Decision on Future Falcon Wagon coming soon.

[Ghiadude]

why dont we lower the territory and put a load carrying **** under it????

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by Ghiadude

why dont we lower the territory and put a load carrying **** under it????

Kind of defeats te purpose of it doesnt it...?
One of its strengths is its ride height.

[snappy]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Kind of defeats te purpose of it doesnt it...?
One of its strengths is its ride height.

Or one of it weaknesses , We have to face facts the territory is not a wagon the storage is just not there

[Falc'man]

Originally Posted by Gobes32

Ford in the last three years has become a zero risk company. i.e, If we can't be certain it will sell, we won't build it. I think this stems from the amount of financial manure that Holden found themselves in by building everything that everybody asked for. They found out the hard way that interest in a prototype does not necessarily equate to actual sales........

Holden are in the poo? No such thing as long as they have Centrelink backing them. As long as the government remain "worried and concerned" about the loss of jobs, Holden will always remain far from resourceful knowing all too well they have a great sponsor in the governmint. Refer to GM.
Whatever the outcome of both, I'll always know it was never an even playing field.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Kind of defeats te purpose of it doesnt it...?
One of its strengths is its ride height.

I think there would be a market for a lowered Terri, if it was an option instead of the standard ride height. I personally would look at one.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by snappy84

Or one of it weaknesses , We have to face facts the territory is not a wagon the storage is just not there

Territory is not a wagon, its never tried to be a wagon, its a SUV... Ford already have a Wagon, Holden dont, they have a SUV (captiva) and Commodore Hatch (sedan based SUV)... but no wagon....
The full size wagon market is shrinking... Ford cater to it, holden dont.

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Territory is not a wagon, its never tried to be a wagon, its a SUV...

That's just semantics, it has a station wagon body. It's a road (not off-road) vehicle. The Range Rover (which started the whole silly "SUV" thing) was classed and marketed as a station wagon for many years. The registration certificates for my Range Rover and my Territory class them as station wagons. I use (used in the case of the RR which I no longer own) both as station wagons. If it looks like a station wagon it is a station wagon.

The Territory is a station wagon. Ford has two station wagons, the Falcon and the Territory. :

(sorry is that three including the Mondeo, I don't know much about Mondeos?)

[FPV GTHO]

Originally Posted by vztrt

I think there would be a market for a lowered Terri, if it was an option instead of the standard ride height. I personally would look at one.

I think the wheels tucked that far up into the guards would look pretty . Maybe a factory option would get interest, but theres not too many people lowering Territory's to Falcon height or thereabouts.

[Windsor220]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Territory is not a wagon, its never tried to be a wagon, its a SUV... Ford already have a Wagon, Holden dont, they have a SUV (captiva) and Commodore Hatch (sedan based SUV)... but no wagon....
The full size wagon market is shrinking... Ford cater to it, holden dont.

When Territory was released/developed, wasnt it supposed to be a cross between wagon, SUV and people mover?

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by FPV GTHO

I think the wheels tucked that far up into the guards would look pretty . Maybe a factory option would get interest, but theres not too many people lowering Territory's to Falcon height or thereabouts.

Yeah you see a few, but not a huge amount. But Subie showed that there was a market. But if there was a lowered terri with warranty it might get a few extra bites. It wouldn't happen as it would be to big of a risk to spend the R&D on doing this.

[FPV GTHO]

Originally Posted by Windsor220

When Territory was released/developed, wasnt it supposed to be a cross between wagon, SUV and people mover?

Thats not something specific to Territory but to crossovers in general.

[FPV GTHO]

Originally Posted by vztrt

Yeah you see a few, but not a huge amount. But Subie showed that there was a market. But if there was a lowered terri with warranty it might get a few extra bites. It wouldn't happen as it would be to big of a risk to spend the R&D on doing this.

I think Subaru attract alot different crowd though, lending to more people trying to lower cars like the Forrester.

[prydey]

FTG have a lowered terri with a boss in it i think. to me it just looks wrong with a lowered ride height. throws all the proportions way out.

if terri had a cheaper running cost (lpg or turbo diesel) i may consider it but until it does, my only option is the falcon wagon. i've had ef xr6, el futura, ba futura and now bf2 xt. most i've owned one for is 3 years. looks like my next car will have to be a sedan as i won't be switching brands. i'm ford to the core, regardless of model line up.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by prydey

FTG have a lowered terri with a boss in it i think. to me it just looks wrong with a lowered ride height. throws all the proportions way out.

if terri had a cheaper running cost (lpg or turbo diesel) i may consider it but until it does, my only option is the falcon wagon. i've had ef xr6, el futura, ba futura and now bf2 xt. most i've owned one for is 3 years. looks like my next car will have to be a sedan as i won't be switching brands. i'm ford to the core, regardless of model line up.

I agree.. its personal taste but from a sound design and aesthetic point of view the Territory's proportions look best when at the std ride height.

Its also a nicer vehicle to drive and use with the higher viewing/riding position.

