No offers? Firm? WTF?

[P6LTD351]

I'm in the market for a second hand car and I come across many ads that say No offers or $10000 FIRM etc. I'm always perplexed by these statements. I, like many, want to know I've got a bargain or a good price and always like to think I could knock off at least a couple of hundred off an advertised price. With these ads of no offers etc, it really turns me off. I'd rather the person advertise for $10500 if he really wants $10000. Even though I end up paying the same amount, I FEEL like I have achieved something by knocking off $500. I just think 'no offers' and 'firm' wreak of arrogance. Would these people pay full retail when buying a new car? Thoughts?

[Buttnekid]

i think if the person has priced it appropriately instead of inflating so your ego can feel pampered that your supreme negotiation skills have accomplished something for you to feel warm and fuzzy, then that is the seller's perogative.

In other words, they have priced it as what their bottom line so if you dont want to pay that amount, dont waste their time.

in saying that, most people will sometime budge even though they have written 'firm' or 'no offers'

[P6LTD351]

Originally Posted by Buttnekid

i think if the person has priced it appropriately instead of inflating so your ego can feel pampered that your supreme negotiation skills have accomplished something for you to feel warm and fuzzy, then that is the seller's perogative.

In other words, they have priced it as what their bottom line so if you dont want to pay that amount, dont waste their time.

in saying that, most people will sometime budge even though they have written 'firm' or 'no offers'

So if most will budge, then why say 'firm' or 'no offers'. I think most of these people would not pay full price when they look for a car. In fact, I can't understand ANYONE who would just walk up and pay the asking price without some form of negotiation. And this rubbish about wasting people's time? All they need to say is 'no' if they don't want to sell at the price offered. The seller just needs to know that their beloved car is ONLY worth what someone is willing to pay, not the other way around. By placing 'No offers' and 'Firm', it gives the impression that they are not serious in doing business at all.

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by eb2monty

So if most will budge, then why say 'firm' or 'no offers'. I think most of these people would not pay full price when they look for a car. In fact, I can't understand ANYONE who would just walk up and pay the asking price without some form of negotiation. And this rubbish about wasting people's time? All they need to say is 'no' if they don't want to sell at the price offered. The seller just needs to know that their beloved car is ONLY worth what someone is willing to pay, not the other way around. By placing 'No offers' and 'Firm', it gives the impression that they are not serious in doing business at all.

For me, time is money. I don't want to entertain a conga line tyre kickers who are just going to lowball me or 101 scam artists who are overseas, email me and want to send me a dodgy cheque. I would have to make arrangements outside of my working hours (which cam be erratic) to entertain someone who may or may not be serious about buying my car.

If I went the private sale route, I'd put my low price up and firm. Because my time is money, I've never done it as I don't buy private so I've always opted to trade my current vehicle in on a new one.

[Geez Louise]

I can understand why people do that though...you advertise a car for say 10k and you get some clown come and offer you 8k!

If you are a genuine buyer and have CASH, most people will budge a little on price rather than lose a sale. The firm or No offers is mainly to stop the low balling that goes on by a lot of people.

My 2c on it anyway.

[Legit290]

Originally Posted by Geez Louise

I can understand why people do that though...you advertise a car for say 10k and you get some clown come and offer you 8k!

If you are a genuine buyer and have CASH, most people will budge a little on price rather than lose a sale. The firm or No offers is mainly to stop the low balling that goes on by a lot of people.

My 2c on it anyway.

Would you take 1c?

[chrisfpv]

I'd hardly call it arrogance. If I'm selling a car, and I want $15,000 for it then I'm going to put the price at $15,000 and state that is the lowest I'm willing to go.

I don't want to put it at $16,000 because it may turn people away because they do not know I'm happy with $15,000. Nobody posts an ad with (x) amount and states that they'd be happy with $500 less. It defeats the purpose of advertising it at that higher price to begin with.

Also, car selling websites such as carsales and carpoint have a feature to search by price (as well as other options) and by placing your car at $15,500 when you are happy with $15,000 for example, you block out all the potential buyers who are looking for cars $15,000 or less, and have put that into the search feature. Therefore they do no have the opportunity to have a look at your ad.

