Cleveland Into EA

[eav8]

* Rocker covers to shock towers...................................100mm
* Exhaust ports to shock towers....................................90mm
* Front of pulley to bottom radiator support.....................100mm

side figures are approximate as I need a new tape measure and my steel rule was a bit long to fit...They would be fairly close though I reckon allow 5-10mm on top and should be within range.

I was quite surprised how everything lined up (except for engine mount bolt holes). I currently have stock exhaust manifiolds fitted so they do not clear the steering shaft so I will be chasing up headers to suit.
I am thinking of either modifying mounts or K frame (drill and fit anti crush tube) to suit. I would like to stay with X-series mounts as they are nice and cheap and do the job well enough.
I am also going to stitch weld the K frame seams to strengthen it up a bit.
It's raining up here (about bloody time) so I have to wait for it to clear up to proceed.

One thing I have noticed is starter motor space is at a premium...I'm concerned that it mat not fit very easily but I'll suss it out.

I also have to remove firewall padding to do my hydraulic clutch conversion...All in all I think this will be a nice toy

[LUXO_8]

Originally Posted by eav8

One thing I have noticed is starter motor space is at a premium...I'm concerned that it mat not fit very easily but I'll suss it out.

i have heard but im not quite sure, but with some VERY slight mods an EA - ED 6 cyl starter will fit on a clevo.....

it'd be worth chasing up to find out.....

[eav8]

^^^^^^thanks will look into it^^^

[eav8]

Good news from jeff dellow today. They make a maual bellhousing for T5 to cleveland that swaps starter to passenger side and hydraulic clutch fitting to driver side. I have done my measurements and this will allow my standard starter motor to fit nice and snugly . It is the bellhousing they make for hotrods.

[eav8]

Just an update.
I have now installed the clutch master cylinder. The ea has the position stamped into the inner firewall...I thought that was curious as they didn't offer a hydraulic version.
I have also installed the clutch pedal box. As big_waity didn't have a clutch pedal available I utilised the one from my XB.
I modified the auto pedal box to take a X series manual pedal shaft. This lifted the clutch pedal up a bit and allowed the clutch pivot to line up correctly. I also lengthened the master cylinder push rod a little to make it reach.
There was some shimming that had to be fitted and some pipe welded to support the shaft but it looks pretty good and everything works perfectly.
The clutch master cylinder sits snugly against the brake booster but looks like it should be there.

I have also rebuilt the engine and it is now a true 351c not a 302c.
Engine bolt points were moved and standard x series engine mounts now fit..Some shimming was also required here.

Also fabricated a driver side exhaust manifold to allow clearance where required. Extractors will be looked at once (hopefully) vehicle passes emissions and roadworthy tests (a while away yet)....Passenger side will be done once I have new bellhousing and can measure things up a bit better. I have been quoted a full dual 2-1/2 inch system with extractors between $1500 and $2000. Max price is if they need to fabricate custom extractors.
Next on list is to remove spare tyre well so that I can modify my coupe's 2-1/2 inch redback tail pipes to fit....Can't do anymore to engine and driveline until I get new bellhousing. Once I get that it'll only be a matter of time before I'm driving around my back yard. lol
Will add some pics when I get around to taking them.

Also a question..How do the v8's utilise the two o2 sensors. Do they couple together or do they feed seperate inputs..I ask this as I am fitting a semiclosed loop LPG system and need to know if I should run a sensor in each exhaust bank or if just one will do.
That's it for now but I have recentlysold my old bellhousing so I can fund my new one.

[eav8]

some pics with clutch master cylinder and modified pedal box installed. :

[eav8]

Got my bellhousing today. A beautiful piece of kit. Have got to modify my sandwich plate to fit now. Should hopefully have g/box mounted (with 11inch clutch and hydraulics fully fitted by tomorrow or Saturday hopefully.

Then I just got to find a 4.0 litre starter motor as standard clevo one will not fit due to solenoid being on the wrong side.

