The Falcon must change! - Page 3

iliov · 07-03-2010, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silver Ghia

I've said it before in this forum that the FG should have been a hatch. The boot lid is short enough not to have affected the styling much at all. It would have covered both previous sedan and wagon versions to a large extent. Ford is not higher than Commodore in the sales at present, only because there is only a sedan available (apart from the old model BF wagon XT).

I'm in the market for a new wagon or hatch later this year, an FG hatch would've been ideal. The Terry is too short at the back and too high, the Mondeo appears dull with an a/c not as good as what I'm used to, and there's no FG wagon through the range like Commodore has.

I'm afraid Ford is likely to miss out this time.

Yer sure mate.....

jpd80 · 07-03-2010, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt P

Don't know where you got your info mate but the new Fiesta is killing it in the small car market the sales dept are having trouble getting supply to sell them.

I get my info from Russell's Technical resources mate.
You don't know how much I wish that Fiesta were were killing it......

Year to date (Jan + Feb)
Light cars:
Yaris 3,645
Getz 3,644
Barina 2,671
Mazda 2 2,263
Fiesta 2,033 (+675)

Year to date (Jan + Feb)
Small cars:
Mazda 3 6,613
Corolla 5,753
i30 5,042
Cruze 4,293
Lancer 2,263
Focus 1,317 (-912)<- I suspect that Fiesta is robbing sales from here.

Arkturus · 07-03-2010, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iliov

Yer sure mate.....

lol you have to admit that is kinda cute!
looks like a rhino bettle

**DJM83** · 07-03-2010, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bucknaked

Oh goody. Thread 57,696 on the future of the falcon. So much information, so little time to take it all in.

Agreed.

So where do i place my order for the falcon hatch? :togo:

Mr Hardware · 07-03-2010, 06:01 PM

nice shop iliov.

just goes to show how a falcon hatch would never work.
coupe? yes. hatch? no.

eb2fairmont · 07-03-2010, 06:47 PM

Just wait until coyote and the ecoboost are released. Falcon doesn't cover the performance market well (being seen as inferior to holden and HSV). Coyote and supercharged coyote will solve this (as did the XR6T). It will get a lot more of the younger generation interested.

Ecoboost will appeal to families who want size but medium car running costs. That's the angle Ford needs to play.

Diesel territory and a makeover there will cover the suv aspect as well.

Road_Warrior · 07-03-2010, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

This is very true, but apart from sheet metal change it is the single most expensive thing they can do.

They will never be able to afford fancy materials unless they get production numbers up, which means exports, which will also be difficult as the factory cant handle large numbers anyway. Buggered all round.

Well, the EBI4T will bring about an instant weight saving because of its smaller stature and alloy block, ditto for Coyote.

They could use alloy control arms for the IRS, like they have done with the front suspension wishbones. Also, MY10 Falcon will more than likely have things like EPAS which will remove the need for a heavy belt driven power steering pump, and a plastic moulded boot floor, saving a kilo or two. It all adds up.

vztrt · 07-03-2010, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

FG Series II and new Territory will sell well enough in their respective sectors but
what about the terrible sales in every other sector, what about those vehicles?

Fiesta 1071
Mondeo 465
Escape 234
Ranger 4x2 269
Ranger 4x4 403

We keep hearing improvement compared to last year
but none of those cars are attracting substantial buyers,
they are being pummeled in their respective sectors.

The key to fixing that problem doesn't lie with changing the Falcon........:rolleyes:

lol, yeah funny how the eye is on the model that sells for ford (and at a much better profit).

Quote:

Originally Posted by BOSHOG

the best thing the falcon can do to stay in the market is to lose some weight

Yeah should replace it with the Taurus...its FWD so its much lighter

LeadFoot81 · 07-03-2010, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iliov

Yer sure mate.....

Youre way off buddy, I agree with SilverGhia that the FGs bootlid is short enough that a Mondeo style 3 box hatch would work really well.

The loaded Mazda 121 FG monstrosity photoshop youve created to prove a point would in reality be a waste of time as youve lopped off the original overhang and lost a heap of boot space.

GK · 07-03-2010, 09:04 PM

Double Post! Pardon! LOL!

GK

GK · 07-03-2010, 09:06 PM

Photoshop Champion! LOL!

Case closed!

:

GK

Riksta · 07-03-2010, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazen

People loved the Fairlane (I still miss it) but the market had moved on from that kind of vehicle.

