Why is the orion falcon coming out in march 2008? - Page 2

Brute6 · 13-11-2006, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by falconlover

Just remember its a brand new model there will be engineer innovations. Whats so bad about a supercharger?

I'm not saying anything bad about a supercharger? I'm just saying that for something to work in a positive way for the current line up it would need a decent injection of power?
But I know there will be no supercharging........for a fair while.

vztrt · 13-11-2006, 12:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by falconlover

Do you have any pics vztrt?

Ahh no, but the lineup of cars coming is very nice.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brute6

Supercharge it to get an extra 30 odd kW's?

You mean 10kw as the BOSS XR8 has 260fwkw.

LTDHO · 13-11-2006, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by falconlover

Why has ford Australia made the orion falcon launch so far away? The ve will of been out for 20months! Also there is still 17 months until it is on sale. Any comments?

_2:

IMO it has nothing to R&D and time take to build a car as vehicles are designed 5 to 7 years before release.

Simple fact is Ford is slack and always seem to do thinga after Holden. I hate it big time and it is not helping FoMoCo. But I'm sure they know what they are doing...

**Polyal** · 13-11-2006, 09:08 AM

Um LTDHO, is that your damn sarcasim again? I just cant pick it, you need a smilie.

An "all new" car will take 5 years min from drawing table to end product, and that basically without stuff going wrong. Add to that supplier issues, weather issues, manufacturing issue the list goes on.

If Ford could make a new model in two years they probably still wont release it for 5 anyway, a ~$800M model every couple of years just doesn't work unless you have volume; which Australia doesn't.

LTDHO · 13-11-2006, 09:54 AM

Polyal, no sarcasm this time.

Hence why I said cars are designed and protyped during 5-7 years not 2.

So I am very disapointed with Ford

GXL078 · 13-11-2006, 09:57 AM

Orion is a DUMB name, almost as dumb as Forte, but typical FORD. Orion is a airplane and sounds too similar to AURION, the Toyota AVALON replacement. But at least Toyota has learnt its lessons. They stuffed up by using Barry Humpries (cross dresser) to advertise the AVALON, but the ads for the AURION make me almost want to go out and buy on, until I saw how crap they look.

**Polyal** · 13-11-2006, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LTDHO

Polyal, no sarcasm this time.

Hence why I said cars are designed and protyped during 5-7 years not 2.

So I am very disapointed with Ford

Well there are alot of things that slow progress down, remember at the end of the day holden and foa have to go back kissing butt in the US.

Also when you rush things you make mistakes, building a car obviously is not something you want to stuff up.

But then again, all the time in the world wont pick everything up.

**Polyal** · 13-11-2006, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xcgxl

Orion is a DUMB name, almost as dumb as Forte, but typical FORD. Orion is a airplane and sounds too similar to AURION, the Toyota AVALON replacement. But at least Toyota has learnt its lessons. They stuffed up by using Barry Humpries (cross dresser) to advertise the AVALON, but the ads for the AURION make me almost want to go out and buy on, until I saw how crap they look.

Jesus.....to be honest, while it will never happen, the general public isn't even really meant to know the code names anyway. They are just "nik names" if you will, they mean nothing. And if they do mean something then its in jest usually; Seagull for example was the I6T....

NC_GHIA · 13-11-2006, 10:55 AM

Is there any pics of it?

Hawk · 13-11-2006, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xcgxl

Orion is a DUMB name, almost as dumb as Forte, but typical FORD. Orion is a airplane and sounds too similar to AURION, the Toyota AVALON replacement. But at least Toyota has learnt its lessons. They stuffed up by using Barry Humpries (cross dresser) to advertise the AVALON, but the ads for the AURION make me almost want to go out and buy on, until I saw how crap they look.

It is a codename and, fwiw, I think the Orion name is a good one. The Orion name would have probably been decided on as a codename before Aurion anyway.

I can't stand Barry Humpfries, but I think the fact that the Avalon looked dated from the start and drove and handled poorly was probably more the point as to why it failed.

MarkAW · 13-11-2006, 03:18 PM

Unfortunately during that long development period marketing also has a hand to play. Whilst most of the forum members have a preference for bulk Horsepower, race track handling and slick styling; the majority of purchaser's have very little interest in this. Many seem to get really hyped over a percieved lack of economy that in most cases could be overcome by their own poor driving habits ie foot on brake and accelerator at same time.

In our current high fuel price economy, don't be too surprised if the next model is suddenly changed to provide better fuel economy at the sacrifice of horsepower.

