TAFE or UNI

[Steve D]

Year 12 as Swinburne TAFE (didn't count that in the poll), engineering at Swinburne Institute of Technology. Between completing the course and graduation, they got University status, so my piece of paper says University. _2:

[parawolf]

Originally Posted by Polyal

I second that..im still at uni, its ok but ive been in the automotive industry on an internship of sorts for nearly 12 months and uni means jack once your in.

Its like w.a.n.k.e.r.s that go on about TER score when they are already in uni...get over it..lol

spot on. Your enter score is a foot in the door to uni/tafe, your certificate is a foot in the door for a career.

It is not like you cannot get a career without a uni/tafe certificate, just need to find a different door.

[bob^]

Uni tends to wrap you in cotton wool when it comes to practical skills. I did one and a hafl years of Mechatronics Engineering at uni and didn't learn much.
Doing an Advance Diploma in Electronic Engineering at TAFE now, and they really do throw you right into the practical stuff.

[Pilch]

Originally Posted by paul7v7

TAFE will teach you something that no one recognises professionally
UNI will charge you a house mortgage and teach you nothing that everyone recognises

to some extent I have to agree. I have a business degree. In the end it's experience that gets you the job, but without qualifications, you won't even get looked at.....

[Dave_au]

Originally Posted by parawolf

Teritary qualifications are a foot in the door, nothing more.

Not if your a chartered accountant, lawyer, engineer, merchant banker, doctor or actuary.

Missed my point. When I said money, I meant - a job with money - eg Merchant Banker, corporate finance, Accountant, Lawyer.

[Thunder]

Originally Posted by Dave_au

Not if your a chartered accountant, lawyer, engineer, merchant banker, doctor or actuary.

Missed my point. When I said money, I meant - a job with money - eg Merchant Banker, corporate finance, Accountant, Lawyer.

What......i know a lot of plumbers, mechanics and builders who earn more money than merchant bankers, accountants and lawyers.

[EFFalcon]

Originally Posted by parawolf

experience + best education? Best education in what though? How much of that engineering degree (as an example, not directed at you) would prepare you for managing a team of say 15, plus balance an expenses budget of a few million and handle business/customer relations.

I can tell you my engineering degree prepared me for none of that. It has exactly zero bearing on my current place of employment.

I got to where I am by working hard, and proving myself in a tight situation time and time again. Rewards are there for the taking.

thats why i said experience.
uni isnt going to prepare you for the real world, experience does that.
uni how ever does give you the formal qualification that is generally favoured in higher positions.
as i said, its not until 10 years down the track that you see the main benefits when one person has 10 years experience and a uni degree, and the other person has 13 years expereience and no degree, ultimately the one with the degree is the more attractive option (on paper anyway)

[SSBUB]

Originally Posted by Thunder

What......i know a lot of plumbers, mechanics and builders who earn more money than merchant bankers, accountants and lawyers.

i dont know of any plumbers that earn as well as a lawyer....you have to weigh up job quality aswell
labouring jobs in trades can get you on equal terms, but sometimes have little room for growth, and before you know it, your 50 bordering on retirement and have been on the same wage for decades and your backs shot
If your in the corperate world you have the chance to climb the ladder and get a cushy desk job - no back complaints

Im not saying this is the norm, but i believe this to be true a lot of the time

[Teki04]

Im currently doing a Bachelor of Property Economics. A few things i have noticed:

- Uni gets you the job... I applied for a job that had 5 applicants already. They took me without considering the rest
- Uni gets you better jobs... Im qualified to be a Real Estate Agent like Tafe people, but they tend to STAY in Real Estate. We are RICs accredited, and hence can move around the globe and move into Property Development, Apprasials and Feasibility studies.... Jobs consist of Macquarie Goodman, Multiplex, and other banks as well.. Just to name a few.
- Most people are given jobs/recommened in their second year.

Im sorry, but for those who say that Uni isn't hard. I ask, HAVE YOU DONE IT? Sure, it might be laid back (i only go 3 times a week) but it sure as hell is NOT easy. This year, ive learnt far more then my friends doing Real Estate Diplomas at TAFE.

[Thunder]

Originally Posted by SSBUB

i dont know of any plumbers that earn as well as a lawyer.........................

Believe me, spend some time in Sydney and you WILL see tradesmen who run their own business with salaries like lawyers.

Im sure other people on this forum will agree? Right?