Originally Posted by davocol

by the way how else would you pay for a second hand private sale? Credit card?

Check.

[THE50]

I think that has hit the nail on the head, for me anyway. Next time I advertise, I'm just going to come right out and say "No lowballs!". I'm always happy to listen to a genuine offer - it does not offend me and I can always say no. But when someone offers only 60% of your asking price (or worse) its just kinda rude. Especially if this equates to thousands of dollars!

2c from me too.

Omar

[The G6ET Spot]

Originally Posted by Geez Louise

I can understand why people do that though...you advertise a car for say 10k and you get some clown come and offer you 8k!

If you are a genuine buyer and have CASH, most people will budge a little on price rather than lose a sale. The firm or No offers is mainly to stop the low balling that goes on by a lot of people.

My 2c on it anyway.

This the exact reason as to why people advertise firm prices. It also keeps the tyre kickers away.

When I sold my XW I advertised it with a firm price, still had a couple of people try and offer me a couple of thousand less. I think they got the hint when I just hung the phone up in their ear.

I ended up selling it in 6 days. IMO it was a fair price for the car at which the buyer thought was as well.

[Smoke Pursuit]

When some says firm or no neg they typically have priced it accordingly, rather then inflating the price with room to move.

[gtxb67]

Originally Posted by DASH GT

When some says firm or no neg they typically have priced it accordingly, rather then inflating the price with room to move.

agree

to me it is arrogance when people expect money off everything. you either want it or you don't. if i am selling something, i want a certain amount - i will not waste anyone's time by advertising it for more. if you do not like it, buy someone elses

knocking money off doesn't give you a bargain - it just means 2 parties ****ed about over a price instead of just agreeing in the first place. the problem is, this perceived bargain has filtered into everything we buy. everything is hopelessly overpriced, so that they can suck everyone in with specials that are only at the realistic selling price anyway . . . . just so someone can go home artificially happy with their sale price

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by gtxb67

agree

to me it is arrogance when people expect money off everything. you either want it or you don't. if i am selling something, i want a certain amount - i will not waste anyone's time by advertising it for more. if you do not like it, buy someone elses

knocking money off doesn't give you a bargain - it just means 2 parties ****ed about over a price instead of just agreeing in the first place. the problem is, this perceived bargain has filtered into everything we buy. everything is hopelessly overpriced, so that they can suck everyone in with specials that are only at the realistic selling price anyway . . . . just so someone can go home artificially happy with their sale price

Spot on. At the end of the day its their property not yours (until you pay for it) and can set whatever price they like.

[davocol]

Agree with the above, I have my Subaru on car sales at the moment and it's advertised at 13 which is the lowest on there for that model. I had some clown calling me the other day offering me 10 cash. What a tool, by the way how else would you pay for a second hand private sale? Credit card?

[2011G6E]

I think some are **** factor, some are simply people who don't really want to sell the car...but have come up with a price for it, and if someone pays, they'll let it go.
I've owned my beloved and rare 1974 Kawasaki H2-750 two-stroke triple since 1994, I've always said it would never be sold and will be passed on to one of our kids...yet if someone walked up to me with $12,000, it'd be out the door.

[calais]

I as a buyer set a price that I am prepared to pay, and if the seller is keen, they'd take a fair offered price on most occasions.

However I'm well and truly aware of how insulting lowballing can be.

There are times I have thanked a seller for their time and openly admitted that I was not in a position to satisfy their asking price in its entirety. I have never been met with any animosity in this situation.

But when it comes down to it, a seller can ask whatever they like, whether the asking price gets met is another issue entirely.

[fordman302]

i agree, i would much rather just know what the seller wants for the item straight up, i put my car and my boat on the market a while ago and got silly offers, i put the price on because thats what i wanted not because i wanted to play lets see how much you can get me down to

[P6LTD351]

I agree that offering stupid amounts thousands under the asking price is ridiculous. Why not just advertise it at the asking price. I don't think there is a need to ad 'No offers' or 'Firm'.

[Jack960]

Easy solution, If you want $15000 for your car, you advertise it for $16000 or sumin. It does annoy me when people say firm prices, I like talking people down :P

[P6LTD351]

Originally Posted by Jack960

Easy solution, If you want $15000 for your car, you advertise it for $16000 or sumin. It does annoy me when people say firm prices, I like talking people down :P

Correct. I would never advertise something I'm selling at my bottom price. Always allow a bit of room for movement.

