Dangerous carriage of a load

[3vXT]

Originally Posted by Full Noise

Bulls**t, you don’t stop him from leaving. You just refuse to sell him the timber unless he is prepared to transport it in a safe and legal manner.

Simple as that.

what he said.

[XR6_190]

Just remembered another one, about 2 years ago my neighbours moved out. Not far away, just about a 5 minute drive (newer and much bigger home). anyway, because it wasn't far, they decided to do the moving themselves, He just borrowed a Hiace van from someone at work.

Anyway, most things weren't a problem for them, until it got to his monster of a Plasma TV, 65 inches or something, he couldn't think for the life of him how to transport the thing, until he came up with this bright idea, put it in the back of the Hiace, standing up, with HIS TWO KIDS STANDING in the back, keeping it upright, while he drives down the road.

How these people don't have more serious accidents is beyond me.

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by Full Noise

Bulls**t, you don’t stop him from leaving. You just refuse to sell him the timber unless he is prepared to transport it in a safe and legal manner.

Simple as that.

Bit hard if the guy has already paid for it days prior as he had to order it in....
Or if they go to the counter and buy 50 bags of concrete, then start loading their Excel up....If the vehicle is already loaded and has been paid for it, theres nothing you can really do.

You stop them, In theory they call the police, they come and tell you if you dont let them leave you will be charged, as soon as they leave the yard the police pull them over for an unsecured/dangerous load.

Same as when I went to pick up a Argon cylinder in the Falcon, they recommended that it should be transported in a Ute, but they said they couldnt stop me from putting it in the boot and driving away. They also couldnt help to put it in the car.

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by Full Noise

I think you’re living in that place called Dreamland.

There’s a new set of laws called the “Chain of Responsibility”. It was originally designed for truck drivers, however, it can quite easily be adapted to hang someone like you if this clown makes a terrible mistake.

If he kills someone of the way home and you willingly let him drive out of the gate knowing (or reasonably ought to have known) that the load was not secured properly, make no mistake about it. You will go down with him.

Don’t be fooled in thinking that there’s nothing that the law can do about it. He fired the gun, you sold him the bullets. You go down too.

If I sell product to a customer and they leave the store with it, it is no way my responsiblilty to chase those down that don't secure it. I ahve seen some silly things and told them to secure it better, but in the end it isnt my responsibility ....

Was sitting at a set of lights and a car with a trailer full of bricks stopped next to me. The bricks kept going though over the boot and into the rear window. Lights changed and I left ..... they had crap loads of cleaning up to do!



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[mik]

the best (most moronic) i have seen is a bloke standing up in the back of a 6x4 trailer steadying a very large house fridge, while traveling about 60 kph down a busey road .

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

Bit hard if the guy has already paid for it days prior as he had to order it in....
Or if they go to the counter and buy 50 bags of concrete, then start loading their Excel up....If the vehicle is already loaded and has been paid for it, theres nothing you can really do.

You stop them, In theory they call the police, they come and tell you if you dont let them leave you will be charged, as soon as they leave the yard the police pull them over for an unsecured/dangerous load.

Same as when I went to pick up a Argon cylinder in the Falcon, they recommended that it should be transported in a Ute, but they said they couldnt stop me from putting it in the boot and driving away. They also couldnt help to put it in the car.

Time for a reality check.

CRIMINAL CODE 1899 - SECT 355
355 Deprivation of liberty
Any person who unlawfully confines or detains another in any place against the other person's will, or otherwise unlawfully deprives another of the other person's personal liberty, is guilty of a misdemeanour, and is liable to imprisonment for 3 years.

The above quote is from the QLD criminal code but most states will be very similar.

Notice that it says "Any person who unlawfully confines or detains another in any place against the other person's will". If you have a lawful obligation to prevent the person from carrying out a dangerous act, that is lawful detention. Therefore it is not deprivation of liberty.

Bit hard if the guy has already paid for it days prior as he had to order it in....
Or if they go to the counter and buy 50 bags of concrete, then start loading their Excel up....If the vehicle is already loaded and has been paid for it, theres nothing you can really do.