[Smoked]

Im about to enter my fourth year of civil engineering. I applied for a part time job with a local surveying company and initially i got hired to just to little things like enter info into spreadsheets and verify forms were completed. Now they have got me doing work in the field setting up and recording levels and and angles. All becasue i did a uni subject on surveying.

Oh, and i got a pay rise of $10 an hour too

[Deadman]

Originally Posted by Teki04

Im sorry, but for those who say that Uni isn't hard. I ask, HAVE YOU DONE IT? Sure, it might be laid back (i only go 3 times a week) but it sure as hell is NOT easy. This year, ive learnt far more then my friends doing Real Estate Diplomas at TAFE.

Um... Sure...

I've done 2 degrees at Uni:

Bachelor of Creative Industries / Bachelor of Education (Secondary)

Bachelor of Information Technology

I've got mates who have done Diplomas of IT - and believe me - it S**ts on the Uni degree. It looks SO MUCH harder than Uni. I finished those Uni degrees without even studying - I missed classes, didn't turn up to lectures and still passed ;)

I wouldn't pass the TAFE course - I'm certain. Hats off to those TAFE students because they work a lot harder than some people recognise.

If you ask me (and Teki this is not oreintated at you) there are to many prissy Uni students who don't know S**t all. The degree gets you the first job - from then on, it's how good you actually are and how dedicated you work, that gets you a career. You can't fall back on the piece of paper forever.

: Finished

P.S. - my brother in law works in the UK earning nearl $1 mil AU a year, and dropped out of school in grade 10 to work at a CD store - now works for a International CD company in the UK ;) I myself have got a job which I love, and actually has nothing to do with either degree I did at uni - I got it through hard work in my casual job I did while I was studying and actually got it ahead of people who applied who had done relevant uni degrees :thebirds:

I am not bagging Uni or TAFE - they are great. But I hate people assuming that if you haven't done them, that you won't get a good or satisfying job (or that Uni is so superior to TAFE).

Originally Posted by Thunder

Believe me, spend some time in Sydney and you WILL see tradesmen who run their own business with salaries like lawyers.

Im sure other people on this forum will agree? Right?

Hell, only the average guys have salaries like lawyers. The really good ones make lawyer salaries look like a monthly bonus ;) There is a LOT of money in the Trade industry...

[parawolf]

Originally Posted by Dave_au

Not if your a chartered accountant, lawyer, engineer, merchant banker, doctor or actuary.

Missed my point. When I said money, I meant - a job with money - eg Merchant Banker, corporate finance, Accountant, Lawyer.

Yes Lawyer, Merchant Banker, Corp Finance - why? historical reasons.

Accountant, Are you sure you don't need a TAFE dip? Not sure.

Engineer, now that is debatable. There are two kinds of engineers. Common Engineers and PEs (Professional Engineers). PEs definately require a degree, or two, plus masses of experience and extra training. These are the kind of people that sign off on designs and construction (as examples on my part only) for things that affect public or could be open to public liability. A Engineering Graduate is not a PE. Any other engineer could be by name only. My job title has Engineer in it, however I did Applied Science at uni. I've got a friend that did Comp Sci and Mechanical engineering (double) but he is a product development engineer - not exactly what he did at uni.

There are people at my work, that have not completed a degree (been in IT/Computing since... well... been in the same job for 20 years). They were Mathematics whiz's at high school and became 'human computers' in finance companies 20 years ago. Now 38 years old, they admin computers and do new project development. They have Engineer in their title to.

Engineer is a devalued title these days unfortunately. University engineering degrees should develop people towards PE's, not title Engineers. Engineering degrees with ENTERs of 50 or 60 are useless. The degree should be re-classified.

[Thunder]

Originally Posted by parawolf

.............................Engineer is a devalued title these days unfortunately..............................

I call myself an Engineer of Beauty (im a jeweller) and on the weekends
an Engineer of Exotic Selections (im also a cook) :

[Deadman]

Originally Posted by Thunder

an Engineer of Exotic Selections (im also a cook) :

I'm glad you clarified that as being a cook :

[Thunder]

Other qualifications of mine

Engineer of Desert Flora (a bad gardener)

Engineer of Colossial Politics (a bad boyfriend)

Fire and Hazzard Controlling Engineer (great at the BBQ)

:

[JD86]

yeh im a tafe student, studying to be an architectural draftsman, after i finish i plan on going to uni to become an architect..

