Major Ford announcement

[TMC]

Agree with above. Most European cars are bought new in this country. Why. Well once the warranty runs out things go wrong that cost more than the car to fix. Hence they are traded in at that point and the owner gets rid of them as quickly as someone who's just found a cobra in their house. Resale value for European cars (Citroen, Renault etc) is absolutely awful as their is no demand for them. Buying a second hand Ford helps keep the demand up and resale prices higher. Also fixing a Ford is cheap compared to imports. So buying a second hand Ford helps generate new car sales.

[burnz]

Originally Posted by TMC

Agree with above. Most European cars are bought new in this country. Why. Well once the warranty runs out things go wrong that cost more than the car to fix. Hence they are traded in at that point and the owner gets rid of them as quickly as someone who's just found a cobra in their house. Resale value for European cars (Citroen, Renault etc) is absolutely awful as their is no demand for them. Buying a second hand Ford helps keep the demand up and resale prices higher. Also fixing a Ford is cheap compared to imports. So buying a second hand Ford helps generate new car sales.

I said in another thread that insurance companies should be cheaper on local products.

a small bingle on an import typically writes it off as the cost of a front bumper plus airbags is exorbitant.

[Charliewool]

Wouldn't ALL European cars be bought NEW here?

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Charliewool

Wouldn't ALL European cars be bought NEW here?

Not all, there is a grey market in higher end euros such as Astons, Jags, Maseratis etc.

As far as the "out of warranty so nobody wants them" babble, a simple carsales search will show that this is not the case. Some cars hold value better than others.

e.g. A 3 year old BMW 335i (2010) is about $60k and was $95k new.

On the other hand a 3 year old FPV GTE 5.4 which was also almost $90k new is high $30s, low $40s.

[Orangejuicepony]

Well, the writing has been on the wall for many years, you could see it in the way the local cars have been updated (or lack of).

I have always advocated that the Australian design and ideas are the best in the world, but we just don't have the market to suport making these ideas a reality.

Holden have come close by sharing the platform and borrowing technology from other models. But even that is still hit and miss.

The Territory was the better car, had the greater market interest, and was more relavent (especially with the TDV6). But it was neglected (due to the budget) and is still half assed even in it's best guise.

I think this move is for the better, I am releived actually, and I think we will see much better imported options that will be closer to what we should have been building here.

And if it is not RWD, not to worry there are still a lot of load hauling RWD options out there, most of them superior anyway in most areas (especially build quality and features).

Sad day yes, but silver lining there for most of the country, just a few blue blooded fans to shrink quietly away as did the nameplate they lived and breathed. Maybe this will open their eyes to the other options out there, maybe even a few suprises!

My thoughts go to the workers, but I beleive most will leave with money in their pocket and a good two years to find other work.

[TMC]

Originally Posted by flappist

Not all, there is a grey market in higher end euros such as Astons, Jags, Maseratis etc.

As far as the "out of warranty so nobody wants them" babble, a simple carsales search will show that this is not the case. Some cars hold value better than others.

e.g. A 3 year old BMW 335i (2010) is about $60k and was $95k new.

On the other hand a 3 year old FPV GTE 5.4 which was also almost $90k new is high $30s, low $40s.

My relatives bought a new Citroen back in 06. Went OK during warranty. Warranty ran out and entire air suspension collapsed on all 4 corners. $13000 to fix. They sold it as is for $6000.

I love BMW. The closest European stuff to Aussie Fords. Friend of mine has a 2006 X5. Nice car. New was over $100,000. They bought it 5 years old for $30,000. That's a $70,000 loss for the original owner. Luckily they had a dealer warranty as in a few weeks a module went in the gearbox that would have cost $3000. Luckily he's a Swedish robotics engineer and knows his way around things and does his own repairs. He had the harmonic balancer go on it. BMW wanted $1200 in Australia. He imported it from Norway for just $300 landed and fixed it himself. The average person wouldn't do that.

Same with Land Rover. The same friend has one that has 8 computers in it that must communicate together properly or the whole thing falls to crap. He just had a weird thing go wrong with the indicators and security system due to a communication error between the modules. He took the thing to Land Rover and they didn't know what they were doing. He ended up figuring it out himself.

That's the thing with second hand Euro's. They're great in warranty, but out of warranty you better figure out how to fix it yourself or you'll be sorry.

