Idiots on the road - Page 5

Deviateboy · 07-06-2007, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill_R

Totally agree. Even when merging one car needs to cross the broken line and needs to give way. Etiquette says that you let someone in but there is no law about it and if the situation is a bit risky or unclear then the car that needs to give way must yield. .

Not so..
Australian Road Rules Part 11-Keeping left, overtaking and other driving rules.
Division 4- Driving in Marked lanes of traffic.
148-Giving way when moving from one marked lane or line of traffic to another marked lane or line of traffic
(1) A driver on a multi-laned road who is moving from one marked lane(whether or not the lane is ending) to another marked lane must give way to any vehicle travelling in the same direction as the driver in the marked lane to which the driver is moving.

(offence provision)
Note 1 Marked Lane and multi-laned road are defined in the dictionary.
(aust road rules dictionary)
Note 2- For this rule, give way means the driver must slow down and, if necessary, stop to avoid a collision.
(2) A driver on a road with 2 or more lines of traffic travelling in the same direction as the driver, and who is moving from one line of traffic to another line of traffic, must give way to any other vehicle travelling in the same direction as the driver in the line of traffic to which the driver is moving.
(offence provision)
(3) Subrule (2) does not apply to a driver if the line of traffic in which the driver is driving is merging with the line of traffic to which the DRIVER IS MOVING. (such as if your lane is then blocked).
RULE 149 covers it more...
149 giving way when lines of traffic merge into a single line of traffic.

A driver in a line of traffic that is merging with one or more lines of traffic travelling in the same direction as the driver must give way to a vehicle in another line of traffic if any part of the vehicle is ahead of the driver's vehicle.
(offence provision)
Note 1- Drivers Vehicle is defined in the dictionary (aust road rules vers.)

Note 2- For this rule, give way means the driver must slow down and, if necessary, stop to avoid a collision.

SO
If there were to be a crash in pauls said situation, and if the kid had a good lawyer (driving a BMW one would have to think mum and dad have a bit of cash) and Paul has sped up to close the gap when the kid is facing a lane obstruction (yes he shouldn't have sped up but he did), you Paul would be toast, with a non-straight car, a bent ego, a bent license and a rather sad insurance rating because you decided to be the sheriff and make the law suit you. Which I am sure that you are not legislated to do.
Lengthy and long winded.......Yes, but so are the Australian Road Rules, which blah blah is every license holders responsibility to understand, and crafty lawyers duties to bend around the situation.

pauljh74 · 07-06-2007, 11:47 PM

removed

Deviateboy · 08-06-2007, 12:05 AM

At the end of the day saying to an officer of the law I closed up the gap, is going to put you in hot water.
I stand by my first post, back off and avoid the problem NO-one has absolute right of way, you are always at fault by just being on the road except in the event of a rear end collision, WHICH is 100% at fault for the driver hitting the VEHICLE IN FRONT.

bodes-sh · 08-06-2007, 12:13 AM

apparently some people here have no idea about what they should do on the road....yes the p plater was in the wrong, he has an obstruction in his lane, the only person's problem is, is his. But paul is also in the wrong by speeding up to close the gap, because in order for that to happen he would have had to go over the speed limit. he could obviously see what was going to happen, knew he had to change lanes after the parked car anyway and just chose to be a ********.

As for the other guy who was half way up the womans car and crashed into the parked car, that it totally your fault, if you want or need to change lanes then you need to make sure it's safe to do so, that doesn't include speeding up to get in front of the car next to you...

i'm not saying i haven't done anything like this before, i have, but when i do, i always indicate, and usually give the person behind me a wave of appreciation

Bill_R · 08-06-2007, 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deviateboy

Not so..
Australian Road Rules Part 11-Keeping left, overtaking and other driving rules.
Division 4- Driving in Marked lanes of traffic.
148-Giving way when moving from one marked lane or line of traffic to another marked lane or line of traffic
(1) A driver on a multi-laned road who is moving from one marked lane(whether or not the lane is ending) to another marked lane must give way to any vehicle travelling in the same direction as the driver in the marked lane to which the driver is moving.

(offence provision)
Note 1 Marked Lane and multi-laned road are defined in the dictionary.
(aust road rules dictionary)
Note 2- For this rule, give way means the driver must slow down and, if necessary, stop to avoid a collision.
(2) A driver on a road with 2 or more lines of traffic travelling in the same direction as the driver, and who is moving from one line of traffic to another line of traffic, must give way to any other vehicle travelling in the same direction as the driver in the line of traffic to which the driver is moving.
(offence provision)
(3) Subrule (2) does not apply to a driver if the line of traffic in which the driver is driving is merging with the line of traffic to which the DRIVER IS MOVING. (such as if your lane is then blocked).
RULE 149 covers it more...
149 giving way when lines of traffic merge into a single line of traffic.

