The Death of QANTAS - Page 2

gtxb67 · 29-10-2011, 07:24 PM

i am not sure who is giving the anti union sentiments and supporting mr joyce. some of us have just said it was expected, that is about it. at best, some have suggested that neither the company nor the workers have been so smart

Uncle Niceguy · 29-10-2011, 07:25 PM

pretty sure this is over job security and NOT pay since a lot of jobs are going O/S

Bucknaked · 29-10-2011, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gtfpv

i reckon they'll be back at work within a short time , cant see world wide closure .

I think the damage has been done. Who would want to fly with Qantas now. People want to get to their destinations. Not get stuck somewhere because of politics. Joyce is doing himself and Qantas no favours. I am sure there are far wider implications because of this decision.

AMGC63 · 29-10-2011, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

Continuing to threaten action causing the grounding of flights, and then
canceling actions so members can still get paid while QANTAS could not
reinstate planes is driving customers away in droves.

The union is killing QANTAS.

The whole of the Australian traveling public is now very anti union,
these stupid people threatened to slow cook QANTAS, you can't do that...

Yes 2 sides to every story.

Bottom line is once you start screwing with the operation and viability of your employer and holding them to ransom you're on a slippery slope to poo.... regardless who's right or wrong.

Surely there are better ways to negatiate than do that to Qantas, and effectively destroy your own members livelyhoods too..

SteveJH · 29-10-2011, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bucknaked

I think the damage has been done. Who would want to fly with Qantas now. People want to get to their destinations. Not get stuck somewhere because of politics. Joyce is doing himself and Qantas no favours. I am sure there are far wider implications because of this decision.

I'd say the opposite, at least now you *know* what is going to happen, previously you had no idea what the unions were going to do and if your flight would actually go ahead.

pottery beige · 29-10-2011, 07:33 PM

QANTAS....

http://www.qantas.com.au/travel/airl...ions/global/en

flappist · 29-10-2011, 07:37 PM

I used to be in the ETU and saw it from the inside. The ETU held the people of QLD to ransom in the SEQEB strikes of 1984/5 therefore giving JBP the mandate to smash them completely.

TWU obviously did not learn from that lesson.

For those who don't get it or look with only one eye the lesson is:

DO NOT ANNOY THE GENERAL PUBLIC. They/we do not care about anything that does not affect us directly and will turn on whomever is causing us grief regardless of right or wrong.

In this case the perception is:
1) There is a dispute and the unions repeatedly stopped work causing grief.
2) The unions threatened to destroy QANTAS.
3) QANTAS stops flying because of the union so the general public now have huge amounts of grief which they believe is because of the union.
4) The Fed Gov will have to act to sort this and as the general public are against the union the Fed Gov will snot them.

My bet is the TWU like the ETU will now be singing soprano......

jpd80 · 29-10-2011, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AMGC63

Yes 2 sides to every story.

Bottom line is once you start screwing with the operation and viability of your employer and holding them to ransom you're on a slippery slope to poo.... regardless who's right or wrong.

Surely there are better ways to negatiate than do that to Qantas, and effectively destroy your own members livelyhoods too..

There's a lot of brinkmanship going on here, pilots are ok they can get jobs
anywhere but TWU people have lowish wages and their families suffer.

It's ugly and I hope people start renegotiating ahead of any lock out.......

brydie76 · 29-10-2011, 07:40 PM

I can see the government getting involved with this, both sides are pushing just a little bit too much on the other.

And as others have said, I would be reserving judgement until an agreement is found between the two parties. Both have mud on their hands anyway, so neither can be championed by anybody as being the "good guys" in this saga. Just hope a resolution is found soon for the little guys caught up in the whole thing.

Spudz27 · 29-10-2011, 07:50 PM

What a disaster. Regardless of what happens, the Qantas name has been screwed. I know the media has beaten things up, but with the mid air incidents lately and now this, and not to mention Qantas are the most expensive to fly. I believe Mr Branson is already doubling his order for new aircraft. I personally know people now freaking out because their honeymoon is in 4 weeks and they booked qantas, I am hoping the surgeon needed for my op did not book Qantas because it is booked for this week and I tell you what, if my surgery is canned again, because of this I will be fuming. I sympathise with the union about outsourcing, but I don't agree with their tactics and I certainly won't support them if their actions cause me grief. Nor would I ever consider flying Qantas after this.

Also I don't usually like to comment on others use of english, but can someone change the thread title to Qantas not us.

AC · 29-10-2011, 07:51 PM

I think the Team America "Dicks, Pussies & Assholes" Quote applies here.

Hopefully mods will let me explain.

Im sure majority of us know how the quote goes.

So Qantas(being the former) screwed themselves by upsetting the employees, who turned to unions to crap all over their bosses, Which in turn has forced Qantas to grow a pair and screw the Unions and the Employees

I really hope my flight is good to go Monday....

Adamz Ghia · 29-10-2011, 07:52 PM

People who complain that Joyce gave himself a pay rise have no idea about the corporate world. Qantas have to pay this to keep him, it's what he's worth. If another company offered you higher pay to defect to them would you stay? Doubt it.

While unions have their place and do some good, they are thugs in this instance. Unions helped kill off Ansett in the end, no lessons have been learnt...

Romulus · 29-10-2011, 07:55 PM

Where's ltd? I'd like his input into this action. It's unprecedented action, I'm not sure what to make of this....

SteveJH · 29-10-2011, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spudz27

Also I don't usually like to comment on others use of english, but can someone change the thread title to Qantas not us.

I asked Flappist, but it needs to be a "green" mod and none are online.

PS. Sorry about my bad spelling...no idea how or why I did that...

