Be prosecuted for illegal gas connection. Urgent help

[Peuty]

Originally Posted by G6E-T

also how did yhe landlord get a photo? they arent meant to just randomly turn up, particularly when your not home...is it leased through a agency?

the speculation that he was swapping bottles on you sounds good but the meter reads what is used....id be more worried about a leak or maybe just estimated readings.

Originally Posted by BENT_8

How did the landlord see the alterations done, where is the 9kg bottle situated, did the landlord break the terms of your rental agreement by turning up un announced.

That's what I was thinking as well. I'd at least be notifying the RTA of this fact.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Say nothing more and seek legal advice. If they call you for any reason politely tell them that all correspondence is to be via snail mail from this point fwd.

If you can't afford it can you still make bookings to see the Chamber Magistrate?? Legal aid??

Write down what exactly happened, every detail and read over it several times till it's spot on. This could take a few days.

Good luck.

[TheSneakiness]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

How did the landlord see the alterations done, where is the 9kg bottle situated, did the landlord break the terms of your rental agreement by turning up un announced.

This. Get onto to the RTA about this.

The owner of the property is not allowed access to the premises whilst the property is being tenanted without appropriate prior notice being given to the tenant.

For an inspection its 7 days.
For a inspection to clear a significant breach its 24 hours.

If they have just rocked up about it then the lease has been broken and you can serve the real estate and the owner a remedy breach.

[mechanic]

Originally Posted by FPV GTHO

Can't do anything really without licencing. I was told many years ago you needed to be a plumber to even change the valves in your taps. I dare say you can't change a switch without being an electrician either.

But you can overhaul the brakes and steering on your car and drive it at 100kph in oncoming traffic at closing speeds of 200 kph or 60 kph amongst crowds of people.

[mr smith]

Do a runner...

[MercurySilver]

How on earth is that much gas getting used??
Two of us in our house and a 45kg bottle does our stove top and all hot water for three months.
And yes ive hooked up the small bbq bottle for a day when i couldnt get a bottle and had run out because i didnt check how much gas i had left.
Also the landlord cant just rock up un announced and start taking photos

[Eaturbo]

Yeah i think he might have stood on the road and took the photos. The old saying two wrongs don't make a right would be mentioned. Plus my action are probably more dangerous and risky in the courts eye's. Can't really afford a solicitor and legal aid laughed when i asked for help. Pretty much on my own unless i can afford a solicitor.

[Iggle Piggle]

Obviously obvious, but have you checked the meter reading against the reading on your bill, and is it an estimated reading?

Is the bill charging you per MJ or per KG - and what rate per whichever it is? And how much is the supply charge or service fee or whatever they are calling the daily service rate?

[snowcone]

Say you were down at the pub and talking to a bloke at the bar and telling him your story about the high gas useage and you didn't know what to do. He said he had a plumber mate with gas ticket and he could arrange to have the bottle hooked up for a $50 cashie if you supplied your own 9kg bottle. You thought that sounded like a good idea because the gas bill was bleeding you dry so you told him to set it up and paid him the $50 right then and there.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by Makovic

Yes Russell, get that legal advice which will often be a cure that is far worse than the cause.

Once the lawyers get their teeth into you, there is no turning back - you will pay until it hurts: in many cases, lawyers end up suing their own clients.

Those bloodsucker LLBs will say anything to entice another naïve client into the web of the criminal justice system.

Legal advise does not have to be through a solicitor, you can go to Ombudsman, or your local State consumer affairs which would be free, oh you can use legal aid if approved.

[GS608]

Plenty of tradesmen do cashies, some bloke you met at the pub and he followed you home, never got his number..never admit anything

[Phildo]

Start by reading the actual legislation. It will be on a government web site somewhere.

[aussiblue]

Legal advise does not have to be through a solicitor, you can go to Ombudsman, or your local State consumer affairs which would be free, oh you can use legal aid if approved.

The Ombudsman office does not provide legal advice; it investigates complaints against Government Departments (see http://www.ombudsman.qld.gov.au/ etc.)
.
Similarly Consumer Affairs won't provide legal advice in defending a fine. It might investigate a complaint re why the agents, landlord and GAS supplier did not investigate your complaints re the abnormal recorded GAS usage and meter (see https://www.qld.gov.au/law/your-righ...nts-and-scams/ etc) .


