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#61 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: QLD
Posts: 4,446
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Quote:
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FORD RULES OK The more I know ppl the more I love my DOGS. 2011 SY Territory Limited Edition TS 2000 AUII SE ute IL6 |
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#62 | ||
That Canadian guy.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Toronto, Canada.
Posts: 67
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Same as here. We got graduated licensing "because Australia had it'. They actually said that when they shoved it down our throats!!!!! Then they said road fatalitys for 16 year olds in the first year went down. Well DUH!! No one caught on to the fact that the reason why was because they weren't allowed to DRIVE!! And of course at 17 they STILL can't drive!
Time to get rid of it and teach people how to drive instead of paralell park/pass a test. Teach car control and come up with a REAL driving test instead of the jokes they have now. Require a driver to get sideways on wet pavement and straighten out before issuing a pass. After that, it's up to them. Get rid of GPS, traction control, stability control (They're actually legislating it IN as standard equip. here now!!), radar guided parking, lanechange, turn signals and cruise control. Ban cellphones, in car Email systems, etc and ENFORCE IT!! Stop convincing people that driving takes no brains/attention span and make them DRIVE when they're behind the heel. Raise the highway speed limits at LEAST 20%.
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Den from Canada. (Want safer drivers? Ban cellphones, GPS/NAV, traction/stability Control and parking sensors. That'd be a good start! If you're that bad a driver-WALK!! PLEASE WALK!!) |
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#63 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: QLD
Posts: 4,446
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Quote:
Agreed and I said so earlier.
__________________
FORD RULES OK The more I know ppl the more I love my DOGS. 2011 SY Territory Limited Edition TS 2000 AUII SE ute IL6 |
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#64 | ||
The Guy You Love To Hate
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Vic
Posts: 1,203
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Yeah but really, people are going to die on the roads no matter what.
It is terrible but why does every keep beating a dead horse? The numbers can certainly be minimized but will never be zero. There will always be heroes, dropkicks and just plain bad drivers who's momentary foolishness or inattentiveness will result in a death. I think it was agreed on this site a while ago, that the solution is a different licencing system, with advanced driver training required to drive high-performance cars and improved basic training. Implementation will be too expensive so it will never happen unless licencing becomes outsourced to a private operator like motorbike licence (which is a great system IMO). |
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#65 | |||
Only a matter of time.
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 1,127
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I drove 2 years on my L-plates, 16-18 best 2 years. Trouble today is the instructors themselves are pretty shit drivers. Some are very good and teach you many things, Others just don't care it's the system of get it first time or don't pay next time that is wrong. In my first 2 weeks of driving i got fined for speeding, Blown a tyre and was almost cut off into a pole. All 3 things taught me a great deal. Blown tyre awareness and follow what i read in the book of keeping a firm grip of the wheels and don't apply brakes too hard and move to the side of the road when you can. Cut off almost into a pole, Know your surroundings and never trust another car or driver on the road there unpredictable, I was able too use a little extra part of the road and avoid both car and pole. And the fine was great, Too be pulled up and humiliated at 18. I went home and was very happy it happen because it taught me noone is invincible that's a wake up call bring you back too earth. But not everyone can learn many people will not even bother no matter how much you teach them in the end it's up too them too accept the teachings. I was very lucky that my mother allowed me too drive us everywhere we went for 2 years, So when i went for some testing my instructor said i was ready but we would do some driving around too keep all i will need very fresh, Went for my P's i was very nerves but passed first shot and all was good. But you can still train them how too drive but it's up too them in the end if that training gets onto the street, Nothing beats a good 5-10 years behind the wheel, So unless we start drivers earlier they will never gain huge on road experience.
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"SOUNDS THAT GO BUMP IN THE NIGHT" |
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#66 | ||
BLUE OVAL INC.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 8,645
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Hey guys sorry to but in but i thought this needed my 2c worth.