A driver in a line of traffic that is merging with one or more lines of traffic travelling in the same direction as the driver must give way to a vehicle in another line of traffic if any part of the vehicle is ahead of the driver's vehicle.
(offence provision)
Note 1- Drivers Vehicle is defined in the dictionary (aust road rules vers.)

Note 2- For this rule, give way means the driver must slow down and, if necessary, stop to avoid a collision.

SO
If there were to be a crash in pauls said situation, and if the kid had a good lawyer (driving a BMW one would have to think mum and dad have a bit of cash) and Paul has sped up to close the gap when the kid is facing a lane obstruction (yes he shouldn't have sped up but he did), you Paul would be toast, with a non-straight car, a bent ego, a bent license and a rather sad insurance rating because you decided to be the sheriff and make the law suit you. Which I am sure that you are not legislated to do.
Lengthy and long winded.......Yes, but so are the Australian Road Rules, which blah blah is every license holders responsibility to understand, and crafty lawyers duties to bend around the situation.

um, you just verified what I said. Section 149 applies to *merging* lanes when there are *no* marked lines (148 covers merging when there are mark lines). This example is not merging lanes - it is full covered by section 148. The driver *crossing* the marked line needs to give way (as I said).
There are pictures you might understand better if you look at the latest copy of the Australian Road Rules ( http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/rulesregul...ds/pts1-21.pdf ).
Different States might implement the ARR differently.

Bill_R · 08-06-2007, 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bodes-sh

apparently some people here have no idea about what they should do on the road....yes the p plater was in the wrong, he has an obstruction in his lane, the only person's problem is, is his. But paul is also in the wrong by speeding up to close the gap, because in order for that to happen he would have had to go over the speed limit. he could obviously see what was going to happen, knew he had to change lanes after the parked car anyway and just chose to be a ********.

As for the other guy who was half way up the womans car and crashed into the parked car, that it totally your fault, if you want or need to change lanes then you need to make sure it's safe to do so, that doesn't include speeding up to get in front of the car next to you...

i'm not saying i haven't done anything like this before, i have, but when i do, i always indicate, and usually give the person behind me a wave of appreciation

Well said! Agreed.

pauljh74 · 08-06-2007, 01:20 AM

From http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/NR/rd.../0/part_11.pdf

148. Giving way when moving from one marked lane or line of traffic to another
marked lane or line of traffic
(1) A driver on a multi-lane road who is moving from one marked lane (whether
or not the lane is ending) to another marked lane must give way to any vehicle
travelling in the same direction as the driver in the marked lane to which the
driver is moving.

(2) A driver on a road with 2 or more lines of traffic travelling in the same direction
as the driver, and who is moving from one line of traffic to another line of
traffic, must give way to any vehicle travelling in the same direction as the
driver in the line of traffic to which the driver is moving.
Penalty: 3 penalty units.

(3) Subrule (2) does not apply to a driver if the line of traffic in which the driver is
driving is merging with the line of traffic to which the driver is moving.

Only subrule 1 applies as the road had marked lanes. When they talk about simply lines of traffic, there are no marked lanes.

BTW I deleted my previous post because I felt I may have jumped the gun. But my initial belief your claims regarding the laws were wrong appears to be upheld.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deviateboy

you are always at fault by just being on the road except in the event of a rear end collision, WHICH is 100% at fault for the driver hitting the VEHICLE IN FRONT.

That first part doesn't even make sense. "You are at fault by just being on the road". Also with a rear end collision, if someone cuts you off and immediately jumps on the brakes, and a collision occurred, they would be at fault because their actions would be unsafe and the main cause for the accident. The driver in front would be guilty of not following rule 148, subrule 1 for starters. I'm sure some more serious charges would be laid as well

Even if I maintained my speed - there still would have been no safe gap available for the other driver. He would have got in front and had a car 3 metres from his front bumper and 3 metres from his rear bumper. Real safe. Yes I would have eased up over the next few seconds and not maintained a 3 metre gap to the car in front.
If my actions had achieved the desired effect, the BMW driver would have had to slow down/stop and find a SAFE gap to move into and I'd have 10 metres+ in front of me. Which of those scenarios is safer?

If I slowed down, the driver would have moved in front and thought, "Well, it worked this time, so I'll do it again tomorrow." Maybe the next time he'll have to suddenly brake hard - and with that small gap to the car in front, he won't stop in time. That and the car behind him won't stop in time either.