[mik]

Originally Posted by TMC

My relatives bought a new Citroen back in 06. Went OK during warranty. Warranty ran out and entire air suspension collapsed on all 4 corners. $13000 to fix. They sold it as is for $6000.

I love BMW. The closest European stuff to Aussie Fords. Friend of mine has a 2006 X5. Nice car. New was over $100,000. They bought it 5 years old for $30,000. That's a $70,000 loss for the original owner. Luckily they had a dealer warranty as in a few weeks a module went in the gearbox that would have cost $3000. Luckily he's a Swedish robotics engineer and knows his way around things and does his own repairs. He had the harmonic balancer go on it. BMW wanted $1200 in Australia. He imported it from Norway for just $300 landed and fixed it himself. The average person wouldn't do that.

Same with Land Rover. The same friend has one that has 8 computers in it that must communicate together properly or the whole thing falls to crap. He just had a weird thing go wrong with the indicators and security system due to a communication error between the modules. He took the thing to Land Rover and they didn't know what they were doing. He ended up figuring it out himself.

That's the thing with second hand Euro's. They're great in warranty, but out of warranty you better figure out how to fix it yourself or you'll be sorry.

I agree mate , even jap parts can be very expensive compared to our locals and, we always used to say, land rovers /range rovers you need to be a mechanic because if not they can be hugely expensive to maintain.

[Auslandau]

Actually been dissappointed that the GT doesnt have the words Falcon on the back! If people do ask I say I have a Falcon anway .......

[JG66ME]

Originally Posted by Auslandau

Actually been dissappointed that the GT doesnt have the words Falcon on the back! If people do ask I say I have a Falcon anway .......

XA and XB GT didn't either.

[Adamz Ghia]

Lets assume Ford built Focus, Falcon, Falcon Ute and Territory here, and they sold 40,000, 15,000, 6000 and 12,000 respectively. You'd assume on Falcons numbers that they would have retired it in 2016 anyways, therefore scrapping the home grown Territory as well. Would the manufacturing plant have survived? I ask as many have blamed the decision to scrap Focus production on the plant closing, in today's climate and with Thailand up the water above us, would it have made a difference...?

[BossBrand]

I work at a company in the city and it never ceases to amaze me when i drive into the car park how Aussie cars are hardly owned by affluent city types these days. I'd say over 50% are Euro and the rest Jap, Korean etc.. I am certainly the only one driving a Falcon out of at least 300 cars.. Sad sad

[Lotte]

Originally Posted by BossBrand

I work at a company in the city and it never ceases to amaze me when i drive into the car park how Aussie cars are hardly owned by affluent city types these days. I'd say over 50% are Euro and the rest Jap, Korean etc.. I am certainly the only one driving a Falcon out of at least 300 cars.. Sad sad

This is something I see a lot too. Both from the station to the office, and in the multi story car park where our work cars (bloody camrys), are stored.

[Orangejuicepony]

Originally Posted by BossBrand

I work at a company in the city and it never ceases to amaze me when i drive into the car park how Aussie cars are hardly owned by affluent city types these days. I'd say over 50% are Euro and the rest Jap, Korean etc.. I am certainly the only one driving a Falcon out of at least 300 cars.. Sad sad

There might be a good reason for that, our company had some BA Falcons, and to be honest they performed great, but they were always being fixed somehow.

Since then we are now running Jap 4WDs (much dearer) but when you factor in the resale they are cheaper, and from memory none of them has had more than an oil change or a new clutch in 250,000kms.

So the perception around here is that the Aus built cars are rubbish compared to Jap, not because of any facts, but becuase of the poor showing they had when we had them, and the good showing our current choices have made on us. Also the customer service of Ford was, um, embarissing. And our current choice actualy make you want to spend money there, whether or not you get any better technical service or not.

Subseqently our next purchase of cars being discussed right now is already locked to a large jap brand and will be of 4WD variety. Not even the Ranger can convince us of a change, that is why local manufacturing is gone. People were burned and ****ed off, and the huge selection of new cars that emerged stole there buying power, and the superior customer service of some of those brands keeps them there next time around.

A crappy dealership can ruin an entire brands status.

[westy73]

Originally Posted by Orangejuicepony

Subseqently our next purchase of cars being discussed right now is already locked to a large jap brand and will be of 4WD variety. Not even the Ranger can convince us of a change, that is why local manufacturing is gone. People were burned and ****ed off, and the huge selection of new cars that emerged stole there buying power, and the superior customer service of some of those brands keeps them there next time around.