Yes there is, stop him from leaving with it until he has a legal way of moving it.

You stop them, In theory they call the police, they come and tell you if you dont let them leave you will be charged, as soon as they leave the yard the police pull them over for an unsecured/dangerous load.

Refer to above extract from criminal code. No cop is going to charge you if you have prevented a risk to public safety.

In regard to stopping someone from doing something that is obviously a risk to public safety. Law will always accept that it may be better for your own safety not to try and stop the person as this may end in that person physically harming you. Rather a better plan is to ensure you have a witness to you advising the person what they intend on doing is unsafe. Then record the vehicle details and report to the police, thereby fulfilling legal obligations without risk to your own safety.

Now back on topic please, some of these are funny.

[Darkr]

Ive seen a bubble excel leave with the hatch up, passenger window down, passenger holding onto a 20M long peice of PVC tube which went diagnally from almost the ground to about 10M out the window in the air... Wish I got a photo of it, they thought it was a good laugh.

[desGT]

Small truck carrying steel pipes (over cabin) hit brakes hard at lights. Pipes launched right through cabin of car in front and then into my wife's car. Fortunately via passenger side of car in the middle with no one on that side and only into the rear of my wife's car. So many little things could have been different with a very different outcome.

[ADSXR8]

Just this morning I saw a Toyota Hilux broken down south bound near Mt Ousely and it had TWO palets in the back. I kid you not, the front wheels where nearly off the ground. Very dangerous.

[Iggypoppin']

We go so far as to inform the customer of the legality of loading a vehicle, and then it's out of my hands. Meaning me, personally, am not allowed to tell a customer he can't leave, I just have to tell my manager if it's dangerous and it goes from there. Problem is they are still allowed to leave with unsecured loads. I think this is because we personally do not load vehicles and as the customer loaded it it is his responsibility. Trade vehicles we do load, and at customer request we load but if that's the case it MUST be done properly.

[388cube_edxr8]

I drove a 1990 3spd auto laser hatch with bald tyres across Brisbane with a 1996 lancer on a car trailer hitched up to the back. that was an interesting drive, especially the hill starts...

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by 388cube_edxr8

I drove a 1990 3spd auto laser hatch with bald tyres across Brisbane with a 1996 lancer on a car trailer hitched up to the back. that was an interesting drive, especially the hill starts...

No wonder, considering you easily would have exceeded the towing capacity of the Laser :

[388cube_edxr8]

Originally Posted by geckoGT

No wonder, considering you easily would have exceeded the towing capacity of the Laser :

well duh.

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by SLWXR6

We go so far as to inform the customer of the legality of loading a vehicle, and then it's out of my hands. Meaning me, personally, am not allowed to tell a customer he can't leave, I just have to tell my manager if it's dangerous and it goes from there. Problem is they are still allowed to leave with unsecured loads. I think this is because we personally do not load vehicles and as the customer loaded it it is his responsibility. Trade vehicles we do load, and at customer request we load but if that's the case it MUST be done properly.

I don't and wouldn't tell my staff to advise on the legalities on load ...... unless it is so obviously stupid. Even then it isn't up to those selling the goods to advice as none of mine or most staff at the loading docks know what the legalities are!



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[XR6_190]

Originally Posted by 388cube_edxr8

I drove a 1990 3spd auto laser hatch with bald tyres across Brisbane with a 1996 lancer on a car trailer hitched up to the back. that was an interesting drive, especially the hill starts...

And you are willing to admit to this?