First of all i cant believe half of the crap that has been written in this thread, although i must admit after the first page and a half it was heading down the same ol path it usually does. The cold hard facts are people, D.ick heads will kill themselves regardless of laws, fines, driver education, liscence suspension etc. Yes, if you make getting your L's harder, you will better educate young drivers. Yes, if you introduce advanced driver training, you will better educate young drivers. Yes, if you apply harsher conditions to semi skilled drivers, you will better educate young drivers. Yes, if you suspend a young drivers liscence for a stupid driving error, you will better educate young drivers. The problem is, the type of drivers that you would be targeting are not the ones getting themselves killed on trees. It would simply be making it harder for genuinely sensible people to hold a liscence. Who honestly believes that a piece of plastic 3"x1.5" in size would make any difference to the outcome of this event. The type of clown doing the speeds required to do that to a statesman, is as likely to care for liscence restrictions as the care he gave for the speed limit where it happened. As for burnout pads and drag strips, CARS ARE TRANSPORT! Yes we need cars to a certain extent to survive in todays world, but thinking that having a place for people to thrash their cars in a controlled environment may solve this problem is outrageous. If people want to race, fair enough, but build a dedicated race car and race it. Cops hang around these places for a reason and that would be that the hooning very rarely stays on the track. We are wasting our time with the current generation of new drivers, this must be tackled at a young age. We teach our kids Stranger danger, how to handle an emergency at home, how to carry scissors, how to feed the bleedin dog, yet we are asked to teach them bugg.er all about driving. My son is only eight years old but whenever we are driving together we are always discussing road conditions and talk about whats going on at each intersection or what other drivers are doing. I try to show him the correct way to drive in relation to constantly changing surroundings. I want him to be confident within his own driving to the point where it is a naturally flowing thing, and constantly remind him that if he is confident and relaxed he is more aware of what the other guy is doing. |
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#67 | ||
HSV - I just ate one!
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Middle of nowhere
Posts: 3,122
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so driving a smaller, 4 cyl car is inherently safer than a fullsize 6/8cyl falcon/commodore, huh?
these photos are the result of what happened about 3 months ago Tony Farrel, 24 lost control of his camry on a slight bend at a speed police estimate to be 160-180, he put 2 wheels in the dirt on the wrong side of the road and overcorrected, hitting a power pole pretty much just in front of the B pillar, the car hit the pole hard enough to blow the rear window out, and pushed into the car roughly 2/3 across where the drivers seat would normally be, and the impact was so hard that while the pole pushed that far in, the front and rear wheels still appear to be in line with each other..... First aid was on the scene literally on scene within a minute, an ambulance was on scene within 5 minutes, but the driver died in the car before he could be released, and you could hear the passenger screaming a block away when the ambo's got her out of the car. she died 3-4 days later from what i heard. couple of years ago a friend of mine rolled his EL Falcon about 20km along the same road at similar speeds at around 1am, it was a good 20 minutes before anyone arrived and neither the driver nor passenger could find thier phones. one of the best trauma docs in queensland was on scene soon after and commented at the time that with the amount of blood that was around, he doubted anyone could be alive both driver and passenger walked away from it, passenger with a few cuts and bruises, driver with a pretty mangled right arm and some cuts and bruises, IIRC he was in hospital for less than a week, but he's fine now the message here? smaller cars will do the same speeds, but there's less to protect the occupants when things go to shit |
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#68 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Sydney
Posts: 1,974
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The problem is I don't think there is a solution that will stop ALL young driver deaths. There are more and more cars on the road each year and accidents tend to be proportional to congestion.
What do I think would help: 1) Before you get issued your L's you have to attend a half day education session run by the RTA. This won't involve practical just theory for now. 2) L platers should no longer be allowed to be trained soley by their parents. Sorry but every second driver on the road is a moron - why would you want a moron training an impressionable youth = another moron. Thus make a certain number of proffesional instructer lessons compulsary - say 3 for arguments sake - once you do the 5 lessons you are eligible to apply for your P1 license. (yes I know a lot on here are good parents/drivers/teachers but we are enthusiasts - a minorty - you must always legislate to the lowest common denominator). 3) On the day of the P1 lisence test (ok stealing a little from the bike test now) you attend a 2 day RTA training course. The first day is a mixture of theory and practical driving on a skidpan. First half of second day everyone is on a skidpan that mimicks the road - traffic lights, roundabouts, stop signs all set up, skidpan can be a mixture of wet/dry and obstacles can jump out at random. Students must drive this course whilst instructers grade them. Second half of the day if the instructer deems they are ready all students get in the car by themselves and convoy through public streets with an instructer following at the rear in an RTA car grading everyone. At a certain stop point the instructer gets in each car and goes for a short drive with the student to ensure they are doing everything right. If yes they get a certificate. Take the certificate to the RTA and pass a written test on roadrules and attitude to get your lisence. Having said all that I still don't think you can ever change the fact that many under 23 drivers are inexperienced, overconfident and invincible. But its a start.
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1966 Ford Mustang coupe. 347 stroker, PA reverse manual C4, TCE high stall converter, B&M Pro Ratchet, Edelbrock alum heads, Edelbrock intake manifold, MSD ignition, Holley Street HP 750 CFM carb, gilmer drive, wrapped Hooker Super Comp Headers, dual 3" straight through exhaust, Bilstein shocks, custom springs, full poly suspension, American Racing rims, Open Tracker roller spring saddles and shelby drop. Still to go - Holley Sniper EFI with integrated fuel cell. |
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#69 | |||
Banned
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: brisbane
Posts: 2,039
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#70 | ||
Banned
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: brisbane
Posts: 2,039
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Very good, i have never said that is going to solve the problem, but please show me the ratio of young people getting killed in high powered vehicles vs those killed in 4 cyl cars? 2-1, 5-1, 10-1. I would still like to hear these poor kids who have died complain, i want to be able to drive a v8 its my right, for a year, than watch them dead on tv, anyday of the week.