A crappy dealership can ruin an entire brands status.

I think the main problem is we seem to be embarrassed to be called Australian at all. It's almost like we are trying to be some other country and by allowing every other country to DUMP their imports without restriction here we strangle our own manufacturers. To make it easier let's just call ourselves KorChiEurJapTaiMalUSAlian and forget Australia even exists. Then none of us will have to be embarrassed any more.

I for one love Ford Australia products, for the development budgets they have had and the engineering that resulted from that investment and I am proud to BE Australian and to BUY Australian.

[stevz]

Originally Posted by westy73

I think the main problem is we seem to be embarrassed to be called Australian at all. It's almost like we are trying to be some other country and by allowing every other country to DUMP their imports without restriction here we strangle our own manufacturers. To make it easier let's just call ourselves KorChiEurJapTaiMalUSAlian and forget Australia even exists. Then none of us will have to be embarrassed any more.

I for one love Ford Australia products, for the development budgets they have had and the engineering that resulted from that investment and I am proud to BE Australian and to BUY Australian.

Well said. This country is losing its identity and we are too busy pandering to everyone else to do anything about it. ***** me to tears.

[I6DOHC]

Originally Posted by stevz

Well said. This country is losing its identity and we are too busy pandering to everyone else to do anything about it. ***** me to tears.

I agree with those sentiments as well and many similar I this thread. I just can't let this one go, it has cut too deep. It's more than just losing a 'car'. It's about losing something we'll never get back, and it will affect future generations...our kids and their kids. That makes it personal.

Casting the red/blue thing to the side, losing Ford means we'll lose Holden. The fact this country has the skills to not only design world class vehicles, but can execute the build and assembly is something of real tangible value. In my opinion it's in the national interest to preserve those skills and the means, and not let them walk out the door without so much as a dull whimper.

Time is short to do something about this, that is quite clear, but as others have said on this forum it just can't be over yet. The announcement was to close Oct 2016, they aren't closed yet though. In a perfect world it is still 3years and 5 months away. Perhaps in reality the glass is only 1/4 full....but it's not empty yet!

The events of the 23rd May serve as a significant marker in Australia's history. We are effectively witnessing the beginning of the end of the Australian manufacturing industry on the premise of globalisation. It's been happening across all industries for far too long, and on our watch. In my opinion the gravity of Ford's announcement presents a fork in the road for our nation and us individually.

As always, the choices are simple.

1. Do nothing, stop whingeing and accept the fact we will lose the automotive industry and ultimately our skills and manufacturing base in this country. Continue purchasing imported goods, and who knows, hopefully one day the government might also drop the 'tariffs' and initiate a FTA on the labour market. Then not only is there a choice to buy those cheap imported goods, there is a way to start buying cheap imported labour as well. Imagine how the government's bottom line would improve if they could simply plug imported labour into the public service. That way you could ensure people from the country of origin could drive the government fleet vehicles. Winning!

2. Take action and attempt to protect the future for next generation Australians.

I'm going to defer to Choice #2. I might be pushing the proverbial sack of excrement uphill but I just can't roll with #1. If the industry is to die, I want to at least be able to say to my children I tried to do something.

My first action is to start a email/letter campaign to the relevant stakeholders, including Ford, governments, business leaders and (if I can find any) influential patriots. From there it will be a personal campaign to try and get people/businesses to buy these great cars. My targets are those people in imported vehicles. For myself, I'll be committing to another ute & sedan purchase in the next 3 years.

Is there scope to start a separate thread on this, for only those people interested in choice #2? Maybe letters to Ford could be posted there so they at least might get back to the intended audience (is anyone from Ford active here anymore?) instead of put into the 'to be shredded pile' as the upper management departs for bigger and better positions back in Detroit.

[GT-spec15]

Originally Posted by westy73

I think the main problem is we seem to be embarrassed to be called Australian at all. It's almost like we are trying to be some other country and by allowing every other country to DUMP their imports without restriction here we strangle our own manufacturers. To make it easier let's just call ourselves KorChiEurJapTaiMalUSAlian and forget Australia even exists. Then none of us will have to be embarrassed any more.

I for one love Ford Australia products, for the development budgets they have had and the engineering that resulted from that investment and I am proud to BE Australian and to BUY Australian.