Yes; these offices can help with complaints regarding why your GAS bill was so high but they won't want to be involved in any prosecution that may be launched against you in respect to illegal alterations to your landlords reticulated domestic LPG supply.

[Eaturbo]

Originally Posted by Iggle Piggle

Obviously obvious, but have you checked the meter reading against the reading on your bill, and is it an estimated reading?

Is the bill charging you per MJ or per KG - and what rate per whichever it is? And how much is the supply charge or service fee or whatever they are calling the daily service rate?

Thanks mate, yeah I've checked the meter and everything associated. The bill says I've used 7500mjs. There is 2200mj in a 45kg bottle so 6600mj is 3 big 45kg bottles plus another 900mj so nearly another half a bottle. The rate for the gas is right, it's just 3 times what I used in my last house and 3 times what everyone else I know is using.

In saying that, others in the estate are getting $600 bills and thought it was high but normal cause they'd never had gas before. The others who know better had the argument with origin and simply converted to bottles. Problem is they were owners not tenants so could do so albeit using licensed gas fitters. It's the meter problem of not knowing exactly how much gas is going thru the meter. If you run out of a 45kg bottle in 3 weeks you would know than and there something was wrong. With a meter you are just taking there word for it that the meter is right. Guess who would test the meter, Origin and like there going to admit fault. It would leave them open to everybody in the estate taking action, not to mention previous tenants. Apparently there's no independent gas meter testers which works well if your knowingly ripping people off.

[Beastie]

You are not alone. I just found this forum link - it may or may not help you, but others are talking about high usage (a couple of years old, but still relevant)

http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/1553829

[Mowdit]

Interesting thread.

Sorry to hear of your woe's Eaturbo

There has been several good response's, the landlord showing up unannounced, also the fact you can change your own brakes without a ticket....

I can legally buy a light switch for $8 at Bunnings, and I am sure lots of people have changed them DIY, as with LPG........ (doesn't make it right, I know)

Now I am wondering "how" I would go changing out my existing outdoor BBQ, that is plumbed into the house gas ?????........

Life is a learning curve hey

Hope it all works out OK

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by aussiblue

The Ombudsman office does not provide legal advice; it investigates complaints against Government Departments (see http://www.ombudsman.qld.gov.au/ etc.)
.
Similarly Consumer Affairs won't provide legal advice in defending a fine. It might investigate a complaint re why the agents, landlord and GAS supplier did not investigate your complaints re the abnormal recorded GAS usage and meter (see https://www.qld.gov.au/law/your-righ...nts-and-scams/ etc) .


Yes; these offices can help with complaints regarding why your GAS bill was so high but they won't want to be involved in any prosecution that may be launched against you in respect to illegal alterations to your landlords reticulated domestic LPG supply.

My post was not about advise for a fine, it was about the OP post regarding his problem with the landlord & utility company response to his requests in which the Ombudsman or consumer affairs would act accordingly to complaints & yes they do offer advise as I have been through this myself.
In his case the Ombudsman would have been sufficient or another one I forgot about would be the tenants union or equivalent.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by Mowdit

Now I am wondering "how" I would go changing out my existing outdoor BBQ, that is plumbed into the house gas ?????........

You'd be surprised to learn that even the bbq plumbed to your house needs a licensed tradie to certify it, atleast thats what we were told by BBQ's galore when we went looking for a natural gas Weber to connect to our house fitting.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by Eaturbo

Yeah i think he might have stood on the road and took the photos. The old saying two wrongs don't make a right would be mentioned. Plus my action are probably more dangerous and risky in the courts eye's. Can't really afford a solicitor and legal aid laughed when i asked for help. Pretty much on my own unless i can afford a solicitor.

I'd be looking at this closer, im not sure they are allowed to do that either.
Not with regards to your problem with the gas, but to stick it up the ***** for dobbing you in.

[buggerlugs]

Originally Posted by Mowdit

Interesting thread.

Sorry to hear of your woe's Eaturbo

There has been several good response's, the landlord showing up unannounced, also the fact you can change your own brakes without a ticket....