I stand by my action of not letting the other car in - well, not at first because this driver clearly has no care for his safety or mine as he was willing to run into me to force his way in it seems.

sexr6tasy · 08-06-2007, 06:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pauljh74

I stand by my action of not letting the other car in - well, not at first because this driver clearly has no care for his safety or mine as he was willing to run into me to force his way in it seems.

So the next time your stubborn and somebody does run into you potential killing you and other people on the road will that just be a good lesson taught to these dangerous ********* on the road? you need help my friend.

Rodp · 08-06-2007, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pauljh74

Even if I maintained my speed - there still would have been no safe gap available for the other driver. He would have got in front and had a car 3 metres from his front bumper and 3 metres from his rear bumper. Real safe. Yes I would have eased up over the next few seconds and not maintained a 3 metre gap to the car in front.

Then you're travelling way too close to the car infront of you as well!!

Tuddy200 · 08-06-2007, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodp

Then you're travelling way too close to the car infront of you as well!!

Nope Incorrect. Whats an average car length? 3 Meters? So the 3 (Gap1) + 3 (Gap2) and the +3 (Car) would have meant Paul had a 9 Meter gap for safety which was infringed upon by another driver.

With what your all saying, is there was a safety concern either way, a) because there was no safety gap, b) because the other driver well over the speed limit, c) they were closing into an intersection and d) parked car.

Because of this other driver driver, all the car in front had to do was slam their brakes on for a kid or something, and all three would have ploughed into each other possibly killing the kid crossing the road. Like the ad in one of the other topics.

P Platers may not think of that, even experienced drivers, so maybe there is a good reason to block them out, and maybe it did cause the sitiuation to be unsafe for th P Plater and parked car, but it wasn't as unsafe as squeezing into a gap that wasn't for him.

If it was the choice between my parked car and my kid walking across the road, I'd rather the P Plater hit my car and the first car and Paul being able to stop without hitting my kid because that gap was maintained.

Most P Platers and even "so-called" experienced drivers even don't understand that.

Unco · 08-06-2007, 12:36 PM

this is so boring. everyone's saying the same thing over and over yet there's no getting through to you both.

do whatever you want on the roads, just don't come here crying and expecting sympathy for something 99% of forum readers frown upon.

Tuddy200 · 08-06-2007, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unco

this is so boring. everyone's saying the same thing over and over yet there's no getting through to you both.

do whatever you want on the roads, just don't come here crying and expecting sympathy for something 99% of forum readers frown upon.

Its an opinion I have on the sitiuation. You have yours. I'm happy if the topic is locked, i'm not losing sleep over this. It's a debate, although I wish people could get over the personal attacks and attack the statments. I thought these forums had more going for it then stupid remarks.

You say 99%, I'd say less. It's all an opinion. Let's move along and find something we all have the same opinion on, that sounds exciting.

Unco · 08-06-2007, 01:33 PM

i'd say 99%. come back when you've done a few more hundred thousand kilomteres of driving on our roads.

in the meantime, keep flashing your lights and cutting people off to teach bad drivers a lesson, go on, you show them mate, show them how it's done. GO GET 'EM, TIGER!!!

*rolls eyes*

LOL

sexr6tasy · 08-06-2007, 03:08 PM

Haha yeh unco agreed its time to put this thread to rest

Rodp · 08-06-2007, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G.J.Tuddy

Nope Incorrect. Whats an average car length? 3 Meters? So the 3 (Gap1) + 3 (Gap2) and the +3 (Car) would have meant Paul had a 9 Meter gap for safety which was infringed upon by another driver.

9 meters is safe?!

Minimum 3 second gap. Which is roughly 17 meters in a 60 zone at *a minimum*.

So, Nope Incorrect.

MeLLy · 08-06-2007, 04:18 PM

Hmmmm can this thing end already?

Unco · 08-06-2007, 04:52 PM

yeah, let's end it before i start posting more impressive images.

feebs · 08-06-2007, 05:15 PM

mmmmm.. I saw the thread title and thought someone had finally spotted me!!

Tuddy200 · 08-06-2007, 06:36 PM

Go tell the people who said they flash there lights to warn of cops/cameras to stop flshing them as well. And I can't teach myself a lesson, I'm a bad driver, I know it, but there are some things that come as common sense. (Not a comment about who is right o wrong by the way, just a general statment)

Go Get 'em Tiger? Please, step out of my comfort zone! Now we can end it.

