Focus ST beats Toyota 86 GTS - Page 2

Rodp · 14-10-2012, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stefan

Shame there is no DSG available. Would have considered it as a daily but Sydney stop start traffic 5 days a week in a manual is a deal breaker.

Seconded. Reading another carsguide write up on it, they made mention of the fuel economy - stated for the 6 speed manual version. It sort of implied there's possibly an auto version kicking around somewhere.

I spend a lot of my day driving in Sydney traffic and after owning a manual XR8, then buying a DSG R32 (which my knee thanked me for..) then going into a manual R8 - I think my manual days are over.. and I can bend my left knee again.

Chrisosicko · 14-10-2012, 10:12 AM

After playing around with a st yesterday I am seriously considering trading in my gt for one. They are a lot better than u might think

flappist · 14-10-2012, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Its not competing in the same "class", but they're the same price, really the only difference is one drives the rear wheels and the other drives the front, I don't care about that.

For me that means I'd cross shop them both.

To me, "hot hatch" and "sports" are the same.

Yes and to some people Camry and Falcon are in the same class.

But then others who actually have some understanding about motor vehicles would think that those people had no idea and would be very amused should there be a post of a car enthusiast forum by someone stating this.

StealthAu · 14-10-2012, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stefan

Shame there is no DSG available. Would have considered it as a daily but Sydney stop start traffic 5 days a week in a manual is a deal breaker.

Yeah, I hear the Focus ST has a pretty heavy clutch, be a lot of work

Franco Cozzo · 14-10-2012, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

Yes and to some people Camry and Falcon are in the same class.

But then others who actually have some understanding about motor vehicles would think that those people had no idea and would be very amused should there be a post of a car enthusiast forum by someone stating this.

Meh, I don't profess to be gods gift to motor vehicles, I just state what I think and probably what mr joe average is thinking.

Scooter · 14-10-2012, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bucknaked

I often wonder if people who bark on about the evils of not having RWD are the same people that their own car is a RWD and Auto. Can we even taken those people seriously? At least sell your auto for a manual and then you can add weight to the arguement.

WTF are you on about? That would have to be the most stupidest post I have read in a long time! You are very narrow minded obviously?

I would say comparing the 2 vehicles biggest factors would be as stated:
no auto option, and 2 door would be no good for families. They would be big limiting factors in peoples final decision.

LukeyST · 14-10-2012, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chrisosicko

After playing around with a st yesterday I am seriously considering trading in my gt for one. They are a lot better than u might think

THIS is a big statement to make. Good to hear from someone who has actually driven one also!

tranquilized · 14-10-2012, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Meh, I don't profess to be gods gift to motor vehicles, I just state what I think and probably what mr joe average is thinking.

But Mr Joe Average isn't a car enthusiast, so who really cares what he thinks?

What I do agree with you on though, is that the Focus and 86 can, and will be cross shopped by a lot of buyers. And I suspect to the people who do cross shop them, the RWD vs FWD aspect will be less of a factor than other points of difference such as rear seats or an automatic transmission.

Make no mistake though, the Toyota is the sports car, the Ford is the sporty car. Big difference.

XR6Runner · 14-10-2012, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Good luck to them?

It seems all the RWD fanboys on here drive auto Falcons/Commodores and its superior to any FWD car, just because it drives the rear wheels.

Falcon and Commodore do their job perfectly fine as a family sedan, don't get me wrong, but they're hardly the best in handling and driving dynamics really, it goes fairly quick in a straight line and thats it.

Read this thread: http://fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11379071 and tell me once again how awful the falcon and commodore is with its handling and bad dynamics. Can you see how fast the F6 and XR6 Turbo goes around that track, and the cars its beating? (All cars are stock)

flappist · 14-10-2012, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Meh, I don't profess to be gods gift to motor vehicles, I just state what I think and probably what mr joe average is thinking.

Mr Joe Average will buy neither as they are both above average in performance and price while both below average in comfort, fuel economy and ease of operation.

Franco Cozzo · 14-10-2012, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

Mr Joe Average will buy neither as they are both above average in performance and price while both below average in comfort, fuel economy and ease of operation.

I'd buy one and I'd consider myself "average", its on the list, but I'm not a "car enthusiast" either because I like modern FWD cars?

Chrisosicko · 14-10-2012, 01:53 PM

Seems to be a lot of people knocking them without driving either of them, use should expect to see a lot of both of these cars on the road.

flappist · 14-10-2012, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Damo

I'd buy one and I'd consider myself "average", its on the list, but I'm not a "car enthusiast" either because I like modern FWD cars?

Why would you buy the ST for $40k over a standard Focus for $20k other than you are a car enthusiast?

**DJM83** · 14-10-2012, 02:26 PM

How does a positive thread end like this? If you don't like the car or FWD of vice versa why post. Some people will never be happy.

jpd80 · 14-10-2012, 02:30 PM

I'll go on record as saying that the average new vehicle buyer profile does not prefer Ford or modern RWD cars.
Our Aussie market is now so fragmented that using terms like average buyer are pretty much meaningless.....
No one is an average buyer, we all have set criteria our new vehicles have to fill, that's why the market is so diverse.