I can legally buy a light switch for $8 at Bunnings, and I am sure lots of people have changed them DIY, as with LPG........ (doesn't make it right, I know)

Now I am wondering "how" I would go changing out my existing outdoor BBQ, that is plumbed into the house gas ?????........

Life is a learning curve hey

Hope it all works out OK

Spot on, I'm sure most of us on here have done things "not by the books" one time or another in their lives. I know I have............

[olfella]

Originally Posted by Mowdit

Now I am wondering "how" I would go changing out my existing outdoor BBQ, that is plumbed into the house gas ?????........

It should have been installed with a bayonet connection as it would be classified as an appliance. Same as a power point and an electric BBQ.

[Eaturbo]

Originally Posted by Mowdit

Interesting thread.

Sorry to hear of your woe's Eaturbo

There has been several good response's, the landlord showing up unannounced, also the fact you can change your own brakes without a ticket....

I can legally buy a light switch for $8 at Bunnings, and I am sure lots of people have changed them DIY, as with LPG........ (doesn't make it right, I know)

Now I am wondering "how" I would go changing out my existing outdoor BBQ, that is plumbed into the house gas ?????........

Life is a learning curve hey

Hope it all works out OK

Yeah thanks for your positive reply. You would think that if there that worried about the dangers of electricity and gas that they would regulate the sales of the stuff so only licensed people can buy the stuff. I mean you can't buy prescription drugs and guns plus lots of other stuff without a license because there dangerous. I know heaps of people that do there own wiring for minor things. Highly illegal but there's no certificate or compliance plate put on a house to prove compliance. How would anyone ever prove that electrical work was done by a licensed electrician and what date it was done.

[Boosted8]

Originally Posted by Eaturbo

How would anyone ever prove that electrical work was done by a licensed electrician and what date it was done.

An invoice or receipt for work done is good proof. In this day and age, there will be a record because most reputable tradespeople utilise email (for example).

A mate of mine is an electrician and he has showed me some really dodgy installations done by backyarders that were downright freaky. Last year he showed me a commercial property where the previous owners had bypassed the meter with bars of copper inside the fusebox. Another example was a residential unit where the owner had been powering a 15A AC unit with thin-gauge cable (2.5mm IIRC) that was intended to be used for lamps, etc.

Many things are best left to the pros because the results of bad installs can be fatal. Not only to the occupants of the building but also to any tradesperson that unwittingly stumbles across the dodginess.

[03 GHIA]

Originally Posted by Mowdit

I can legally buy a light switch for $8 at Bunnings, and I am sure lots of people have changed them DIY, as with LPG........ (doesn't make it right, I know)

I honestly don't think there is a light fitting, switch or power point in the house that I either haven't changed or installed myself...

It's just common sense, much the same with gas. I'd likely have done the same in the OP's situation. Pretty massive savings if there weren't a fine.
Problem is common sense and basic know-how is becoming far less common. And laws have to be put in place to save some people from themselves.

Best of luck for a favourable outcome.

[Eaturbo]

Originally Posted by Boosted8

An invoice or receipt for work done is good proof. In this day and age, there will be a record because most reputable tradespeople utilise email (for example).

A mate of mine is an electrician and he has showed me some really dodgy installations done by backyarders that were downright freaky. Last year he showed me a commercial property where the previous owners had bypassed the meter with bars of copper inside the fusebox. Another example was a residential unit where the owner had been powering a 15A AC unit with thin-gauge cable (2.5mm IIRC) that was intended to be used for lamps, etc.

Many things are best left to the pros because the results of bad installs can be fatal. Not only to the occupants of the building but also to any tradesperson that unwittingly stumbles across the dodginess.

Yeah I agree with you, but if you buy a used house how would one know what has been done legally and what was done by a dodgy owner. Some houses are 50 to 100 years old but even say a 10 year old house that's on its 3 rd owner. There would be absolutely no record of what work was done and when and by whom. Seams like its a receipe for disaster in the electrical field. Gas on the other hand is more regulated than electricity even if every house has power but a lot of houses don't have gas. Maybe they rely on the circuit breakers on houses to protect people where gas systems don't have circuit breakers. Seen plenty of leaking BBQ's even one with a small flame coming from a join. Nothing like the old turn the gas on but bbq won't start straight away than WOOP up she goes. On the other hand 1000's of people have been killed over the years from electricity.

