I have to mention that point 2 is no longer the case. Engineering courses now have to have "communication" and "sustainability" subjects in which you have to write essays on meaningless drivel. That said, points one and three are spot on. I'll let you know about 4 and 5 in a few years but no real objections there.