Franco Cozzo · 14-10-2012, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

Why would you buy the ST for $40k over a standard Focus for $20k other than you are a car enthusiast?

Its a nicer car, with some power behind it, its like how you see the middle aged men and their wives driving Mazda 3 MPS etc I guess?

Vormund · 14-10-2012, 03:07 PM

Thought I'd pop into this thread since I've actually just put an order for a 86.

I'm not going to lie, RWD was a factor in me choosing the car. I like the way it sounds, handles and the low seating and centre of gravity. FWIW, the GTS model suffers from an 18 month wait, the cheaper GT (which I ordered) is around 4-6 months. My price is $33k driveaway.

In the end buy what you like, and be thankful for the amount of choice in the market that we have.

flappist · 14-10-2012, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Its a nicer car, with some power behind it, its like how you see the middle aged men and their wives driving Mazda 3 MPS etc I guess?

And you cannot understand that a person who chooses a nicer, more expensive, more powerful model of a car with a rougher ride and manual only transmission is a "car enthusiast"?

Chilliman · 14-10-2012, 03:50 PM

I read the review in the Sunday times today - just half-a-point in it (20.5 to the ST Vs 20 points to the Toyota 86) but a win is a win; more so as it's Cars-guide awarding the win!

|Nate · 14-10-2012, 05:04 PM

It's interesting seeing peoples opinions on hot hatches and FWD layouts.
I guess I'm super lucky to have a hot hatch that's RWD

Fiesta_Man69 · 14-10-2012, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chilliman

I read the review in the Sunday times today - just half-a-point in it (20.5 to the ST Vs 20 points to the Toyota 86) but a win is a win; more so as it's Cars-guide awarding the win!

"It doesn't matter if you win by an inch or a mile: winning is winning."

Considering the amount of positive press (tho some significant negative, but we'll let that pass) the 86 had got, the fact that the ST stayed with and beat the 86 has to be great news for Ford fans...

Who cares if the car is fwd or rwd? Really? Would those rwd die hards prefer a Gemini to a fwd ST? Please.

Fun is fun.

A sports car is a sports car: rwd or fwd or awd....

2011G6E · 14-10-2012, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike_nofx

There is one big box it doesn't tick... RWD

Shhh...don't mention that...

FordACE · 14-10-2012, 05:42 PM

I'm seriously considering this car to replace the partners Mirage. It sounds like a beauty. Manual is perfect for us because that's all we want to drive.

mike_nofx · 14-10-2012, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fiesta_Man69

Who cares if the car is fwd or rwd? Really?

Not sure who cares. Maybe the people waiting up to 3 years for their RWD 86 on order?

Or maybe the dealerships care, the ones who are selling more RWD 86s than all other models combined?

**DJM83** · 14-10-2012, 07:09 PM

Can we keep the chat about the ST vs 86 thanks. I dont go into other new car threads and complain they are wrong wheel drive so id expect the same in return.

Fiesta_Man69 · 14-10-2012, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike_nofx

Or maybe the dealerships care, the ones who are selling more RWD 86s than all other models combined?

So the Toyota 86 is outselling the Toyota Camry and every other Toyota model put together? Ok then..... lol

Or are you claiming the 86 is outselling the Golf Gti, Wrx, megane 250, Clio Cup, old Ford XR5, Mazda mx5, Polo gti, Fabia rs, Veloster n/a and turbo etc. combined?

Oh well. Don't let facts get in the way I guess.....

Again, the huge wait is due to extremely limited numbers... ie. very few available...

Bossxr8 · 14-10-2012, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nic85

Veloster turbo is 0-100 in high 6's for the manual, mid 6's for the auto. My buddies' Veloster turbo is about a car length slower down the quarter mile than my Polo Gti, and the Polo runs high 14's. So in terms of outright performance, the Veloster turbo would be on par with the Focus ST. The Veloster is also a surprisingly good handler, although my mates has aftermarket rims and rubber.

Also, I've said it before, but its such a pity the Focus ST doesn't come with an automatic option of any sort. It limits the buying audience substantially, and counts it out as a possible upgrade for me completely.

Mid 8's more like it. The Veloster turbo is a bit of a dissapointment cause its not really that quick. All reviews come to the same conclusion, thats its a warm hatch and nothing more, and would be carved up by any decent hot hatch on the market.

To compare it to a ST is laughable, it would eat it in everyway.

I do agree with you thats its dissapointing it didn't come with the option of a DSG, which I can't understand because they already have one in other versions of the Focus. It definately cuts out a huge potential number of buyers.

Nic85 · 14-10-2012, 08:43 PM

Mid 8's lol. It's dead even to 100 with our Polo GTi and its high 6's to 100. What would I know though, I've only driven them lol.

**DJM83** · 14-10-2012, 08:47 PM

Veloster on par with the ST, that made me

hell it wouldnt even keep up with an XR5.
Then get them on a decent road and the ST would run rings around the Veloster (I like the Veloster)

Nic85 · 14-10-2012, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJM83

Veloster on par with the ST, that made me

hell it wouldnt even keep up with an XR5.
Then get them on a decent road and the ST would run rings around the Veloster (I like the Veloster)

So you've driven the Veloster turbo?