[SSBUB]

There is one thing i didnt like about TAFE though when i was going....the amount of ridiculous courses they had...now granted 90% of them are effective and good...but there are some weird a** certificates you can get at TAFE and you have to question there value....i have heard you need to do a 6month tafe course now to be a lollipop man (Stop/Go dude)...dont know how true that is, but there are some weird ones at tafe.....yet all the weird people go to uni

[mcflux]

I've found that workplaces have been more experienced in keen students, or students with a bit of experience already under their belt. And when you already have experience, and you are keen to get a job, it gets easier to score work!

I got work experience last summer through this approach. I stated that I'd like to start as early as possible, rather than on the actual start date. This got me in, ahead of 4th year students (I was in 2nd year).

I'm back there again this year to work on various projects

But I wouldn't have gotten in without being at uni.

Monash sucks though, and I can't wait to be gone from that hole. They screw all the students around, we're just walking HECS and amenities fees to them.

-Dave-

[cogdoc]

Like my old man said when I was tossing up options after highschool " you can always put your piece of paper away and act dumb..." meaning ANY qualification is only a bonus....

[Dave_au]

Originally Posted by Thunder

What......i know a lot of plumbers, mechanics and builders who earn more money than merchant bankers, accountants and lawyers.

Yep, and vise versa!

[Tornado]

You really don't have a choice as to where you go, UNI or TAFE.
It depends on what you want to do.

If I wanted to be a plumber I can't go to UNI to do that, or If I wanted to be a Doctor, then forget about TAFE. So what this thread is really about is carees not UNI or TAFE.

You choose your caree and then go to which ever one you need to go to for the training. Both institutions have there place and you can't realy say TAFE is beter then UNI or vice versa 'cause thay both offer different training courses, You can however compare one UNI with another or one TAFE with another. Back in my day for Electrical Engineering you would go to RMIT, Melbourne UNI for Law and Medicine, PIT for nursing or chiro studies.

Each UNI or TAFE has its strengths and both are good.

[HP Dude]

Originally Posted by parawolf

Crap crap and utter crap.

You do not require University or TAFE skills to excell in society or have a career with money. It is just harder without.

Personally if three people presented to me as an employer, one with a University Degree, one with a TAFE diploma and one without either but with 2 years experience they would all get equal consideration. In fact the person with experience (depends on the experience, why they are moving on, many many factors) would be the person i'd be hardest on in the interview stage - but for the right reasons that they should be better at the job.

Teritary qualifications are a foot in the door, nothing more.

Yes, in certain occupations, but in my case, I can't practice as a lawyer until I finish my law degree! You're referring to 'generalist' uni degrees. There are also vocational university degrees that provide the minimum qualification required to work or practice a particular profession.

It all depends what you want, IMO. I personally would not bother with university unless you're studying to be a lawyer, doctor, teacher, engineer pharmacist, scientist etc.

[HP Dude]

Originally Posted by Deadman

Um... Sure...

I've done 2 degrees at Uni:

Bachelor of Creative Industries / Bachelor of Education (Secondary)

Bachelor of Information Technology

I've got mates who have done Diplomas of IT - and believe me - it S**ts on the Uni degree. It looks SO MUCH harder than Uni. I finished those Uni degrees without even studying - I missed classes, didn't turn up to lectures and still passed ;)

I wouldn't pass the TAFE course - I'm certain. Hats off to those TAFE students because they work a lot harder than some people recognise.

If you ask me (and Teki this is not oreintated at you) there are to many prissy Uni students who don't know S**t all. The degree gets you the first job - from then on, it's how good you actually are and how dedicated you work, that gets you a career. You can't fall back on the piece of paper forever.

: Finished

Fair enough, there are a lot of ****y uni courses out there that you could get through with minimal effort, however, as someone who is studying law, and who has friends studying medicine, I can tell you there are very, very few courses (TAFE or uni) as academically rigourous as law and med (save for the traditional sciences such as Chem, physics, and 'proper' engineering: they're bloody tough also).

Also, there are unis, and then there are unis. The scores for prestigious degrees at sandstone universities are very high because they're in demand, and they are academically tough to complete, however, it's easier to get into a law degree at Melbourne Uni, than to stay (in my experience). The drop out/non-completion rate is pretty high.

At the end of the day, you have to compare apples with apples and not all uni degrees and institutions are operating at the same level.

