Ford gear box's in all V8 race cars ????? - Page 2

Cadge · 14-10-2011, 09:41 AM

Just out of curiosity... Does Ford use any holden Parts?

GunmetalFox · 14-10-2011, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

It amazes me how a lot of people out there dont realise that the V8 super cars have nothing in common to the real road going versions they "resemble".

Im the average (non bogan) that dosnt follow V8 SC,s, and i realized that they arn't actually the same as the road goers. But i thought they did things along the line of gettting a normal road goer strip it down and build it up again with better, stronger, lighter part essentialy leaving a "stock frame, chassis, shell etc, just lighter faster better.

I did not realize they were more like Nascars just a shell over a purpose built every thing else.

And after knowing that im even less inclined to become a V8SC bogan

sort of like watch pharlap and pharlaps clone in a race just with different jockeys zzzZZZZZZ

StealthAu · 14-10-2011, 10:01 AM

There is pretty much nothing Ford or Holden in the supercars other then badges, I could be wrong here, but I have even heard the bodys don't come from the badged factories. All the hype around Ford v Holden is a laugh, when there is no differance or brand relation in the engines, driveline, suspension..... It's like getting excited because your favorite colour won a race.

Jim Goose · 14-10-2011, 10:06 AM

A lot "older" folks no longer follow the series because of this very reason....

In the "good old days" of racing at bathurst, manufacturers used that race to sell their product.... as those cars were almost 100% off the shelf.
Even the tyres you could buy and put on your Falcon for road going use!

It was a manufacturers race... now its a drivers race.

xe351 · 14-10-2011, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by burnz

is that why a lot of ford's have chev engine's??

referring to rods? its easier to fit a windsor or chev because they are narrower than the mighty clevos and chevs have a lot more performance based products available

either that or the chev owners want a good looking car to go with their engine

GTP owner · 14-10-2011, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StealthAu

There is pretty much nothing Ford or Holden in the supercars other then badges, I could be wrong here, but I have even heard the bodys don't come from the badged factories. All the hype around Ford v Holden is a laugh, when there is no differance or brand relation in the engines, driveline, suspension..... It's like getting excited because your favorite colour won a race.

Yes, that it why i don't follow the sticker-pack freight train any more. Who really cares what colour won?

MR.BA.GT.332 · 14-10-2011, 10:20 AM

going back to the OP, i was reading about the V8 supercars new plan for the car of the future plans other other day

Same Cage (and chassis i assume?) new transaxle gearbox built by Albins Transmissions, going down the roads as being very "NASCAR" style, with only differences being body and engines..... the rest.... all controlled by V8SC
heres what i was reading:
http://www.v8supercars.com.au/cotf/t...4/default.aspx

Id like to see another manufacturer in the V8SC, but if Ford & Holden want to go back to their roots type of racing, the V8 Ute series is it and is a great class of racing to watch.

In saying that too, ive always wanted to see a V8 "superute" series, kinda like the (VU?) ute the Kelly boys built a few years back, NASCAR run the truck series, Aussies love their utes.... Could it be a win win? With the COTF V8SC around the corner, a lot of teams will have a lot of parts to ditch....

Just my 2c

PHANTMXR6 · 14-10-2011, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aussie muscle

also
the holden racecar is shorter than the commodore!

So is the Falcon race car.

TheSneakiness · 14-10-2011, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FordFairlaneAU

Only true Ford Vs Holden racing it the utes.

To a point. Alot of this category now runs control parts (engines, wheels, tyres, etc)

burnz · 14-10-2011, 11:55 AM

in short their is nothing holden of ford in a v8sc (engine excluded)

gearbox: nope not holden or ford..
diff: nope not holden or ford..
suspension: nope not holden or ford..

as for the other coments: i see a lot more fords running chev's with 2speed powerglide and 9"
than any other combo.

holdens yes with the 9" but never a toploader.. sag, muncie, m21. but never a toploader.

FPVGT500 · 14-10-2011, 12:10 PM

Ford have their own 5.0 NA engine in V8SC so i dont know what most are going on about

SteveJH · 14-10-2011, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FPVGT500

Ford have their own 5.0 NA engine in V8SC so i dont know what most are going on about

The Holden engine is a hybrid of Ford and GM parts I think people were saying.

Hopefully under COTF some of the newer GM and Ford engines can be homologated for use, even if the GM engine isnt 5 litres.

4bbl · 14-10-2011, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by burnz

in short their is nothing holden of ford in a v8sc (engine excluded)

gearbox: nope not holden or ford..
diff: nope not holden or ford..
suspension: nope not holden or ford..

as for the other coments: i see a lot more fords running chev's with 2speed powerglide and 9"
than any other combo.

holdens yes with the 9" but never a toploader.. sag, muncie, m21. but never a toploader.

Toploaders are nearly a 40 year old box now, go back 15 years ago and I seen plenty of hot commodores running toploaders, Powerglides are old also but I think you will find most are entirely aftermarket boxes

Ryan · 14-10-2011, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gavin Thomas

.
Regardless of or un-beknown of the fact that there is actually more FORD stlye mechanical's in the vehicle =

Does this mean every time a Holden V8SC has a mechanical failure the blame is on the Ford styled parts?

