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#31 | |||
_Oo===oO_
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Australia
Posts: 3,305
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Quote:
People tend to NGAF if a newer version of the same product or a different product from the same manufacturer is desirable to them (and they haven't been affected by a previous issue with said manufacturer) |
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#32 | ||
Electronics Technician
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 12
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I have a 2010 MB Mondeo Titanium which I have had since new. It has had all the symptoms that were mentioned in the court case. Several times I went back to the dealer under warranty with no luck. The problem now is much worse. It surges every couple of seconds and occasionally stalls. This was the first DSG brought to Australia. Next week I will take it back to the dealer and then the ACCC. Never again will I buy a car with DSG.
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#33 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,350
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[QUOTE=csv8;6124210]Why wasn't the fault found during testing before it went on sale? Surely, for many kms of testing ?/QUOTE]
I don't think they do the testing like they like they did in previous years. How many recalls do we see today? Australian cars have had mandatory setbelts for around 50 years, ZB on sale for a couple of months and a recalll for seatblets. ACCC lists 2393 car recalls Toyota 189, Holden 179, Ford 169, Mercedes Benz 156 etc |
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#34 | |||
IWCMOGTVM Club Supporter
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern Suburbs Melbourne
Posts: 17,798
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[QUOTE=EBSXR6;6124796]
Quote:
This particular issue was the wrong choice for the car. Just remember vw ran the same rubbish box but they got away with it.
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Daniel |
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#35 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Perth
Posts: 1,315
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Hi,
There are currently 9 manufacturers of DCT / DSG transmissions. Some of these uses wet clutches, some of these uses dry clutches. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual-clutch_transmission Here is a previous thread on this forum about the technical details: https://fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11410755 It seems the main problem for Fiesta / Focus is the design using dry clutches, (cheaper than wet clutches) and they are electrically actuated rather than hydraulic. |
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#36 | ||||
Peter Car
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: geelong
Posts: 23,145
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Quote:
[QUOTE=EBSXR6] Quote:
If anything testing is much more comprehensive now and the protocols are much stricter. And companies can’t get away with the things they used to. |
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#37 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: St Marys Tasmania
Posts: 3,556
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What was supposed to be the great new thing for these troublesome tranny's anyway in deference to a more conventional transmission ?.
Sounds a bit like the four wheel steer 'innovation' of the mid to late 1990's when a few manufacturers went down that path .. A BMW big wig was asked at the time why they weren't heading down that track in a Wheels article and he responded with (paraphrasing) "Why complicate things when our cars handle as well as they do " He was right as it happens . Don't think it was a big success or taken on by too many at the time or since. |
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#38 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,271
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It's basically an automated manual transmission with no slip in gears
but they screwed up by putting a cheaper dry clutch set up on it, the wet clutch versions on Euro diesels is a dream in comparison. Since the advent of in gear converter lock up, conventional autos are now the way to go, Ford's new autos are all in house with no royalties. |
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#39 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Capricornia
Posts: 829
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Surely, with the problems surfacing, Ford should have been able to take Getrag for a walk. Shouldn't have Getrag been either repairing or replacing the transmissions, as part of their responsibilities?
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#40 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Perth
Posts: 1,315
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I guess Getrag's responsibilities depend on how much of the development and design instructions came from Ford in the first place. It looks like only one Fiat model and Focus/Fiesta are the only two DCT / DSG models attempting to use cheaper dry clutches.
I watched a Youtube documentary, 20 minutes of a reporter explaining Ford Australia's side of the story. It explains there have been 3 or more individual problems with the transmission. First an oil leak that makes the clutches contaminated with oil, then electronics failure where a chip overheats / breaks in the control unit causing slower processing of the gear shifting, then finally a unsuitable clutch friction material that does not handle all the heat in a hot Australian climate. For the general owner this all translates to 'sh*t car, faulty transmission'. According to Ford when all these modifications are in place there shouldn't be any further problems for up to another 100.000 km, (usual wear of clutches etc). ... that's if we believe them. |
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#41 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 966
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We got our money back after a lot of return trips to dealer, and purchased a new Toyota. My wife would not even consider a ford again.
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#42 | |||
Render unto Caesar
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: ::1
Posts: 4,221
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Quote:
Renault is using it on their latest Megane RS and other makes across the board are too.
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"Aliens might be surprised to learn that in a cosmos with limitless starlight, humans kill for energy sources buried in sand." - Neil deGrasse Tyson |
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#43 | |||
_Oo===oO_
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Australia
Posts: 3,305
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Quote:
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#44 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 3,867
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Quote:
Spot on there with the facts. Every time I took the Focus for a service the only complaint was the transmission - hesitant, juddery, noisy. The hesitancy to change gears sometimes was dangerous - especially on the M4 Motorway. So much so my wife was scared to drive it in the end, so it had to go. I didn't want to sell privately for 2 reasons - values had dropped a lot once the class action became knowledge and secondly I didn't feel comfortable passing on a car with such an obvious flaw. Same dealer gave us a great deal on an Escape Trend demo with a couple of option packs. It's a great medium SUV, not as well equipped as the Titanium Focus, but the wife loves it.
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Currently no V8 in the garage! |
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#45 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 22,898
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Can't say I feel sorry for Ford.
I remember Whickman saying he refuted the ACCC's allegations last year. He refuted the issue straight up. Instead of owning it and coming out and saying we are sorry, we have muffed this up and will work towards fixing it. I have been dealing with Ford for the last 15 years and they have never been good to deal with. Nothing has ever been fixed with no fuss as far as Ford CRC go, its always turned into some sort of **** fight where I have had to plead my case and continually chase them up. All I can say is sucked in and I hope all affected customers get their money back plus some for the pain and suffering Ford has caused. A motor vehicle is most peoples second biggest asset so they should be able to buy a new one with confidence it will do the job for atleast 5 - 7 years. Some of these cars were failing before the first inspection.