Slowly does it but it's progressing.
I found out that I do not need a EPA test just a proper tune. This is because I am running a closed loop straight LPG setup.
Gympie 4x4 have been chosen for the job as they have a dyno so we can tune it up properly...I'm not expecting big numbers as I'm doing this as cheap as possible but once it's legal then I'll upgrade bits and pieces to match the engine potential.

MERRY CHRISTMAS to all e-series members and hopefully I may one day manage to meet some of you up my way.

[TuMor]

Lookin sweeet, can we get some high quality pics when its done? Ive got a mate whom is thinking of doing the same mod.

[eav8]

^^^will have to wait until I buy a camera. Will take a lot more photos then^^^

[TuMor]

Originally Posted by eav8

^^^will have to wait until I buy a camera. Will take a lot more photos then^^^

Yippie!!!

[eav8]

As of today the gearbox is mounted in and bolted up. Had to lengthen the hole in the floor a little as shifter is further forward..This vehicle was originally auto so I assume that's part of it. Gearbox cross member is also sitting as far forward on the chassis mounts as it can go.
I sourced a loan of a 4 litre starter motor for measurements and trial fitting (geexz they're small...I hope the one I'm getting to actually use is going to be strong enough to kick the beaqst into life.)

I found that I had to grind a little cast-on bump from the steering rack to clear the starter body. I guess my original figuring on that was incorrect oh well....
I feel that the engine could probably do with about a 10mm lift to absolutely clear things...Not too difficult just annoying.

There is a HUGE amount of room between the firewall and the rear of the engine..Plenty of room to get at bolts ;)

Hydraulics have been hooked up and it seems to function properly...I did notice that the pushrod on the slave cylinder comes out at a angle...I'l fix that by installing a wedge type spacer between the slave cylinder and bellhousing to angle the body out a little. That should reduce the angle and unneccessary pressure .
I get tempted to bolt the starter motor on and crank her over with a bit of fuel but then I remember THERE'S NO OIL IN IT STUPID!!!! (engine or gearbox)

QUESTION: Does anybody know if there is a legitimate reason why I cannot substitute auto fluid for the normal brake fluid used in the clutch master cylinder...Afterall it is all hyraulic fluid isn't it? (Obviously I wouldn't try this in the brakes )

[banarcus]

It would depend whether your seals would tolerate it and if the auto fluid is compressible. Keep us updated.

[eav8]

hey happy new year all. I have taken a rest from the car over christmas but will be back into it in the new year.
Clutch pedal feels a bit heavy with auto fluid so I will change bck to breal fluid and see how that goes.
Will keep updating as I go and when Whole project is finished and on the road I may then repost all the relevant details to the project area. In the meeantime I feel that my efforts would be better off here.


If anyone wants nformation on what I did to convert to hydraulic clutch or anything else I have done so far thewn let me know and I will provide what information I can.
All modifications will be detailed in full at a later date for reference.

[ScoopED]

Originally Posted by eav8

* Rocker covers to shock towers...................................100mm
* Exhaust ports to shock towers....................................90mm
* Front of pulley to bottom radiator support.....................100mm

I Finally got those measurements to compare with yours...

Rocker covers to shock towers:
EA 351 Cleveland 100mm
EB 351 Windsor 140mm

Exhaust ports to shock towers:
EA 351 Cleveland 90mm
EB 351 Windsor 150mm

Front of pully to bottom radiator support:
EA 351 Cleveland 100mm
EB 351 Windsor 180mm

Its quite interesting to see how much bigger the Cleveland appears to be, even when compared with the decent sized 351 Windsor block.

Any more pics?

Mike

[Gammaboy]

Originally Posted by ScoopED

I Finally got those measurements to compare with yours...

Rocker covers to shock towers:
EA 351 Cleveland 100mm
EB 351 Windsor 140mm

Exhaust ports to shock towers:
EA 351 Cleveland 90mm
EB 351 Windsor 150mm

You'll find thats all in the heads..... the deck height is 9.2" versus 9.5" remember....