69Mach1 · 14-10-2011, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4bbl

Toploaders are nearly a 40 year old box now, go back 15 years ago and I seen plenty of hot commodores running toploaders, Powerglides are old also but I think you will find most are entirely aftermarket boxes

Have to agree, Ive seen plenty of Toploaders in Holdens. My mate did a swap out on his LX Tonana, toploader & 9". I also heard (never saw) of a hot VL SS with Toploader & 9"...hard to believe you would do it as these old SS's are worth a few bucks these days. I guess the reason is, before the stronger, modern boxes came out Toploader was probably the stongest most common box going around.

jjw · 14-10-2011, 02:12 PM

neither engine is the same as that offerred in the road cars - effectively a motorsport item only (as per all mechancials and suspension for that matter)

re teh q about the bodies - they are not made by the factories, but instead the race teams (or a 3rd party contractor) manufactures the roll cage/chassis unit and the panels are then clipped to that

WASP · 14-10-2011, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan

Does this mean every time a Holden V8SC has a mechanical failure the blame is on the Ford styled parts?

May be Ryan, its the implanted Fords part rejecting their donor ..

On a more serious note, I’m pretty sure the diff is referred to as a 9" diff because Ford own the patent to that particular design. The diff's they (SC) use are filled with race strength engineered components that have very little in common with the original factory items.

Having said that, I think it’s fair to say that Ford have developed some brilliant engine and driveline componentry over the years and it’s no surprise that these components are used as the framework on which many race parts are developed today.

Bossxr8 · 14-10-2011, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GunmetalFox

Im the average (non bogan) that dosnt follow V8 SC,s, and i realized that they arn't actually the same as the road goers. But i thought they did things along the line of gettting a normal road goer strip it down and build it up again with better, stronger, lighter part essentialy leaving a "stock frame, chassis, shell etc, just lighter faster better.

I did not realize they were more like Nascars just a shell over a purpose built every thing else.

And after knowing that im even less inclined to become a V8SC bogan

sort of like watch pharlap and pharlaps clone in a race just with different jockeys zzzZZZZZZ

It used to be the case a few years ago that teams had shells sent direct from the factory. My dad did some work on them making sure the pedal box area had brackets removed that the teams didn't require, they told the factory what they needed and didn't need and the shells were made and sent to them for the roll cage and everything else to be added. That changed a few years ago when the teams started building them from scratch, the chassis and rollcage were built up then the panels hung over the top.

Quote:

Originally Posted by burnz

in short their is nothing holden of ford in a v8sc (engine excluded)

gearbox: nope not holden or ford..
diff: nope not holden or ford..
suspension: nope not holden or ford..

as for the other coments: i see a lot more fords running chev's with 2speed powerglide and 9"
than any other combo.

holdens yes with the 9" but never a toploader.. sag, muncie, m21. but never a toploader.

No ones saying the Ford parts the Holdens run are directly supplied from Ford, they are saying the parts they use are based on Ford parts. The diffs are custom made 9 inchers, they would use aftermarket 9 inch parts from diff suppliers like MW etc, with some components custom made. You'd have to say most of the diff parts they use would work in a factory 9 inch.

Holdens front suspension is copied on the Ford double wishbone setup, not the crappy McPherson struts the Commodore has.

Heads are the Ford type non siamesed port style. I've never seen a production small block Chev with non siamesed ports, not counting the LS1 which is significantly different to the original small block the Holden engines are based on.

Toploaders in Holdens was a very popular mod done in the 70's, 80's and 90's. Its not a common thing done now, now that there are a lot of suitable gearboxes available now, Tremecs etc. Back before Tremecs became available the toploader was probably the strongest manual available to use so thats why Holden owners used them.

The only Fords that run powerglides are pretty much purpose built drag cars. You won't see many if any Fords run powerglides in a street car.

TC200six · 14-10-2011, 03:56 PM

We should also realise that V8 Supercars don't use factory sheet metal anymore. All door skins, mudguards, etc. are made from lightweight "composite" materials

351ciofgrunt · 14-10-2011, 04:14 PM

It doesn't bother me that V8SC have nothing in common with their road going counterparts, that's not why I watch motorracing. I like watching NASCAR too and again it doesn't bother me that they have nothing in common with road cars.

Iggypoppin' · 14-10-2011, 04:33 PM

I've always thought that V8SC is a crock. I'm sick of the field being only Holden and ford, there's barely any competition any more.
Bring back the production cars! F6, GT SC, R8, GTS, deck them out with proper safety gear and a few tweaks but otherwise they will be the same engined cars used on the road. Then, shock horror, LET OTHER MANUFACTURERS COMPETE! it's boring otherwise! Can't people see this?
I see photos from the old days with cossies, GT falcons(bloody real ones), tough holdens and GTR skylines in them. Imagine how much more entertaining those races would have been?
Instead we are stuck with "Holden" and "ford" cars that have barely anything to do with their road going brothers and a crowd of dimwitted bogans who think these cars are actually similiar to their road going cars.
And they wonder why die hard fans of racing like myself are switching off the tv and not watching? Because it's boring. Lap after lap of boredom.