Walkinshaw · 13-11-2006, 03:27 PM

People should have relised the update was to be arround early/mid 2008 anyway.

The fact is that with the 1998 release of the AU Ford unleashed an enormus flop onto the Australian market. FoMoCoAU was not looking very pretty pending the release of the BA, and you could probably put a fair wager on the fact that FoMoCoAU spent alot more on the AU-BA facelift than was initially forcasted pre AU release. Now, FoMoCoAU needs to recoup this over extending of its initial budget and the way to do this is to extend a platform life.

IF in 1998 the AU was released as something decent (ie. BA) then FoMoCoAU could effectivly reduce the platform lifespan as they would not have to fork out a huge sum to rid itself of the horror that was AU, and could invest this time/budget in pulling a new platform forward.

And yes, as above, go and have a look at what it takes to design/engineer/build a new model.

Walkinshaw · 13-11-2006, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkAW

Unfortunately during that long development period marketing also has a hand to play. Whilst most of the forum members have a preference for bulk Horsepower, race track handling and slick styling; the majority of purchaser's have very little interest in this. Many seem to get really hyped over a percieved lack of economy that in most cases could be overcome by their own poor driving habits ie foot on brake and accelerator at same time.

This would be due to who the major purchasers of Falcons are. (ps. they aren't people)

GTP-814 · 13-11-2006, 03:29 PM

With the way fuel is going, lets hope these is a turbo diesel on the way. The latest mazda 6 is supposed to achieve 5l/100k

MarkIV · 13-11-2006, 05:42 PM

Looking at the generational changes since 1971 (ignoring months):-
Holden HQ 71 - VB 7 years Ford XA 72 - XD 7 years
VB - VN 11 years, XD - EA 9 years
VN - VT 8 years, EA - AU 10 years
VT - VE 9 years, AU - Orion 10 years.

Total Holden 35 years, Ford 36 years.
Holden average 8.75 years, Ford 9 years.

Ford has been generally been behind by a year except for the EA (which many would argue was rushed!).

Since the late 70's the average has been 10 years or so with Ford being more consistent. Holden has ranged from 8-11 years.

I guess my point is that 'yes its going to be a long wait until 2008' but it is just the way its always been.

Brute6 · 13-11-2006, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vztrt

You mean 10kw as the BOSS XR8 has 260fwkw.

What I was meaning is that for the supercharger to "be put to good use" it would need a lot more than (for example) 30kW's.
If they were to supercharge it, give it a serious sort of bump in the power/torque department to make it beneficial....

vztrt · 13-11-2006, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LTDHO

Simple fact is Ford is slack and always seem to do thinga after Holden. I hate it big time and it is not helping FoMoCo. But I'm sure they know what they are doing...

Yeah i guess what they should have done is brought it out before the VE and before petrol prices sky rocketed cause that hasn't affected large car sales at all. The timing was actually lucky for Ford as they can still tweak it to try and reduce as much weight as they can and make the car a little more fuel efficient.
Also just because a car has been designed it doesnt mean that it can get built straight away, there are tooling changes (sometimes more than once) and facility modifications that need to be planned, budgeted for approved and installed. Than you might need to tweak things because while it worked at design it won't necessarily work on the manufacturing side of things. So hopefully when you buy your new car there isn't a public recall because it looks bad on the company.

BLOAN · 13-11-2006, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by falconlover

Why has ford Australia made the orion falcon launch so far away? The ve will of been out for 20months! Also there is still 17 months until it is on sale. Any comments?

_2:

I think you will find that Ford actually pushed back the release date because of the late approval from Ford US. I have seen photos & can say that I don't believe there will be any carry over panels from the BA/BF.

falconlover · 13-11-2006, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BLOAN

I think you will find that Ford actually pushed back the release date because of the late approval from Ford US. I have seen photos & can say that I don't believe there will be any carry over panels from the BA/BF.

You've seen photos describe them to me. Whats the late approval from the ford us gotta do with ford aust? Why would there be any carry over panels from ba/bf anyway its a whole new brand new car, oh don't worry ve used the same mirriors. :thebirds:

vztrt · 14-11-2006, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by falconlover

You've seen photos describe them to me. Whats the late approval from the ford us gotta do with ford aust? Why would there be any carry over panels from ba/bf anyway its a whole new brand new car, oh don't worry ve used the same mirriors. :thebirds:

FOA is still controlled by the US, so they give the approval to go ahead.