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2022 RAM Laramie 5.7 2023.50 Ranger Wildtrak 3.0 V6 Premium Pack 2024 Everest Sport 3.0 V6 Touring Pack 2024.50 Mustang Darkhorse 6M Blue Ember + Appearance pack ETA Jan 25. |
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#46 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 3,633
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Quote:
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#47 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: WA
Posts: 3,705
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I lay 50% of the blame on government for this saga.
We need lemon laws. Transparency is good for everyone, in the long run.
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www.bseries.com.au/mercurybullet 2016 Falcon XR8. Powered by the legend that is - David Winter. XC Cobra #181. 1985 Mack Superliner, CAT 3408, 24 speed Allison. |
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#48 | ||
Ford screwed the Falcon
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 7,044
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Serves them right.Toilet of a company.
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Falcon: 1960 - 2016 My cars Current ride 2016 FG X XR6 - 6 speed manual Previous rides 2009 FG XR6 - 6 speed auto 2006 BF MkII XT ESP - 6 speed auto 2003 BA XT V8 - 5 speed manual 1999 AU Forte - 5 speed manual 1997 EL Fairmont - 4 speed auto 1990 EAII Fairmont Ghia - 4 speed auto |
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#49 | ||
Barra Turbo > V8
![]() ![]() Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 25,695
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Why do you even bother honestly. Still some butt hurt about the falcon lingering I see
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-2011 XR6 Turbo Ute - Lux Pack - M6 -2022 Hyundai Tucson Highlander Diesel N Line |
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#50 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: St Marys Tasmania
Posts: 3,556
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The only good thing about this is that these potential disasters were NOT built in Australia .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAZjwW-pcXI No wonder these Aussies were angry and disgusted with this imported crap . No major troubles like this with the local stuff . Not on this scale anyway. |
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#51 | |||
Donating Member
![]() Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 12,155
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Quote:
As much as we love our aussie built Fords (and Holdens), they were all built to a price by cost driven American companies. They were hardly a paragon of build quality. (This from a die hard Falcon man that has taken the rose tinted glasses off).
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PX MK II Ranger FG XR6 FG X XR8 Mustang GT T3 TS50 - gone but not forgotten |
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#52 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 501
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The $ 10 million was not about the abysmal product , it was for the fraudulent, corrupt dealings with customers.
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#53 | ||
Za Dom spremni
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 1,759
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Love your passion for the falcon and I tend to agree. :
![]() My sister is one of those duped by fraud . She bought her pos focus titanium new and has had no end of problems with the trans with endless excuses from the stealer. It's the Only new car she has ever been able to buy and she couldn't afford the financial hit to get out of it with the values tanking once the press and public caught on. Should have bought the Mazda. But hey we are/ were a "ford" family. ![]()
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2017 red mustang GT manual XB coupe 351 4spd sunroof onyx black XBGT 4 door Sunroof apollo blue AU III XR8 red ute |
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#54 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: WA
Posts: 3,705
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Quote:
My Volvo is no more reliable than any ford/Holden I've owned. The big difference is paint quality, metal thickness and they don't rust. It's also over 2.2 tonnes for a sedan! But wait until they break down. $2000 for rhs mirror. $4000 for brakes. $1800 for coil packs. Our cars may break, but they are at least affordable to fix. That said, I agree cost cutting has gone too far.
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www.bseries.com.au/mercurybullet 2016 Falcon XR8. Powered by the legend that is - David Winter. XC Cobra #181. 1985 Mack Superliner, CAT 3408, 24 speed Allison. |
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#55 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: St Marys Tasmania
Posts: 3,556
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Quote:
They were/are XB , XE , EF , AU (still going great) , BA and FG (current as well) . Single biggest issue was an A/C leak in the EF , a dodgy GPS with the BA Fairmont Ghia and an issue with original AU Stereo when it began picking and choosing if it'd read a CD or not . Not perfect cars but not bloody bad either built to a price or not . |
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#56 | |||
Donating Member
![]() Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 12,155
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Quote:
Imported or not, all cars have their issues. The reality is, it comes down to how the manufactures react to them and, sadly, Ford didn't own up to the issues and fought their customers until they got taken to the principles office and given cuts.
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PX MK II Ranger FG XR6 FG X XR8 Mustang GT T3 TS50 - gone but not forgotten |
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#57 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Catland
Posts: 3,599
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Quote:
In trying to save the last spec of juice from drivetrains in the late 2000s, engineers developed dry clutch DSG, twinchargers, direct injection collecting carbon furiously on the back of valves and clogging motors, the experience of hesitation on acceleration from both dsg and cvt, whining flaring of cvt on hard acceleration... Diesel became popular and the joy of $1k injector replacements and blocked dpf filters became known. Mazda refined its conventional torque converter autos and developed skyactiv engines, with skyactivX in the wings, probably the most exciting ICE advancement of late. And they are reliable. Toyota stuck with their hybrid system and delivered, and now its expanding. Also note the new Tojo direct injection petrol motors also inject indirectly onto the back of the valves... And they are reliable. This is what Ford is up against now they compete directly without a unique selling point platform like the Falcon.
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I6 + AWD |
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#58 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: St Marys Tasmania
Posts: 3,556
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#59 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: A.C.T
Posts: 1,569
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#60 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: A.C.T
Posts: 1,569
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