PHANTMXR6 · 14-10-2011, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TC200six

We should also realise that V8 Supercars don't use factory sheet metal anymore. All door skins, mudguards, etc. are made from lightweight "composite" materials

Not true.

Front guards, bonnet, bumpers are composite, but door skins and the rest are all still sheetmetal.

TC200six · 14-10-2011, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PHANTMXR6

Not true.

Front guards, bonnet, bumpers are composite, but door skins and the rest are all still sheetmetal.

The doors don't use the same hinging from that time at Bathurst last year when one of the HRT car's door lifted straight off. But as 351ciofgrunt said, it doesn't bother me if they aren't the same as their road-going counterparts because that's not why follow it. I've gained a team/driver following, which is the way the series should be followed, not this whether a Ford or Holden wins rubbish

smally289 · 14-10-2011, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TC200six

I've gained a team/driver following, which is the way the series should be followed, not this whether a Ford or Holden wins rubbish

This is not how it is marketed. Touring car racing (particularly Bathurst) has always been a Ford V Holden affair. The current rules are losing that heritage and that's what most people are complaining about.

kts350 · 14-10-2011, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aussie muscle

i believe its the headlights and taillights.
also
the holden racecar is shorter than the commodore!

The VE racecar had to be shortened to fit into the rules.
The COTF crap is just making the V8's into nascar..
Should be back to the days where they had to run what the factory produced, I think they should go back to the days of mixed classes and a grid of 40 odd cars. Watching old bathurst vids and seeing a grid full looks so much better then
the half empty grid of today.

XRtowcar · 14-10-2011, 10:01 PM

Have given up following V8Superbores.
No point following cars because as mentioned they're nothing to do with the factory cars anyhow, and i cant be bothered the drivers as any of them with any personality get fined by Cochrane until they shut their traps and behave.
Got to look after that corporate dollar.

PHANTMXR6 · 14-10-2011, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TC200six

The doors don't use the same hinging from that time at Bathurst last year when one of the HRT car's door lifted straight off. But as 351ciofgrunt said, it doesn't bother me if they aren't the same as their road-going counterparts because that's not why follow it. I've gained a team/driver following, which is the way the series should be followed, not this whether a Ford or Holden wins rubbish

Why did you state something that is incorrect then?

Door hinges have nothing to do with composite panels.

If it was your opinion or understanding then that is what you should have written. So many people get on here and write something they think is true and many others jump on the bandwagon with no idea, as long as it sounds right.

My opinion is if you don't like the current formula then either find something else to follow or STFU and deal with it. Life goes on...........

No offence TC200six, as this isn't aimed at you, but why do people get on here and complain about the current racing, then say they no longer follow the sport because of the rules and regulations and bag the guts out of it?

I don't see the logic in it.

I mean, isn't it easy to just push a button on the tv remote and watch something else??

Sorry, rant off.

edit: if you want somewhere else to vent, try this link.

http://fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11345516

351ciofgrunt · 15-10-2011, 02:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FPVGT500

Ford have their own 5.0 NA engine in V8SC so i dont know what most are going on about

The engine in a ford V8SC is comprised entirely from aftermarket and / or custom components, there is not a single engine part used that is manufactured by ford. So not sure what you mean by it being ford's own engine?

eed-250 · 15-10-2011, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FordFairlaneAU

Only true Ford Vs Holden racing it the utes.

Really? I believe the Holden utes are de-tuned so the Fords can keep up!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iggypoppin'

I've always thought that V8SC is a crock. I'm sick of the field being only Holden and ford, there's barely any competition any more.
Bring back the production cars! F6, GT SC, R8, GTS, deck them out with proper safety gear and a few tweaks but otherwise they will be the same engined cars used on the road. Then, shock horror, LET OTHER MANUFACTURERS COMPETE! it's boring otherwise! Can't people see this?
I see photos from the old days with cossies, GT falcons(bloody real ones), tough holdens and GTR skylines in them. Imagine how much more entertaining those races would have been?
Instead we are stuck with "Holden" and "ford" cars that have barely anything to do with their road going brothers and a crowd of dimwitted bogans who think these cars are actually similiar to their road going cars.
And they wonder why die hard fans of racing like myself are switching off the tv and not watching? Because it's boring. Lap after lap of boredom.

I totally agree with your ideas and I'd love to see it happen BUT look how many Holden supporters are out there? If this series was to take over V8SC Holden supporters would be sick of losing and wouldn't watch anymore. I suppose I could say the same for the majority of Ford supporters too.

AMGC63 · 15-10-2011, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 351ciofgrunt

The engine in a ford V8SC is comprised entirely from aftermarket and / or custom components, there is not a single engine part used that is manufactured by ford. So not sure what you mean by it being ford's own engine?

Not quite right, the heads and block are Ford motorsport items.