[Boosted8]

Originally Posted by Eaturbo

Yeah I agree with you, but if you buy a used house how would one know what has been done legally and what was done by a dodgy owner. Some houses are 50 to 100 years old but even say a 10 year old house that's on its 3 rd owner. There would be absolutely no record of what work was done and when and by whom. Seams like its a receipe for disaster in the electrical field. Gas on the other hand is more regulated than electricity even if every house has power but a lot of houses don't have gas. Maybe they rely on the circuit breakers on houses to protect people where gas systems don't have circuit breakers. Seen plenty of leaking BBQ's even one with a small flame coming from a join. Nothing like the old turn the gas on but bbq won't start straight away than WOOP up she goes. On the other hand 1000's of people have been killed over the years from electricity.

Yeah I understand the point you're making and agree with you. I realise I also went a bit off track with my post but I think the thing to consider with these regulations is that they usually only come into play from the date that they are introduced (i.e. if you built a house before the regulations existed and wired it yourself, you don't have to completely re-wire it when they start introducing regulations).

I didn't mean to seem like I was sinking the boot in with that post, I was just musing. You obviously know you've done wrong and I'm sure you're going through a lot of stress right now.

[Eaturbo]

Originally Posted by Boosted8

Yeah I understand the point you're making and agree with you. I realise I also went a bit off track with my post but I think the thing to consider with these regulations is that they usually only come into play from the date that they are introduced (i.e. if you built a house before the regulations existed and wired it yourself, you don't have to completely re-wire it when they start introducing regulations).

I didn't mean to seem like I was sinking the boot in with that post, I was just musing. You obviously know you've done wrong and I'm sure you're going through a lot of stress right now.

All good mate, your constructive points are welcome. Funny how a house has a gas compliance plate which is an alloy plate with printing on it which is engraved by the plumber doing the work, than a gas compliance certificate which has 3 copies. One for the property owner, one for the plumbers records and one that gets sent to the State Government office. Yet the electricity which is more dangerous has nothing at all, not one single piece of paperwork to track who did the work.

[MDS69]

Originally Posted by Boosted8

. Another example was a residential unit where the owner had been powering a 15A AC unit with thin-gauge cable (2.5mm IIRC) that was intended to be used for lamps, etc.

.

2.5mm2 is rated to 20A.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by MDS69

2.5mm2 is rated to 20A.

I think he got bit confused in his post but we all know what he meant to say.
Undersized current rating cable was used.

[aussiblue]

Yet the electricity which is more dangerous has nothing at all, not one single piece of paperwork to track who did the work.

It's a subjective call if the mains is more dangerous than the GAS. Silicon Chip Magazine has run articles in the past promoting deregulation of the controls on working on mains power on the basis that:

a) Many countries including the UK and many states in the US allow home owners to work on the mains after the meter box. Some require a short night school certificate course
b) Most mains power related deaths are professional electricians and their apprentices and relate to repetitive work, overfamiliarity and the contempt and complacency that may comes with this; i.e. things like forgetting to turn of the mains or pulling the fuse before sending the apprentice in to pull up live wires.
c) Amateurs are actually more fearful of being electrocuted and generally therefore try and take more care; albeit they may not know what risks they are exposing themselves too.
d) There is an abundance of written material available that the amateur electrician can use as guidance.
e) Many skilled and experienced home enthusiasts probably know more about their specific area of interest than electricians.

Regardless of your views on the above; it is a bit hard to draw a complete parallel when it comes to GAS regulations. I suspect the number of deaths due to amateur mains power and GAS plumbing each year is small and similar in number but I don't know that it can be demonstrated that one is more dangerous than the other. The ABS Stats on causes of death in this area leaves too much unsaid. But I think it the average citizen perceives mains power as more dangerous than gas and this may simply mean they will be much more careful and cautious with mains power and more complacent about GAS. Many also think they understand how gas works but can't get their head around how home AC works.