Perceived or not. Real or not, most people like doing business this way.

[Bossxr8]

People who do the whole FIRM or No Offers deal are probably the ones who never sell them.

If you're looking at a couple of cars, and the others are open to offers and one won't budge, its not hard to figure out who's car will sell.

[Windsor342ci]

I fully support this. I dont have enough time on my hands having people thinking that there is room for negotiation.
This is how I advertised my XR8. Due to the lack if BS in my advert and the term of firm etc, it was sold in less then 24 hrs of posting it. Yeh sure, if I wasnt fussed and curious to play the game Id bump it up to add room for negotiation, but more often then not, once my mind is made up I want it gone and not lingering around.
Those that had 9K to spend knew not to bother with my car, why, because I said 10K firm and that is all.

[Crazy Dazz]

The problem with people who say “firm, no offers,” is that they generally ARE tools, who have seriously overpriced what they are trying to sell. It’s all very well to say that they don’t want to waste their time, but what about my time? I have given up searching on some sites, because they are just clogged with overpriced junk. If I go searching for something, I only want to receive results that represent genuine sellers.
I find it particularly egregious when some ****** has a classic car rusting in his back yard, he somehow thinks that ripping all the bits off and dumping them in the boot has somehow increased its value, and he’s happy to leave it rusting there until somebody meets his price.

The other thing that really bugs me, is when people advertise online, but then say “I won’t respond to emails.”
I have to ask myself “why?” Replying to an email is a simple way to convey lots of information, and you can send the same stuff to multiple enquirers, again, and again.
If I’m looking at a second-hand car (or boat), particularly a classic, I’m going to want lots of details.
To me, “I won’t reply to emails” translates as “I know you will have lots of questions, I intend to lie to you wherever possible, and yet I am so dumb that I risk contradicting my own lies if I commit them to an email…”

[P6LTD351]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

The problem with people who say “firm, no offers,” is that they generally ARE tools, who have seriously overpriced what they are trying to sell. It’s all very well to say that they don’t want to waste their time, but what about my time? I have given up searching on some sites, because they are just clogged with overpriced junk. If I go searching for something, I only want to receive results that represent genuine sellers.
I find it particularly egregious when some ****** has a classic car rusting in his back yard, he somehow thinks that ripping all the bits off and dumping them in the boot has somehow increased its value, and he’s happy to leave it rusting there until somebody meets his price.

The other thing that really bugs me, is when people advertise online, but then say “I won’t respond to emails.”
I have to ask myself “why?” Replying to an email is a simple way to convey lots of information, and you can send the same stuff to multiple enquirers, again, and again.
If I’m looking at a second-hand car (or boat), particularly a classic, I’m going to want lots of details.
To me, “I won’t reply to emails” translates as “I know you will have lots of questions, I intend to lie to you wherever possible, and yet I am so dumb that I risk contradicting my own lies if I commit them to an email…”

Great post. Has summed up the reasons why I started this thread.

[jimmyxr6t04]

nothing wrong with asking a firm price, especially if the item is already below the cost of other items that are the same...

Eg: asking $42,000 FIRM for a car (same kms, colour, condition, rego etc) that others are asking 46k+ for... Sure, you might get the 46k car for 42k... but then you'd have to haggle... Why are people willing to haggle to get to 42k, when they could simply just pay it from the start? It doesn't make the deal any better!

If you know it's a good deal, then buy it... if it's not a good deal then move on to the next car.

I have a mate who wants a 4x4... all the cars he's seen are $30k+ with plenty of kms on them... One pops up for $27k with lower kms, and in good nick. He KNOWs it's a good deal, he admits it... Yet, he still offers 24k... of course the bloke said no, by the time my mate calls back to get serious, the car is sold.

Moral of the story, if you know it's a good deal, buy it! If it's over priced, then move on...