Unco · 08-06-2007, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G.J.Tuddy

Go tell the people who said they flash there lights to warn of cops/cameras to stop flshing them as well. And I can't teach myself a lesson, I'm a bad driver, I know it, but there are some things that come as common sense. (Not a comment about who is right o wrong by the way, just a general statment)

Go Get 'em Tiger? Please, step out of my comfort zone! Now we can end it.

pauljh74 · 08-06-2007, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodp

Then you're travelling way too close to the car infront of you as well!!

I had at least 10 metres to the car in front and that's too close? I agree it shouldn't be less. But you're criticising me for not letting someone cut that gap to 1/3 or less?

I too had options as to how to deal with the situation and did yield eventually because the other driver did the wrong thing. The speed differential between the cars wasn't much and a stab of the brake avoided a collision. Something that I should not have had to do, but ultimately did. His behaviour was rude, aggressive, dangerous and illegal. I have voiced my opinion and by most of the people on here criticising me for not wanting to be cut off and also apparently claiming that the onus is on me to let him in in this situation basically tells me that they condone his sort of behaviour, because their opinion is to not even try and discourage that behaviour, thus allowing it to continue and increase.

In past years, I have noticed people may have done the wrong thing and their reaction to the offended driver was either an apology gesture or no response. Now you get abused back when the other driver wrongs you. I don't appreciate that.

As a P plater - I would not have cut off a driver in this way, nor abused them for my mistake. It's not a lack of experience issue.

Flouro_Joe · 08-06-2007, 11:36 PM

Give up Paul

pauljh74 · 08-06-2007, 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TonkoXR8

i also hope i am never on the same road at the same time as yourself or the beemer driver.

Why? Do you deliberately cut people off?

MeLLy · 09-06-2007, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pauljh74

Why? Do you deliberately cut people off?

HAHAHA wow that comment improved your maturity level

no because ur driving dangerously and arogently and he doesnt wanna be caught in between you and any other idiot driver!

simple, just let it go

xbgs351 · 09-06-2007, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unco

HA HA HA - I nearly got kicked off the forum when I posted that picture a year or so ago.

Chilla · 09-06-2007, 07:14 PM

The americans once put out a short movie that they showed to all learner drivers in schools, and the armed services. It was called 'Time and Space'. It showed similar circumstances to that which Paul found himself in, and several other scenarios. One scene has stuck in my mind, where an impatient / ignorant driver was swapping lanes, cutting off drivers, to try and make up a few minutes of 'Time'. In doing so he placed himself into a 'Space' that, had he been driving responsibly, he would NOT have filled.
This 'Space' was the one that was taken out by a similar driver running a red light at an intersection, again trying to save 'Time'. A simulated clock in the corner of the screen constantly displayed the 'Time' that the first driver was saving. RE-running the movie with everyone driving courtesly etc, the clock showed that both drivers involved would not have filled the 'Space' they were in when the crash occurred.
There is an old saying of my fathers that comes to mind also, when any impatient sod would overtake dangerously he would say " rush on smart **** hell aint half full yet" and aint that the truth?
I've held my licence now for 49 years and have seen it all. Slow down lads, lifes too precious to waste trying to make up a few lost seconds.

XD/F Falc man · 09-06-2007, 09:51 PM

You should have ripped his head off and shirt down his neck then gone for lunch would have made you feel better.

:

4DGASM · 09-06-2007, 10:41 PM

unfortunatly p platers dont seem to have the paitence that they did 10 yrs ago and with the power of the cars they can get in and drive these days is unbeleivable thats why they now have 1 of the highest death rates of all drivers DONT GET ME WRONG though not all p platers are the same they just need to slow down

Steffo · 10-06-2007, 01:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4DGASM

unfortunatly p platers dont seem to have the paitence that they did 10 yrs ago and with the power of the cars they can get in and drive these days is unbeleivable thats why they now have 1 of the highest death rates of all drivers DONT GET ME WRONG though not all p platers are the same they just need to slow down

Statistically they actually have a lower fatality rate then you'd think. As with all good stories, its over inflated by the media.

pauljh74 · 10-06-2007, 01:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MeLLy

HAHAHA wow that comment improved your maturity level

no because ur driving dangerously and arogently and he doesnt wanna be caught in between you and any other idiot driver!

simple, just let it go

I didn't cut anybody off and had right of way. Tell me what laws I broke that puts me in the wrong. The answer - none. That's what it comes down to. That's why I object to being criticised. Another person's comment that I must have been speeding is highly presumptuous. I was following another car and was ultimately restricted by their speed. If there was a crash it would have been caused by the other driver driving into me, not the other way around. The fact I had to take action to avoid the other car clearly shows I was not the one driving dangerously.