Romulus · 29-10-2011, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

I used to be in the ETU and saw it from the inside. The ETU held the people of QLD to ransom in the SEQEB strikes of 1984/5 therefore giving JBP the mandate to smash them completely.

TWU obviously did not learn from that lesson.

For those who don't get it or look with only one eye the lesson is:

DO NOT ANNOY THE GENERAL PUBLIC. They/we do not care about anything that does not affect us directly and will turn on whomever is causing us grief regardless of right or wrong.

In this case the perception is:
1) There is a dispute and the unions repeatedly stopped work causing grief.
2) The unions threatened to destroy QANTAS.
3) QANTAS stops flying because of the union so the general public now have huge amounts of grief which they believe is because of the union.
4) The Fed Gov will have to act to sort this and as the general public are against the union the Fed Gov will snot them.

My bet is the TWU like the ETU will now be singing soprano......

Top post, you deserve a smiley

Spudz27 · 29-10-2011, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by F6 Concorde

Where's ltd? I'd like his input into this action. It's unprecedented action, I'm not sure what to make of this....

I am not sure Ltd would be able to say much, unless he is not a union member.

geckoGT · 29-10-2011, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveJH

I asked Flappist, but it needs to be a "green" mod and none are online.

PS. Sorry about my bad spelling...no idea how or why I did that...

No you don't need to be green, fixed now.

Resurrection · 29-10-2011, 08:10 PM

I don't know who is right in this sitation. However it is clear the recent pay rise for My Joyce was not the right decision considering the difficult negotiations.

SteveJH · 29-10-2011, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geckoGT

No you don't need to be green, fixed now.

Thanks Gecko!

SteveJH · 29-10-2011, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Resurrection

I don't know who is right in this sitation. However it is clear the recent pay rise for My Joyce was not the right decision considering the difficult negotiations.

They may not have had a choice, remember the airline has to pay him the going rate if they don't want him to go elsewhere.

I'd also like to point out, that a $2 million pay rise for one person is equivilent to a $66 increase for 30,000. Assuming a $50,000 average wage, thats an increase of 0.13%/PA.

brydie76 · 29-10-2011, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Resurrection

I don't know who is right in this sitation. However it is clear the recent pay rise for My Joyce was not the right decision considering the difficult negotiations.

It's basically a resonse to supply and demand, as others have said. It reflects what Joyce would be worth to another firm if he was "on the market", so to speak, plus a bit of a loyalty bonus and incentive. I daresay any sort of issues/negative performance was factored in the determination of that "market rate", ie if everything at QANTAS was fine and sunny he would be looking at a helluva lot more money.

Not saying I agree with his pay however. Especially given my current pay rate in comparison, haha!

Paxton · 29-10-2011, 08:18 PM

John Borghetti (the man who should be running Qantas) will be rubbing his hands together tonight. My Sister-in-Law works for Qantas, as a Check In Chick. She's signed her EBA, and her Union is not striking, yet they're being locked out, not doing anything wrong.

I'm glad I'm not flying anywhere at the moment, but my shares in Virgin will be doing well next week.

Resurrection · 29-10-2011, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveJH

They may not have had a choice, remember the airline has to pay him the going rate if they don't want him to go elsewhere.

I'd also like to point out, that a $2 million pay rise for one person is equivilent to a $66 increase for 30,000. Assuming a $50,000 average wage, thats an increase of 0.13%/PA.

It is timing of this decison which is wrong, not the decison itself.

SteveJH · 29-10-2011, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Resurrection

It is timing of this decison which is wrong, not the decison itself.

Again, they had no choice, it had to be approved by the AGM, and I doubt they could have rescheduled that, at least not easily.

gtxb67 · 29-10-2011, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Resurrection

It is timing of this decison which is wrong, not the decison itself.

could it be possible that someone knew of his pay rise and decided to bring the industrial action up now. there always seems to be unrest there. maybe someone was waiting for the right timing to make him look as bad as possible

AMGC63 · 29-10-2011, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gtxb67

could it be possible that someone knew of his pay rise and decided to bring the industrial action up now. there always seems to be unrest there. maybe someone was waiting for the right timing to make him look as bad as possible

Id say that makes perfect sense.. the timing of his pay rise would be set in stone a while ago, timing is everything if you're trying to gain support against overwhelming ods...
Still they're both mutualy exclusive to the issues at hand.

MAGPIE · 29-10-2011, 08:37 PM

Would love to know the cost to Qantas of all the unions claims versus the cost of grounding your entire fleet @ 20m per day

**Full Noise** · 29-10-2011, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paxton

My Sister-in-Law works for Qantas, as a Check In Chick. She's signed her EBA, and her Union is not striking, yet they're being locked out, not doing anything wrong.

I wouldn’t be so sure about that. While that maggot, Joyce, was talking crap on TV, I’m sure he said that unions not involved would not be locked out. I could be mistaken but I’m sure that’s what he said.

Resurrection · 29-10-2011, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAGPIE

Would love to know the cost to Qantas of all the unions claims versus the cost of grounding your entire fleet @ 20m per day

Well said.

SteveJH · 29-10-2011, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAGPIE

Would love to know the cost to Qantas of all the unions claims versus the cost of grounding your entire fleet @ 20m per day

What exactly were their demands? The industrial action was costing $15 million/week.

I have a feeling Qantas just hit the "win" button. I doubt the Government would be willing to let such a massive disruption to transport continue for long.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Full Noise

I wouldn’t be so sure about that. While that maggot, Joyce, was talking crap on TV, I’m sure he said that unions not involved would not be locked out. I could be mistaken but I’m sure that’s what he said.

Yes, he said only the involved unions were locked out, everyone else had to go to work. Not sure what they'd be doing there though?