Originally Posted by ScoopED

Front of pully to bottom radiator support:
EA 351 Cleveland 100mm
EB 351 Windsor 180mm

Serpentine setups are much shorter in terms of pullies... the serp water pump is "approx. 1.75" shorter than old-style pumps" (from the Ford Racing parts website) and then theres the extra groves infront of the water pump groove on a v bet setup... the Clevo and Windsor cranks are the same length, so its all in the front dress....

Originally Posted by ScoopED

Its quite interesting to see how much bigger the Cleveland appears to be, even when compared with the decent sized 351 Windsor block.

Any more pics?

Mike

Either way, you guys have more room to play with than i do in my XY.... pr!cks!

[eav8]

No more photo's at this time. I really want to wait until I get a decent camera to do it some justice as my little RITMO just aint hacking it.

Popped the bonnet and began playing wit it again today.
Setting myself a goal of 1 month to have it firing up on LPG (home connected) and driving around the back yard....
Have noticed that the whole arrangement sits forward a LOT thus the huge firewall clearance. I have no problem with this but might be an interesting job to fit the thermo's when I get to that point
My measurements were only approximate but I think fairly close so it is interesting the amount of difference in room. Will be a tight fit for the extractors when I get to having thm done......but that will be way down the track after the car is on the road.

[eav8]

Ok did a little bit more today...Lifted the engine by 10mm...everything has clearance now . I can even fit standard clevo exhaust manifold on driver's side without fouling steering gear. Has more than enough clearance for starter to steering rack on passenger side.
Starter motor modified and fitted.(I6 4litre reduction type)..Good call on that one guys.
Drivers seat mounts built and fitted (for saas reclinable) and seat installed.
Driving position is sweet (i,m 6ft) sits a tad lower than standard. Clutch pressure is good...not too hard not too soft. Had to rebuild master and slave cylinders as auto fluid was too thick. replaced with brake fluid and perfect. Front brakes need an overhaul but are functioning.(I have a spare set of calipers might just use them)
Engine has oil in....g/box has fluid waiting to go in.(Remember T5 uses Auto fluid)
....Getting EXTREMELY tempted to fire it up. Can't decide to start on petrol or LPG....Have removed fuel pump and manufactured / installed blockoff plate.
Still have to get tailshaft modified...bit slow as lack of funds....

I am thinking of installing a anti-torsion bar from front of engine to chassis. This would prevent engine from moving on mounts and possibly causing things to hit.

Still working on custom intake plenum idea for LPG..To get rid of carburettor all together. I am experimenting with throttle body idea...This will maybe allow for easier conversion to EFI at a much later date.
That's it for now...Any questions or suggestions on any aspect of this conversion so far undertaken just post or PM me... I will help where I can.

[eaona]

well I have got an ea in which I have installed a clevo and it is all but finnished but I have not got it to run cool the hosees are on the opperset side to the clevo in the ea and the radiator out of older falcon is to tall to fit in so I cut about an inch from the bottom of each tank and three cores and tryed that but it gets too hot still
so how do you cool them is the hoses different on an eb v8 radiator?

[eav8]

I haven't got to the cooling problems yet....I did fire up the beast today however and after re-ordering my leads (180deg out) She fired up and ran on fuel no problems...After a short time however I got a smacking noise on the drivers side bank...Thought it may have been loose ex manifold so put in the rest of the bolts and tightened them up. Re-started..no worries fired first pop but smacking noise still there. I am a little concerned over this.
I removed the rocker cover for a look nothing appears wrong. fired it up with cover removed..Noise still apparent but nothing immediately visible......Any ideas please.
I would hate to finish this then find that I have to pull engine for repairs.

[AshMan]

It's not a seized piston is it?

They make a loud smacking noise kinda thing when they aren't getting oil.

Make sure the oil is flowing and stuff.

I'm guessing you're keeping an eye on the fuel pressure?

[mcflux]

Originally Posted by AshMan

It's not a seized piston is it?

They make a loud smacking noise kinda thing when they aren't getting oil.

Make sure the oil is flowing and stuff.

I'm guessing you're keeping an eye on the fuel pressure?

seized piston? wouldn't this munt the rotating assembly? OR.. wouldn't this stop the engine from turning over in the first place?