The problem with your statement is that such a narrow range of vehicles are manufactured here, and a Commo or Falcon is not for everyone.

I drive a WRX - show me an Australian manufactured alternative and I will be happy to buy it.

Dad drives a Navara Turbodiesel dual cab and a LandCruiser - what do we make that compares?

Sister drives a Pulsar - Cruze might be an alternative there, but was not around back in 2005.

Mum drives a 200SX - what do we make here in terms of lightweight RWD turbo sports cars?

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by GT-spec15

The problem with your statement is that such a narrow range of vehicles are manufactured here, and a Commo or Falcon is not for everyone.

I drive a WRX - show me an Australian manufactured alternative and I will be happy to buy it.

Dad drives a Navara Turbodiesel dual cab and a LandCruiser - what do we make that compares?

Sister drives a Pulsar - Cruze might be an alternative there, but was not around back in 2005.

Mum drives a 200SX - what do we make here in terms of lightweight RWD turbo sports cars?

...and I believe the man has hit the nail square on the head...only one of those cars mentioned (the Pulsar which could be replaced with an Australian built Cruze), which are all extremely popular vehicles in their classes, has a suitable equivalent made here in Australia.

Are we supposed to protect our industry so strongly that the only reasonably affordable cars are large big engined Falcons and Commodores, like the seventies when the road was just a sea of Falcons and Kingswoods? Itmay come as a shocking surprise to some people, but not everyone...even not everyone here on the board...actually wants or strongly desires a Falcon.

Ford does make some other interesting cars around the world...it's just that it's only recently that we were exposed to what we'd been missing out on, and there's better yet to come when we start getting some up-to-date tech in whatever the Yanks are going to export here.

[4stanger]

Originally Posted by GT-spec15

The problem with your statement is that such a narrow range of vehicles are manufactured here, and a Commo or Falcon is not for everyone.

I drive a WRX - show me an Australian manufactured alternative and I will be happy to buy it.

Dad drives a Navara Turbodiesel dual cab and a LandCruiser - what do we make that compares?

Sister drives a Pulsar - Cruze might be an alternative there, but was not around back in 2005.

Mum drives a 200SX - what do we make here in terms of lightweight RWD turbo sports cars?

True to form you will have a very good response to this post but it will be based on your opinion as this one is based on my opinion.
WRX nice cars to look at to some, very powerfull and rally pedigree.
We do have set speed limits in Oz and you probably use yours for rallies and club events etc. but do you need all that for every day driving to work to the shops and anything else? There is Oz made poser vehicles available. And they are very unique compared to the rest of the world. Try and buy one in Japan Europe etc.
Dad could drive an Awd territory towing a trailer, most people I have seen who have purchased late model 4wd or new hardly take it off road, those who take there 4wd REALLY off road have 10 year old + 4wds.

Agreed Cruze is a suitable A to B aussie made car that your sister could have considered. but like you said none around in 2005.

Mum wants a powerfull 2 door sports car to full fill her driving requirements? fine take the imports, Female mid life crisis cars are not a big market in new cars.
Flame me away as you please

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by GT-spec15

The problem with your statement is that such a narrow range of vehicles are manufactured here, and a Commo or Falcon is not for everyone.

I drive a WRX - show me an Australian manufactured alternative and I will be happy to buy it.

Dad drives a Navara Turbodiesel dual cab and a LandCruiser - what do we make that compares?

Sister drives a Pulsar - Cruze might be an alternative there, but was not around back in 2005.

Mum drives a 200SX - what do we make here in terms of lightweight RWD turbo sports cars?

So then, if I say that I have got in my 'mini' fleet that I have bought over the past few years and still have are:

2 Territories, the last one I picked up was a few weeks ago.

1 G6E

1 GT335

1 Ranger.

So that makes your point null and void?

They don't have a car that you want at the moment, neither do Subaru, Nissan, Toyota have something that I want. Ford do.

Point being, there are choices! Too many really but different things suit different people. Because things don't suit you doesn't mean that they are not worthy of being made nor are they unloved by others.

[GT-spec15]

Originally Posted by Orangejuicepony

There might be a good reason for that, our company had some BA Falcons, and to be honest they performed great, but they were always being fixed somehow.

Since then we are now running Jap 4WDs (much dearer) but when you factor in the resale they are cheaper, and from memory none of them has had more than an oil change or a new clutch in 250,000kms.