[Clive Kennedy]

Originally Posted by SLWXR6

i work in a timber yard....you do NOT want to see what we see. most tradies secure all loads correctly. then you have the "home handyman" who comes in, in his wifes charade or somesuch tiny car, and buys 30 metres of pine soldiers. about 38 by 38 and 5.4 mtrs long, and he cant cut them. so he has the back seat down, timber on an angle, 3 metres hangin out of passenger window and he refuses to change it. fortunatly for us, we don't have any legal responsibility to stop him. his mistake is his. i shuddered though when a motorcyclist purchased 5 70x35 4.8 pine lengths. and just "shouldered" them, not even taped together! thought we'd see a death from that! how does he change gears?? worst was when my work mate and i and some others where on smoko and a tradie lost half his scaffolding equipment, nearly kneecapped my workmate and smashed into one of the cars parked on our side of the street. he kept driving too! we held his stuff for a bit and made sure to grab the rego. worst thing was he was driving a very nice XR8 ute 290. and he made no apology for the accident later just signed us a cheque for the car and left.
the worst part is, people dont learn, so many repeat idiots do it time and again.

Have you heard of CHAIN OF RESPONSIBILITY he loads up out of your yard and you let him ,you can be charged by the RTA if hes caught or has an accident. You do have a resposnsility and the fines are very steep for individuals and steeper for companies. Just a heads up you might want to make some enquiries.

[Spudz27]

Seen a car the other day, had wood slats on the roof, the passenger was holding them on the roof. I was behind trying to get around them. Every bump he would have to re adjust his grip as they would slide.

[Wardo]

Once saw a guy driving a XF ute loaded to the top of the canopy with phone books, he had a trailer on the back piled high as well . He was flat out moving, I wonder if he passed physics at school?

[brenx]

I see stuff like this every day on the roads. It's done by people who are stealing the steel out of our runs. They have little tray trucks, utes, car trailers, cars loaded up to around 3.5-4.0 metres high tied with a single tiny nylon rope. They get big fines for taking the steel when caught as it is but they still risk carrying loads dangerously with Vicroads and the police. Wished I had pics of them all. I do have a few on my phone.

[XR Martin]

The Chain of responsibility laws makes no mention of retailers....
It would be hard to implement in the retail sector as in theory even a checkout chic at Woolies could be charged if a family bought 10 slabs of beer and put them on the backseat next to a small child. Then the car was involved in a crash where the slabs crushed the child...
Or cashier at Harvey Norman who allowed a dining table to be transported in a wagon with no cargo barrier....
etc
etc

The chain of responsibility – where are you in the chain?

All parties in the road transport supply chain are responsible for preventing a breach of road transport laws. This is called the chain of responsibility. It recognises the effects of the actions, inactions and demands of off-the-road parties in the transport chain.

All parties in the supply chain – consignor/dispatcher, packer, loader, consignee/receiver, manager, as well as the driver and operator – must take positive steps to prevent a breach of the road transport mass, dimension and loading and driving hours laws.
Roles and responsibilities

The different positions in the chain of responsibility are outlined below. You can also download a table outlining the chain of responsibility from the box at the bottom of this page.

Consignor/dispatcher
Dispatches goods for delivery. Must make sure that your delivery request doesn’t require a truck driver to:

* Transport goods that go beyond vehicle dimension or mass limits.
* Inappropriately secure the load.
* Exceed the permitted number of driving hours.
* Fail to have minimum rest periods.
* Exceed the speed limits.

Consignee/receiver
Orders and/or accepts the goods being delivered. Has the same responsibilities as the consignor/dispatcher plus:

* Must not knowingly encourage or reward a breach of the mass, dimension, load restraint or driving hours laws.

Loader
Loads goods onto the vehicle. Must make sure the vehicle’s load:

* Doesn't exceed the dimension or mass limits.
* Cannot become unstable, move or fall off the vehicle.

Packer
Packs goods to be loaded onto the vehicle. Must make sure that when goods are packed:

* Documentation of the load is accurate, not false or misleading.
* Any goods packed in freight containers don’t exceed the container’s gross weight or safety approval rating.

Heavy vehicle driver
Transports the load to its destination. Must maintain current obligations to make sure:

* The vehicle does not exceed dimension or mass limits.
* The load is appropriately restrained.
* All required equipment is properly fitted to the vehicle.
* Required rest breaks are taken and driving hours regulations and speed limits are observed.
* Safe and responsible driving behaviour is demonstrated at all times.