Grasshoppr · 14-11-2006, 05:54 PM

sleep: too many :MrT_anim:

Outbackjack · 14-11-2006, 08:27 PM

I will be keeping a good lookout from about march next year onwards. Should start seeing them appear in all their black plastic wrapping for heat testing. I would like to also say highway speed testing, but those days seem to be behind us now. And I am not above sneaking around at night with a camera..... :monkes:

Please dont take that out of context.

falconlover · 14-11-2006, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Outbackjack

I will be keeping a good lookout from about march next year onwards. Should start seeing them appear in all their black plastic wrapping for heat testing. I would like to also say highway speed testing, but those days seem to be behind us now. And I am not above sneaking around at night with a camera..... :monkes:

Please dont take that out of context.

Good work outbackjack lol!

:

ltd · 14-11-2006, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Outbackjack

I will be keeping a good lookout from about march next year onwards. Should start seeing them appear in all their black plastic wrapping for heat testing. I would like to also say highway speed testing, but those days seem to be behind us now. And I am not above sneaking around at night with a camera..... :monkes:

Please dont take that out of context.

Yeah, can't wait for those spy shots to be revealed as I'm beyond curious now as to what direction ford will take.

To answer the question as well, one of the reasons as I just posted in the VE to china thread for the delay is that tools and moulds need to be made for the plastics components once the actual final vehicle design is approved. These can take months each and each model will require several tools/moulds.

buddha · 15-11-2006, 12:09 AM

The new car is only nicknamed Orion, just as the BA was nicknamed Barra. There's too much goodwill in the Falcon name to just ditch it at this stage.

Ford Oz does have a lot of hassles with getting approval from Ford HQ, its really frustrating to watch.

Most of you will remember the flack that has come from the AU, but if you go back a little in time you'll recall that Ford HQ wanted Ford Oz to ditch the Falcon as we know it and rebadge the Taurus as Ford's local big car.

That would have meant FWD, gutless little V6 and no V8, bye bye to Fairlane, LTD, Falcon wagon, not to mention V8Supercar and possibly even the ute.

Not good.

LeadFoot81 · 15-11-2006, 01:16 AM

AU didnt go to plan at all for Ford. 18 months after its release Ford did a VX style upgrade (AU2) then came the 500 million dollar BA. Ford has spent up big, and I think everyone has forgotten too easily how much work/money/and how big a change AU2 and BA were. In the same time Ford have had AU-BF2 Holden have made minor tweaks VT-VZ here and there and havent spent nearly as much money as Ford (good on them to get away with it)
Its unfair to complain that the AU platform will run for 10 years, as BA was pretty drastically re-engineered.
Im not disspointed with Ford at all, the fact that therell be a 2008 falcon at all is good enough for me.

uranium_death · 15-11-2006, 01:48 AM

I think that the fact that Ford is not rushing the car out the doors and waiting until 2008 is fantastic news as it means that the car can be properly tested, better designed and hopefully better built.
It will have issues; all new cars do. But hopefully with patience, they will be minimal.

For those wanting the car out ASAP: don't rush it. Rushing a car out causes problems and is merely reactive. As soon as you release a new model from being reactive, you're always going to be behind.

Former Victorian Opposition leader Robert Doyle learned it the hard way.
He had no idea what he was doing and the only thing he ever did as leader of the opposition was respond to Labor's shortcomings with, "It's just not good enough." Reactive. But he had nothing to offer himself, nor could he forecast this problem and offer to help.

No, Ford is doing the right thing by attempting to raise the bar above the VE, which is meant to be the "best car ever built in Australia."

S3SR · 15-11-2006, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b2tf

With the latest Wheels mag there is a DVD all about how Holden R+D'd the VE. Now at risk of bringing VE into this, Id suggest you watch that, it really is an eye opener as to just how much time, effort and money goes into develpment long before you see them on the road.

even though it was all about the holden and mostly about publicity i thought it was a real eye opener to how much work really goes into build a whole new car from scratch.

Boss 290 · 15-11-2006, 01:32 PM

does anyone else think that when orion is released and if its better (and it should be) will there be as much talk and will they say that it is (the best car ever bult in australia)?
or is all this talk from people paid off from holden and ford wont see these kinds of comments? cheers

Grasshoppr · 15-11-2006, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boss 290

does anyone else think that when orion is released and if its better (and it should be) will there be as much talk and will they say that it is (the best car ever bult in australia)?
or is all this talk from people paid off from holden and ford wont see these kinds of comments? cheers

Well they used that kind of statement when BA was launched so I would expect the same from Orion.