So the perception around here is that the Aus built cars are rubbish compared to Jap, not because of any facts, but becuase of the poor showing they had when we had them, and the good showing our current choices have made on us. Also the customer service of Ford was, um, embarissing. And our current choice actualy make you want to spend money there, whether or not you get any better technical service or not.

Subseqently our next purchase of cars being discussed right now is already locked to a large jap brand and will be of 4WD variety. Not even the Ranger can convince us of a change, that is why local manufacturing is gone. People were burned and ****ed off, and the huge selection of new cars that emerged stole there buying power, and the superior customer service of some of those brands keeps them there next time around.

A crappy dealership can ruin an entire brands status.

Heard a rather telling story from a friend who worked as a mechanic at a major Ford dealership in Melbourne. They had a new guy start, who had come across from a Mazda dealer after several years.

This new guy could not believe the number of issues that were fixed under warranty on Falcon/Territory, and told my friend "we just never saw these kinds of issues at Mazda".

[KIWI-1]

Originally Posted by GT-spec15

Heard a rather telling story from a friend who worked as a mechanic at a major Ford dealership in Melbourne. They had a new guy start, who had come across from a Mazda dealer after several years.

This new guy could not believe the number of issues that were fixed under warranty on Falcon/Territory, and told my friend "we just never saw these kinds of issues at Mazda".

I heard the same from someone who went from Mitsubishi to Ford.

Did motoring journalists fail Ford?
Motoring journalists failed in their analysis of Ford's FG Falcon. More critical reviews could have alerted the company sooner to the reasons why its flagship car was failing the marketplace, writes Julian Edgar.

http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/4720488.html

[FTE]

Ranger is a POS. well the ones we have at work anyway. We bought 20 of them and took delivery in December and had nothing but issues with most of them from day 1. The quality is less than desirable and just pus to drive. If this is quality then the FG falcon must have been woeful.
Based on FG not being up to standard compared to ranger then I think I will keep my AU

[turbodewd]

Originally Posted by FTE

Ranger is a POS. well the ones we have at work anyway. We bought 20 of them and took delivery in December and had nothing but issues with most of them from day 1. The quality is less than desirable and just pus to drive. If this is quality then the FG falcon must have been woeful.
Based on FG not being up to standard compared to ranger then I think I will keep my AU

Right, u rationalise your situation with your unloved AU. The FG is the best Falcon ever and the best car Ive ever owned.

Garbage post of the day.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by FTE

Ranger is a POS. well the ones we have at work anyway. We bought 20 of them and took delivery in December and had nothing but issues with most of them from day 1. The quality is less than desirable and just pus to drive. If this is quality then the FG falcon must have been woeful.
Based on FG not being up to standard compared to ranger then I think I will keep my AU

Whats wrong with these Rangers?

[Windsor220]

Originally Posted by FTE

Ranger is a POS. well the ones we have at work anyway. We bought 20 of them and took delivery in December and had nothing but issues with most of them from day 1. The quality is less than desirable and just pus to drive. If this is quality then the FG falcon must have been woeful.
Based on FG not being up to standard compared to ranger then I think I will keep my AU

Pretty much all of the commercial utes these days have problems. Tritons have a lot. BT50 which is similar to the Ranger has them. I've heard the Navara is having its fair share. I dont hold much hope for the new Colorado after previous ones. Hilux is the only one I cant comment on but from what I'm aware its not exactly new.

[GT-spec15]

Keen to hear also.

I know several people with Rangers and they rave about them. When Dad's Navara is due for replacement it'll most likely be a Ranger.

[Jason[98.EL]]

Originally Posted by GT-spec15

Keen to hear also.

I know several people with Rangers and they rave about them. When Dad's Navara is due for replacement it'll most likely be a Ranger.

Same my old man has already gone from Navara to Ranger and he raves about the ranger from power to fuel economy over the Navara

Admittingly he did have an issue with the trans but the guys at westpoint ford had it fixed in the window that he had back here in vic (1 day from memory )

[Anchor]

One guess? They have manuals and are all used to driving sloppy boxes and sliding them into any gear. Most people don't like change.. Especially a direct and short shifting manual gearbox in a 4x4 ute.

[2011G6E]

The only reason we have a Triton instead of a Ranger in the driveway is one thing and one thing only: price. Sixty grand for a Ranger XLT with no other options except for a towbar? Come on...and they knock Toyotas for staggering pricing on their four wheel drives...