Operator/manager
Operates and/or manages the business dispatching the goods. Is responsible for making sure that:

* Rosters do not require truck drivers to exceed the permitted number of driving hours.
* Accurate records are kept of drivers’ activities, including driving, work and rest times.
* Vehicle speed limiters are functioning.
* Loads do not exceed dimension or mass limits and are properly restrained using appropriate restraint equipment.

[Iggypoppin']

I had a word to the boss. A tougher stance on this will be implemented from now on. While it's not 100% our fault, this sort of thing works both ways.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

The Chain of responsibility laws makes no mention of retailers....
It would be hard to implement in the retail sector as in theory even a checkout chic at Woolies could be charged if a family bought 10 slabs of beer and put them on the backseat next to a small child. Then the car was involved in a crash where the slabs crushed the child...
Or cashier at Harvey Norman who allowed a dining table to be transported in a wagon with no cargo barrier....
etc
etc

No cashier would be mentioned or help responsible for the simple fact that they did not see the vehicle loaded. The discussion has been about employees involved in a sale watching someone load the good in a dangerous manner.

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by geckoGT

No cashier would be mentioned or help responsible for the simple fact that they did not see the vehicle loaded. The discussion has been about employees involved in a sale watching someone load the good in a dangerous manner.

Who says the cashier doesnt see the vehicle loaded? Last time I looked the checkouts of a few supermarkets near me are near the front door....where cars are parked....Granted some supermarkets arnt near the carpark, but not all.

[Iggypoppin']

doubt yuo'd see a checkout chick from coles rushing out to stop someone overloading a vehicle though...

[bcr2734]

Originally Posted by auslandau

I don't and wouldn't tell my staff to advise on the legalities on load ...... unless it is so obviously stupid. Even then it isn't up to those selling the goods to advice as none of mine or most staff at the loading docks know what the legalities are!

You are one of those people that say it won't happen. You could be proactive and take your people to DECA for a load restrant course and help your customers. Because you cannot have repeat business if they didn't survive the trip last time!

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by bcr2734

You are one of those people that say it won't happen. You could be proactive and take your people to DECA for a load restrant course and help your customers. Because you cannot have repeat business if they didn't survive the trip last time!

As far as the law on this goes, I know enough that alot of what has been said here is not all correct ...... bordering on the ridiculous!



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[steamin63]

Originally Posted by Full Noise

Bulls**t, you don’t stop him from leaving. You just refuse to sell him the timber unless he is prepared to transport it in a safe and legal manner.

Simple as that.

what are you saying. he should go out and check every customers vehicle to ensure it is compliant before he makes a sale.

[Full Noise]

Originally Posted by steamin63

what are you saying. he should go out and check every customers vehicle to ensure it is compliant before he makes a sale.

Yep… because that’s the way the world’s going.

Quick question.
Would your attitude be different if a member of your family was impaled and bled to death in your passenger seat because some knob decided to bring his timber home holding it down on his roof with his arm out the window?

At the end of the day, I couldn’t give a **** about what any of you people think about this issue. The simple fact is that the world is changing and those who don’t adapt to the changes will find out the hard way what a cosy cell with Bubba feels like.

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by Full Noise

Quick question.
Would your attitude be different if a member of your family was impaled and bled to death in your passenger seat because some knob decided to bring his timber home holding it down on his roof with his arm out the window?

At the end of the day ..... I wouldn't be chasing Bunnings to sue the person that sold him the timber!

On Bunnings .... one of the most stringent of retailers concerning work practices, training and everything that goes with it ...... I havn't as yet met the bloke who stands at the entrance inspecting all the cars to ensure that their goods are secured?



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[Daymoe]

Originally Posted by auslandau

At the end of the day ..... I wouldn't be chasing Bunnings to sue the person that sold him the timber!

On Bunnings .... one of the most stringent of retailers concerning work practices, training and everything that goes with it ...... I havn't as yet met the bloke who stands at the entrance inspecting all the cars to ensure that their goods are secured?

Not at Broadmeadows, my mum gets in crap all the time for following the rules, which I find hilarious because if you know what the suburb is like, you can figure out their management too. WORST BUNNINGS STORE EVER.