[gtxb67]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

It’s all very well to say that they don’t want to waste their time, but what about my time?

but they are not wasting your time - you already know from the start, that you do not want their car. you will not ring them, or go around and see it, only to be told they will not take any money off. in reality they are doing you a favour

there are many unknowns when going trying to buy a 2nd hand car. a fixed price at least takes away one unknown and lets you decide whether you can or will be willing to afford it. if only their descriptions on condition were half as accurate

[chrisfpv]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

The problem with people who say “firm, no offers,” is that they generally ARE tools, who have seriously overpriced what they are trying to sell.

Hardly.
I find that the people who put "firm" or "no offers" in their advertisement are the people who don't want any BS and have laid out the price they want. If you're happy with that price then contact the seller, if you're not then move on to someone else. These people are not tools!

Like Iggypoppin' said, there is that small minority who do overprice there cars because they think by adding this and adding that, it has somehow doubled the amount it would usually go for. Then you have the extremists who want $100,000 plus for a VN or VL. These people are generally tools.

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

It’s all very well to say that they don’t want to waste their time, but what about my time? I have given up searching on some sites, because they are just clogged with overpriced junk. If I go searching for something, I only want to receive results that represent genuine sellers.

You cannot be seriously suggesting that people who aren't willing to give YOU a bargain, or put FIRM or NO OFFERS in their advertisement aren't genuine sellers!

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

The other thing that really bugs me, is when people advertise online, but then say “I won’t respond to emails.”
I have to ask myself “why?” Replying to an email is a simple way to convey lots of information, and you can send the same stuff to multiple enquirers, again, and again.
If I’m looking at a second-hand car (or boat), particularly a classic, I’m going to want lots of details.
To me, “I won’t reply to emails” translates as “I know you will have lots of questions, I intend to lie to you wherever possible, and yet I am so dumb that I risk contradicting my own lies if I commit them to an email…”

You're asking why?
Grab a pen and a piece of paper and use the phone. It's much more personal and if you have a lot of questions to ask then ask them then it puts the seller on the spot, and you'll be able to tell if he's feeding you garbage just to get you to come and have a look at his/her car.

To me, "I won't reply to e-mails" translates to "Here is my phone number, if you're interested and serious give me a call and we can chat, I'll answer any questions you have and if you're happy then we can arrange a time for you to come and have a look at the car."

Every person who sells a car lists their phone number for a reason, I cannot understand why you would e-mail someone about a car for sale when you can just phone them. Unless there is some strange circumstance where you cannot get to a phone ofcourse.

Plus by rejecting e-mails, you knock out most of the people from Nigeria.

[Bearman]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

The problem with people who say “firm, no offers,” is that they generally ARE tools, who have seriously overpriced what they are trying to sell. It’s all very well to say that they don’t want to waste their time, but what about my time? I have given up searching on some sites, because they are just clogged with overpriced junk. If I go searching for something, I only want to receive results that represent genuine sellers.
I find it particularly egregious when some ****** has a classic car rusting in his back yard, he somehow thinks that ripping all the bits off and dumping them in the boot has somehow increased its value, and he’s happy to leave it rusting there until somebody meets his price.

The other thing that really bugs me, is when people advertise online, but then say “I won’t respond to emails.”
I have to ask myself “why?” Replying to an email is a simple way to convey lots of information, and you can send the same stuff to multiple enquirers, again, and again.
If I’m looking at a second-hand car (or boat), particularly a classic, I’m going to want lots of details.
To me, “I won’t reply to emails” translates as “I know you will have lots of questions, I intend to lie to you wherever possible, and yet I am so dumb that I risk contradicting my own lies if I commit them to an email…”

If I see "firm, no offers" on something I know is top dollar or overpriced then they are the tools you describe or at best a speculator or someone fishing for that "more money than sense" type buyer. Most buyers are pretty savvy and don't go for these ads.

However, if I see "firm, no offers" on an ad priced at the cheap end of the scale then that tells me they are a genuine seller who has advertised their bottom line price from the get go. They are going for a quick hassle free sale.

"I won't reply to e-mails" to me means the seller is sick to death of being contacted by Nigerians, ships engineers at sea (a well known scam) or any other scenario. If you're interested just pick up the phone and talk to the guy. Then you can arrange an exchange of e-mails after the seller is happy you're genuine.

[XR6Naranja]

I see there's two-three more ways to back up the OP, seems he got bombarded a bit.