[AshMan]

Originally Posted by Ghia5L

seized piston? wouldn't this munt the rotating assembly? OR.. wouldn't this stop the engine from turning over in the first place?

Before the piston actually seizes, it makes a loud slapping noise, the the piston getting stuck in the bore midway through the stroke.

Correct me if I'm wrong

[eav8]

Engine still happily runs and seems to be firing on all cylinders even with this noise. It does seem to catch a little and rock the engine whn this noise occurs though...I was wondering if possibly a broken ring or just a catching ring although engine only started making noise after it had been runnin for about a minute

[AshMan]

Dude seriously, do not run the engine again until you find the problem.

It sounds like one of the pistons is seizing or something similar, and the last thing you wanna do is ИИИИ your bottom end.

Pull it down and check everything is okay.

[eav8]

I think I've stuffed my engine...I have to pull the engine back out and inspect but I think I may have done some damage to my crank among other things....Noise when running is woeful. Every rotation there is a loud smack from inside the engine. I think only 1 cylinder has stuffed up but it almost sounds like a rod cap or something has come off and is cracking the crank every time it comes around......Bugger!!!!

I'm going to chase another block...have it fully prepped and o/sized to 30thou.
I think I'm going to need a new crank.
I have a set of 302c rods so they can be prepped and fitted with new ACL pistons...
I feel the heads and everything else will be fine so I'll just swap them over....
I'm ИИИИed off that this has happened as I just needed a tailshaft to be mobile (in the yard)..
Ohh well ИИИИИ happens it's only time and money
Guess I'd better try a bit harder to get a job now then. No more staying home fulltime lookin after the kid......then I gotta pay babysitting fees......oh bugger.
@!!#%$!@^@#$!^$#!

[eaona]

check the compresion if it is to do with pistons or rings it will be low on that cylinder or pull the head off. is it posible you have droped a bolt or some thing in the intake???? I block it up with tape and rags when a donk is out of the car especialy if you have kids around.
what sort of radiator you running in that I think my cooling probs are because the clevo water pump sits high compared to the radiator and the top hose runs down to it from the thermostat housing.
any one know where to get an electric water pump???

[eav8]

this is where I am at with the engine so far.
1. removed d/side head and inlet manifold
2. inspected each lifter ....OK
3. Visual inspection valves....OK no signs of impact
4. rotated engine by hand....NO CATCHING
5. Inspected cylinder bores...No scoring (I thought there would be if broken ring)
6. Removed gearbox and starter motor....No obvious signs of incorrect behaviour.Did trim starter snout a little more though to be safe.
7. As no obvious problems in top end will now have to raise engine, drain all my nice new oil and remove pan and check bottom end.

I even tried turning the engine backwqards a little to see if any play in the piston travel to signify a crook b/end bearing but all was fine....
Oh well if weather clears I will try taking off sump tomorrow.... :( not happy

Engine comes to pieces faster than it went together....At least I don,t have to remake any of the hoses etc.

I am currently running an EA auto radiator..I have had no issue as engine has barely run long enough to warm up....I have extended pipes long enough to reach radiator inlet and outlets....I cut hoses and used a length of stainless steel pipe in the top one and cut and welded a rather large galvanised pipe for the bottom hose and utilised the rubber hose to connect it to the radiator and water pump.
Obviously these were just quick fixes whilst testing and will be made neater for the final job....I am not running a fan at the moment (again has not been run long enough to need) but will be utilising ef/l thermo setup at a later date.....
I feel this radiator MAY meet requirements as it has a larger surface area than the old x series style....Also I am NOT running any aircon or auto gear.

[apolloxbgt]

Nothing worse than getting everything in the hole,firing it up and having problems straight up.

[THORNSPAWN]

Have you checked the water pump, they make all manner
of scary noises when the bearing goes.

[AshMan]

Originally Posted by THORNSPAWN

Have you checked the water pump, they make all manner
of scary noises when the bearing goes.

this is true,

originally thought it was my alternator but it was the pump.

Makes very loud scary noises.