[MrSparkle]

Originally Posted by Tornado

You really don't have a choice as to where you go, UNI or TAFE.
It depends on what you want to do.

If I wanted to be a plumber I can't go to UNI to do that, or If I wanted to be a Doctor, then forget about TAFE. So what this thread is really about is carees not UNI or TAFE.

You choose your caree and then go to which ever one you need to go to for the training. Both institutions have there place and you can't realy say TAFE is beter then UNI or vice versa 'cause thay both offer different training courses, You can however compare one UNI with another or one TAFE with another. Back in my day for Electrical Engineering you would go to RMIT, Melbourne UNI for Law and Medicine, PIT for nursing or chiro studies.

Each UNI or TAFE has its strengths and both are good.

Spot on. There is no magic one-size-fits-all solution.

For me, well I started with a Bachelor of Science with a Physics major, and moved on to a Masters in Software Engineering. Trust me when I say that BOTH those qualifications were VERY VERY F$*@ING hard and the dropout rate was high. There were two distinct groups - those who were very smart and didn't have to work so hard, and everyone else who had to absolutely flog themselves to death to pass.

Nonetheless, those qualifications have done me well and I have absolutely no regrets in doing them rather than going to TAFE to do IT. None whatsoever.

[MITCHAY]

I chose CIT (NSW equivalent of TAFE) because a)I didn't have a UAI, b)CIT is way cheaper and c)the workload is no where near as intensive. I'm doing a Diploma of Information Tech (Software Development).

3 guys at my work all have law degrees, 2 of which did it for the wrong reasons and now have no interest in practising law whatsoever. They only did it to make themselves look good. Sure they have qualifications but at the end of the day what job other than one in the field of law or having some relation to law is actually going to care too much about a law degree?

Its the same deal as private VS public schools. I had a debate with my mates which is better. Neither is better than the other except maybe one school does a subject another doesn't. How do they figure that one is better when you study for the same bloody Yr 12 test?

A lot of people say you will do better at uni than at TAFE but you take the training that is suited to your chosen career not for bragging rights.

At the end of the day you can only get what you put in be it uni or TAFE or other training.

[parawolf]

Originally Posted by HP Dude

Yes, in certain occupations, but in my case, I can't practice as a lawyer until I finish my law degree! You're referring to 'generalist' uni degrees. There are also vocational university degrees that provide the minimum qualification required to work or practice a particular profession.

It all depends what you want, IMO. I personally would not bother with university unless you're studying to be a lawyer, doctor, teacher, engineer pharmacist, scientist etc.

My degree was Electrical Engineering, but it was by the Faculty of Applied Science. Go figure. So because it isn't a B.Eng, does that mean i'm not allowed to call myself an engineer?

Should my employment title be "Senior Systems Scientist" instead?

Engineering qualifications in this country (and probably world wide) need to be far more formalised, qualified and substaintied for an engineering graduate to get a reasonable chance at life.

Those at high school that do "two maths, physics and chem" as year 12 subjects fall (most of the time) into engineering, only because it is what they understand, they don't pick science (applied or pure).

Personally the freedom to go to uni in the country has devalued the marketability of a university degree. I don't mean charge for a degree, but I mean raise the bar, I don't want someone that got into uni on an ENTER of 55 "engineering" (stress loading, wind sway, natural harmonics, etc) a public road bridge or a multi-story building in a hurry.

However universities are most to blame with all this. They started taking in bulk money and started to be run as a business rather than a public education facility. Personally I think the image of TAFE should be brushed up and made more appealing and university should scale up the level of requirements - but also the level of outputs.

Arts students should go to TAFE... :Up_to_som

[Thunder]

Originally Posted by parawolf

.....................................Arts students should go to TAFE... :Up_to_som

I can think of somewhere else arts students can go...........

[Dave_au]

Originally Posted by parawolf

My degree was Electrical Engineering, but it was by the Faculty of Applied Science. Go figure. So because it isn't a B.Eng, does that mean i'm not allowed to call myself an engineer?

Should my employment title be "Senior Systems Scientist" instead?

Thats not the point at all - you can finish uni with a degree in accounting, you still can't go around calling yourself an accountant however - likewise with law.

It all depends about what you do with that degree in business, and how you apply your degree to your job.

[parawolf]

true true... but if someone without a degree of any technical nature can call themselves an engineer (or get called that by the business) why couldn't I with a technical nature background get called a lawyer or accountant with after relevant experience?

These qualification names are thrown around far too much.