I don't think the market moved away from that kind of vehicle. They should have kept the long wheelbase, the amount of LWB VE's (Stato/Caprice) I see is astounding! If Holden can keep making their rubbish surely Ford could have kept the LWB models too.

cosmo20btt · 07-03-2010, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riksta

I don't think the market moved away from that kind of vehicle. They should have kept the long wheelbase, the amount of LWB VE's (Stato/Caprice) I see is astounding! If Holden can keep making their rubbish surely Ford could have kept the LWB models too.

Yet again it would have boiled down to price, why buy a Australian LWB luxo taxi when for the same amount you can have a Bimmer, Merc, or Audi. We need to make cheaper here if we want to continue to produce - sell cars here in Australia.

Riksta · 07-03-2010, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cosmo20btt

Yet again it would have boiled down to price, why buy a Australian LWB luxo taxi when for the same amount you can have a Bimmer, Merc, or Audi. We need to make cheaper here if we want to continue to produce - sell cars here in Australia.

Yeah for sure you can have a car like that for the same price.

I wouldn't want to be the one paying for anything that goes wrong on one of them though, as opposed to a locally produced machine.

cosmo20btt · 07-03-2010, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riksta

Yeah for sure you can have a car like that for the same price.

I wouldn't want to be the one paying for anything that goes wrong on one of them though, as opposed to a locally produced machine.

Sorry, you didn't get what I mean't, I was being sarcastic in regards to people that decide to buy import market because of the perception that Ford has in the market place, people will not buy Australian as it would be considered bogan to drive a fairlane. Only way to change this is to reset the market, go back to when the system used to work, then go on from there.

jpd80 · 07-03-2010, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riksta

I don't think the market moved away from that kind of vehicle. They should have kept the long wheelbase, the amount of LWB VE's (Stato/Caprice) I see is astounding! If Holden can keep making their rubbish surely Ford could have kept the LWB models too.

Holden sold just over 2,000 Caprice/Statesman in 2009 while an aging Territory still managed 10,800 sales.

An FG based Fairlane would be nice but no business case in compariso to a new Territory.
Maybe FoA could partner up with the US for a Town Car replacement?

P6LTD351 · 07-03-2010, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

Holden sold just over 2,000 Caprice/Statesman in 2009 while an aging Territory still managed 10,800 sales.

An FG based Fairlane would be nice but no business case in compariso to a new Territory.
Maybe FoA could partner up with the US for a Town Car replacement?

Yes.

Only reason that the Statesman/Caprice still exists is because of the export market.

BOSHOG · 07-03-2010, 09:59 PM

statesman/caprice sales are loe because holden and ford have priced them too high. for that kind of money youd buy BMW, merc or lexus. so unless the fairlane is going to be much cheaper than these (not happening) then its gone for good

jpd80 · 07-03-2010, 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BOSHOG

statesman/caprice sales are loe because holden and ford have priced them too high. for that kind of money youd buy BMW, merc or lexus. so unless the fairlane is going to be much cheaper than these (not happening) then its gone for good

If Ford and Holden start producing mid sized and large cars off the same platform,
the Asian Mid sized brigade would really struggle against locally developed cars..

Maybe this should be the aim of Ford and Holden for their next product cycles,
cover two important and profitable segments with locally developed vehicles.

If Falcon used a longer wheelbase, the change up/down in vehicle size could be made easier
by using common cabin and changing nose/tail lengths and moving rear seat position about...

**Silver Ghia** · 07-03-2010, 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iliov

Yer sure mate.....

All I can say is don't give up your day job. This doesn't prove anything, just have a better look at some of the hatches going about these days.

And those who say I should get a Mondeo, I haven't come across one yet that comes in a RWD XR6, G6E, or even as an FPV GS, which would also have a longer boot length with the rear seat down. And I don't want to only carry pipes around either, the height of the seatback cutout in the FG sedan is rather restrictive.

**Fordman1** · 08-03-2010, 01:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

If Ford and Holden start producing mid sized and large cars off the same platform,
the Asian Mid sized brigade would really struggle against locally developed cars..

Maybe this should be the aim of Ford and Holden for their next product cycles,
cover two important and profitable segments with locally developed vehicles.

If Falcon used a longer wheelbase, the change up/down in vehicle size could be made easier
by using common cabin and changing nose/tail lengths and moving rear seat position about...

Won't happen .....

One Ford already has a Medium size platform specified "across the board". FoA is bound by that platform, and eventually by ALL corporate platforms.

There won't be a second medium platform - the one available is it......

A couple of years ago Mondeo was being touted as the Falcon replacement with potential spin offs for FoA (eg: SUV etc).

I wonder what the plan is now.

snappy · 08-03-2010, 01:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barraxr8

Won't happen .....