Firstly by selling your car at say 16k but your lowest is 15k so you leave room for negotiations, you may possibly get more then your lowest, unless like posted up a bit more you've listed this before a couple times and haven't managed to sell it (But then maybe you're asking too much?).

Secondly I'd like to see it as business, your car may be listed 16k and there is another one on there for 14.5k, someone may look at your car and go, oh well he has an exhaust, I'll see if I can knock his down to as close as I can get it to 14.5k and if I like it I'll take it, we all know that very rarely that things like an exhaust will heighten the value but this is something to be considered.

Which leads to my third idea, as the OP said, he and many others find joy by negotiating a price, this isn't some little kick that he gets and only he gets, you sell your car for 16k, you want 15k, he wants to knock you down and you budge to 15.5k, he's happy that he's managed to knock you down and is likely to make the buy as in his eyes he just saved $500 which can go to having a tune or something..

All in all, when people get desperate they usually drop prices below their lowest, you might want 15k firm but then a month later really need to sell the car for a baby or something and drop it to 14k, you've then lost a months worth of potential buyers, and between 100-1000 dollars worth in a negotiation.

Just to cover myself, I have no mentality towards either party, in the end it is their choice, I don't classify them as anything for it, I'm usually the type to pay what is asked as I'm inpatient and usually take the opportunity while it's there, unless something says O.N.O and the seller is willing to go quite a bit less, there's no point.

[BadMax]

I'd be more inclined to think it's a way of culling time wasters who need to feed their ego. The admission by you saying you have to have a win is nothing but a phsycological disorder of sorts, you just need to 'beat' someone down.

I bet my left testicle you've never walked into a service station when petrol is at a $1.60 and tried to negotiate a better price? Why haven't you? Because you know you can get that little 'win', so you'll move onto someone who you percieve as being vulnerable.

How do you know that the 'frim price' car isn't the one you are after? You're more than likely a low baller who can't be bothered to get off your butt to inspect it but you'll try and negotiate over the phone.

I commonly call people like this 'wondos', just wondering around without much purpose busting peoples chops.

[XR6Naranja]

Originally Posted by BadMax

I'd be more inclined to think it's a way of culling time wasters who need to feed their ego. The admission by you saying you have to have a win is nothing but a phsycological disorder of sorts, you just need to 'beat' someone down.

I bet my left testicle you've never walked into a service station when petrol is at a $1.60 and tried to negotiate a better price? Why haven't you? Because you know you can get that little 'win', so you'll move onto someone who you percieve as being vulnerable.

How do you know that the 'frim price' car isn't the one you are after? You're more than likely a low baller who can't be bothered to get off your butt to inspect it but you'll try and negotiate over the phone.

I commonly call people like this 'wondos', just wondering around without much purpose busting peoples chops.

A lot of insulting assumptions here..

Most people, and I say most not all, have a tiny bit of gladness, or joy when they get something cheap, whether it was on sale or they negotiated the price, this isn't much a disorder, and from a lot of build threads on this forum I'd say quite a lot of people are like this.

No one walks into the servo and tries to negotiate fuel because more then often the price isn't set by the person in the shop, different when the price is set by the guy selling the car and they actually have their own authority to change it, I don't believe the OP mentioned vulnerability here, he simply knows that the person wants to sell the car, and that he wants to buy one, and so in this case for him to get his normal kick out of buying a car or getting a car he likes at a lower price, he'll attempt to negotiate a price, this is almost like questioning why buy a lottery ticket, why attend power cruise, answer is because you'll never know what the outcome was if you didn't try..

Next two sentences are just insults nothing to say for that.

So if you saw 2 similar cars, 1 for $16,000 and one for $15,000 firm, hasn't the second guy saved your time by allowing you to make your $14,750 offer on the first, and know that you can roll up and buy the other one, or use it for bargaining.

You want every car on the market to have a couple of grand thrown on top?

This is assuming every seller wants $15,000 for their car minimum and inflate their price to 16,000.

But I do see your point, which is why I pointed out the reasons above for someone selling as a firm.

But more often then not, and especially since most of the guys on here are intelligent and reasonable, the price isn't unfair and is easily met with satisfaction.