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#71 | ||
PM me if you want
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Pk Ranger Modding - QLD 👍
Posts: 7,498
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2,3,4,6,8 cylinders makes no difference, rwkw of just 50 is enough for you to kill yourself given enough road and a silly or unfortunate mistake or set of circumstances.
I agree education is the only hope, but as young people know better, I dont thin kit will do enough. Personally, I look at this way, the media like to print every accident they can so a greater awareness is probably all we have now then being in the dark over previous years, more people get a licence every year, so the percentage remains the same, just more people have accidents. Nothing much as changed over time, cars have gotten safer, maybe more powerful, more cars on the road, but at the end of the day the accidents happen when most cars are off the road, so what do you do. I think take them to a hospital show them the poor kid in traction, show the car the kid was him, SCARE tactics is the only hope. red_hotxr6 I owned a 4cyl car on my P's i could get into more trouble in that car then my brothers V8 HQ statesman, so power aint a real reason.
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Owner of first ever car to retrofit BA SSS - the EA2BA Send me a PM if you want to know anything 2010 Ford Ranger PK High Rider (Auto) - 2011 Ford Fiesta (Auto)
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#72 | ||
That Canadian guy.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Toronto, Canada.
Posts: 67
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Then hopefully we can get the over 65 drivers off the road. Over here they actually have HIGHER accident rates than the under 23's! That's why our comercials, media, etc no longer say younger drivers have the "highest accident rates". They now say "among the highest" but few people have noticed.....
But that's quite another can of worms! :SaiyanSmi
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Den from Canada. (Want safer drivers? Ban cellphones, GPS/NAV, traction/stability Control and parking sensors. That'd be a good start! If you're that bad a driver-WALK!! PLEASE WALK!!) |
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#73 | |||
Banned
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: brisbane
Posts: 2,039
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Quote:
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#74 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Canberra
Posts: 13,382
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Quote:
They're not going to give a POS airtime on the news because too many people believe that high powered cars are so damn dangerous and they have the bandwagon to support playing it on the news. Oh well I'm fully licenced now :P It's amazing how much less attention you get from the cops without P plates. Funny that it's still the same car. I will still offer my support for Team P plate. |
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#75 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 161
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Maybe a device that records the speed of the vehicle of the P plater and their driving habits, basically a black box that can be simply linked to an authorised ckecking station where the vehicle can be called in at random , or randomly placed checking points where data can be uploaded similar to an E tag. RTA/ Pollice can do random checks anywhere/anytime and any antisocial driving ie speeding, wheels spin, excessive rpm all dealt with by long suspensions and fines.
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#76 | |||||||
Mot Adv-NSW
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lake Macquarie, NSW
Posts: 2,153
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The NSW system is being adopted nationwide, and will/does in administration form part the National Driver Training Scheme. We in turn source much of its program from Europe, primarily Sweden. (I'd have taken the German position but this terrifies Australian academics, seriously - but anyway). Quote:
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We still go too fast in residential streets and dreadfully slowly on freeways, our inter-urban freeways are not up to scratch insofar 'safety' as the European networks, owing second-class engineering safety specifications taught from US Interstate construction experience. A good thing is that as the US adopts Euro median barrier, there will be a flow-on effect here as that US experience is passed on down through academia. But the road users, thats a whole other issue.
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ORDER FORD AUSTRALIA PART NO: AM6U7J19G329AA. This is a European-UN/AS3790B Spec safety-warning triangle used to give advanced warning to approaching traffic of a vehicle breakdown, or crash scene (to prevent secondary). Stow in the boot area. See your Ford dealer for this $35.95 safety item & when you buy a new Ford, please insist on it! See Page 83, part 4.4.1 http://www.transport.wa.gov.au/media...eSafePart4.pdf |
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#77 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,652
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Raise the age to 19. Make insurance compulsory with scanners to enforce it.
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#78 | ||
Punch it baby, punch it.
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Working hard. If you work hard you get the goodies.
Posts: 581
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Australian national average deaths per 100,000 as at 2004 (latest figures I could find) avaraged 9.1.
Germany averaged 7.1 and the UK 5.6. Now, considering they have far higher average highway speeds and have to deal with ice and snow for many months of the year, I wonder what the fundamental difference is? I assume with the Germans its driver education, but what are the Poms doing to have such a good record?