One Ford already has a Medium size platform specified "across the board". FoA is bound by that platform, and eventually by ALL corporate platforms.

There won't be a second medium platform - the one available is it......

A couple of years ago Mondeo was being touted as the Falcon replacement with potential spin offs for FoA (eg: SUV etc).

I wonder what the plan is now.

This is by far the best thing ford has done one ford is the way to not to mention the way of the future . More devolpment dollars and shared costs .

mik · 08-03-2010, 02:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BOSHOG

statesman/caprice sales are loe because holden and ford have priced them too high. for that kind of money youd buy BMW, merc or lexus. so unless the fairlane is going to be much cheaper than these (not happening) then its gone for good

it looks to me like an equal lexus is quite a bit more expensive at $126,900.00 unless its a poverty pack lexus? back it up with some facts and figures if your gonna make a statement like that.
i left out the drive away price is $137000.

iliov · 08-03-2010, 05:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silver Ghia

All I can say is don't give up your day job. This doesn't prove anything, just have a better look at some of the hatches going about these days.

And those who say I should get a Mondeo, I haven't come across one yet that comes in a RWD XR6, G6E, or even as an FPV GS, which would also have a longer boot length with the rear seat down. And I don't want to only carry pipes around either, the height of the seatback cutout in the FG sedan is rather restrictive.

It took 5 mins you nerd, wouldn't spend anymore time proving you wrong.

ltd · 08-03-2010, 09:19 AM

The reason LWB cars died for ford was based on the lack of differentiation from the sedans. I've owned a few of them over the years and can be frank about it, the BA LTD whilst a great car was as boring as watching old people do it.
The car was plain inside and out and not until BAII did they do anything to set it apart visually from the XT. By the time BF came out ford had a great car but it was too late, the Caprice and Statesmans at the time looked a lot nicer, and had more power. If ford had have done a fairlane and ltd in FG (especially the interior) and had of stuck the turbo 6 in as an option, it probably would have sold very, very well.

As for the X5 and other similar vehicles, my opinion is the same as Clarksons. They're crap. Why the hell would I want a slushbox that chews extra petrol because it weighs more, and has the aerodynamic properties of a cow in a tornado? Also, if sedans are so yesterday why does BMW, Merc and the others still make more sedans than SUV's?
Nope, Falcon has to stay sedan. Don't like it, then buy the new territory.

ltd · 08-03-2010, 09:23 AM

Nice job on the photochop Iliov.
Kinda proves the point of how horrid a hatchback falcon would look.

BOSHOG · 08-03-2010, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mik

it looks to me like an equal lexus is quite a bit more expensive at $126,900.00 unless its a poverty pack lexus? back it up with some facts and figures if your gonna make a statement like that.
i left out the drive away price is $137000.

I know what id rather drive, even if they are SLIGHTLY more

CAPRICE
http://www.carsales.com.au/all-cars/...s=81&silo=1011

IS250C
http://www.carsales.com.au/all-cars/bncis/details.aspx?R=8408654&__sid=1272593674FA&__Qpb=tr ue&Cr=1&__Ns=pCar_PriceSort_Decimal|1||pCar_RankSo rt_Int32|1||pCar_Make_String|0||pCar_Model_String| 0&keywords=&__N=1216 1252 1246 4294965468 468 450&PriceFrom=468&PriceTo=450&seot=1&__Nne=15&trec s=43&silo=1011

MERC C280
http://www.carsales.com.au/all-cars/...s=48&silo=1011

Chopped · 08-03-2010, 12:52 PM

Hatches !

Audi A5 hatch is a good example

**Silver Ghia** · 08-03-2010, 01:55 PM

Thank you Chopped. Must admit the Audi looks better than the Merc however.

mik · 08-03-2010, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BOSHOG

I know what id rather drive, even if they are SLIGHTLY more

CAPRICE
http://www.carsales.com.au/all-cars/...s=81&silo=1011

IS250C
http://www.carsales.com.au/all-cars/bncis/details.aspx?R=8408654&__sid=1272593674FA&__Qpb=tr ue&Cr=1&__Ns=pCar_PriceSort_Decimal|1||pCar_RankSo rt_Int32|1||pCar_Make_String|0||pCar_Model_String| 0&keywords=&__N=1216 1252 1246 4294965468 468 450&PriceFrom=468&PriceTo=450&seot=1&__Nne=15&trec s=43&silo=1011

MERC C280
http://www.carsales.com.au/all-cars/...s=48&silo=1011

they have a fair bit of kit, i think i`d rather the g6et in velvet ;0