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"Sweat saves blood. Blood saves lives. Brains save both" Erwin Rommel. |
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#79 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Near Canberra
Posts: 882
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Quote:
Regards, Tote
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Go Home, Your Igloo is on Fire.... |
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#80 | ||
Banned
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Livin On The Edge
Posts: 7,354
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[QUOTE=flappist]True, but my nearest track is Benaraby which is about 280km away.
The next closest is Willowbank which is about 400km away. I can aford to travel that far but many young people can't so there is an "unofficial dragstrip" at Tuan than no one knows about except the security staff at the 24hr chip mill just up the road who call the police whenever they see headlights. A lot of the problem really is video games and "2 fast 2 furious" style movies that tend to imply to young people that doing really silly things is cool and you never get hurt and even if you do you just press "restart" and you are all better again. Mate i was going and watching the run's well before that movie came out, even before i got my licence. The licencing system up here is a joke. Learner drivers are taught to pass a test not control a motor vehicle. When I learned we used to go out into the bush and play at sliding etc because our cars were not powerful enough to spin the wheels on dry bitumen. I agree people are taught to pass a test there not taught driving skill's, this is what need's to be adressed. Teach people to judge speed and distances and the distance in which a car will pull up in. Maybe that is a possible but VERY unpopular solution. Limit new drivers to VERY underpowered vehicles. They'll still be an idiot regardless of what they drive, notice all the recent fatel accidents have been in low powered car's. To have fun or feel any form of rush they need to push the car hard, speed is the problem here not power. Or better still: The penalty for hooning is to have your licence endorsed "low power only" and restrict for a period of one or more years to 50kw/tonne manual only or whatever. A large pink "H" plate must be displayed at all times. No excuses. If the only car in the family is a V8 or whatever then you WALK. The penaly for breaching this is the same as unlicenced driving. Driving in a wussmobile for a year will improve you skills significantly because you will have to learn to drive or you will never get anywhere. Wrong driving a low powered car for a year will not make you a better driver, people need to be shown how to do things. Let them make mistakes then correct them.[/QUOTE] I'm due to face court for some serious driving offences and im currecntly in the process of doing a offender's driving program run by the police, ambo's, RTA, fire brigade. They all blame highpowered car's for the death's of P plater's but in the last 12 months alone in nsw theyvé been restriceted to low powered car's yet there's been a 2o% jump in the death rate in my local area alone, the hwp driving instructor who told us this clearly pointed it out but still belive's that performance car's are the problem. Now i may be looking at this all the wong way but every video i've seen and every picture ivé been shown while doing this course have basically all stemmed from 1 thing, driver inability. Not judging speed, not judging distance, not watching the road and they all lead to over correction or in some cases the wrong decsion being made and the loss of controll. Speed is a contributing factor some of the time but no car was ever designed to hit a pole or a tree at 6o+k's. Teach people HOW to drive not how to pass a test. |
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#81 | |||
Banned
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Livin On The Edge
Posts: 7,354
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#82 | |||
Banned
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Livin On The Edge
Posts: 7,354
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#83 | |||
Weezland
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Sydney,workshop mod
Posts: 7,216
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#84 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Canberra
Posts: 13,382
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Quote:
![]() As for the 4cyl argument. Well I owned an N/A one and currently own a turbo one. The N/A one did 150km/h+ very easy! |
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#85 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Sunny Melbourne
Posts: 546
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Bring in compulsory pre drive self gratification, that ought to calm some of these people down a bit on the road.
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#86 | ||
Pimpin My VK
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Geelong, VIC
Posts: 79
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on my way home from town i saw a 80's landcruiser that had taken a power pole out and had rolled, then after we got passed it sum one driving a lambo decided to overtake 3 cars at well over 150k's coming up to a blind spot. the lambo certainly wasnt a p plater and im sure the landcruiser wasnt either, so why should P platers have all these restrictions enforced on them when a lot of full licence holders cant drive properly either
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#87 | |||
The Guy You Love To Hate
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Vic
Posts: 1,203
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Quote:
Lol, having a **** before going out for a drive. I love it. Youre probably right too, i think everyone cruises very slowly in that "post sex" stage. |
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#88 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Sydney, NSW
Posts: 2,368
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#89 | ||
Starter Motor
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 13
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I have five students I taught last year, just released from hospital after an accident on the year 12 graduation night. One other- a friend's nephew is still on life support. They don't think and they don't have the skills to handle any vehicle a lot of the time. Our 16 year old starts racing speedway next year with us, as all of our five kids will do. It won't stop them being stupid, but at least they might be able to get themselves out of enough trouble to not get killed. I shudder when I recall the lack of skills I had before I started racing. They really need to do PRACTICAL courses and not just weekend ones either
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#90 | |||
Its Resonating!
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sydney, NSW
Posts: 1,612
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