[makattkd]

Well as a recent new car buyer, if there was an option there for a FG Wagon along with IRS and XR specifications I would have been sold.

I looked long and hard a the Holden Sportswagon, but not being a holden fan, not liking the plastic interior, no option of a manual V6 and the fairly small boot space quickly ruled it out.

I know my father would also be lined up down at the local Ford dealership if they released a proper FG wagon, as would several other people I know. We don't want a big territory or a fwd modeo.. we want a proper FALCON!

I'd love to hear from any mondeo wagon owners that can tow a trailer full of gravel or a tandem car trailer. Load the boot to to roof lining with crap and not even notice it? I doubt it, and I doubt the front wheels would still be touching the ground.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by makattkd

I'd love to hear from any mondeo wagon owners that can tow a trailer full of gravel or a tandem car trailer. Load the boot to to roof lining with crap and not even notice it? I doubt it, and I doubt the front wheels would still be touching the ground.

i think you underetimate the ability of engineers these days.

[XR6_190]

I could be very wrong here, but I thought the main selling point for the Falcon Wagon as far as the fleets are concerned, is that it is low enough that you can put decent roof racks on it, and fully laden it can still go into just about any multi-story car park. Wheras a van or SUV will not have the height clearance needed. If this is the case, even if lowered, the Territory will still be too tall due to the shape of it's body, not the suspension. Again I could be way off here.

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by makattkd

Well as a recent new car buyer, if there was an option there for a FG Wagon along with IRS and XR specifications I would have been sold.

I looked long and hard a the Holden Sportswagon, but not being a holden fan, not liking the plastic interior, no option of a manual V6 and the fairly small boot space quickly ruled it out.

I know my father would also be lined up down at the local Ford dealership if they released a proper FG wagon, as would several other people I know. We don't want a big territory or a fwd modeo.. we want a proper FALCON!

I'd love to hear from any mondeo wagon owners that can tow a trailer full of gravel or a tandem car trailer. Load the boot to to roof lining with crap and not even notice it? I doubt it, and I doubt the front wheels would still be touching the ground.

Spot on, I would have a XR6 wagon with auto though and with heavy duty tow pack, im actually not too fussed on the IRS as the leaf springs are good for towing (we tow a horse once a month) and the ute seems to be fine with them. I wont even consider a Mondeo. I have booked a testdrive of a SV6 Sportwagon for Thursday night, so we'l see how it goes. Much prefer the Fords though, the FG is a much beter car than the VE.

After 20 years of new Fords, first time I will test drive a new Holden eeewww!

[XR6_190]

Originally Posted by makattkd

Well as a recent new car buyer, if there was an option there for a FG Wagon along with IRS and XR specifications I would have been sold.

This is never going to happen. The R+D costs are not worth it. Holden have not gained any sales by going down this route, and Holden would be loosing a lot of dollars for going this way, and Ford can see that. If the VE Sportswagon was more of a success, than maybe we could have looked forward to seeing an FG rival, but it isn't, so we won't.

[naddis01]

Originally Posted by prydey

when the ve wagon was released, everyone raved on about how well it sells and how silly ford is for not getting in on the action. the commodore sales (which include wagon) did not go up, which shows that those buying wagons were just eating into the sedan sales. ford gloated recently about the falcon sedan outselling the commodore sedan. why do you think that is? ve wagon is stealing sales.

I just thought I would include this graphic taken from the technical resources section. To me it appears that the Sportwagon has increased the commodore sales by around 800-1000 vehicles per month. The rate of decline in Commodore sales is still apparent, however the number of sales is on a higher plane since the introduction of the Sportwagon.

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by naddis01

I just thought I would include this graphic taken from the technical resources section. To me it appears that the Sportwagon has increased the commodore sales by around 800-1000 vehicles per month. The rate of decline in Commodore sales is still apparent, however the number of sales is on a higher plane since the introduction of the Sportwagon.

Very interesting Naddis01, it seems to confirm my own observations (which obviously would be a limited sample size).

Over the last year or so I have seen three parents at my sons school who have bought Holden Sportwagons. One replaced a Subaru Outback, one replaced a Nissan Patrol and another replaced a Mazda 3.
In those cases I believe they would have been incremental sales to Holden (im only guessing as they may have still bought a Commodore sedan if the wagon didnt exist).

And even in my case I am considering a Holden for the first time due only to a wagon being available.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by naddis01

I just thought I would include this graphic taken from the technical resources section. To me it appears that the Sportwagon has increased the commodore sales by around 800-1000 vehicles per month. The rate of decline in Commodore sales is still apparent, however the number of sales is on a higher plane since the introduction of the Sportwagon.

That doesnt look right to me, is that a factually calculated "mean" average line or your "spin" on it?
The Commodore to Falcon split still looks about constant..
We know for a fact that since the Commodore hatch was released the sedan sales have dropped significantly comparred to Falcon sedan sales.

[naddis01]

They are just treandlines that I put in. How would you put them in? The dotted one that I have there would be if all things stayed the same and the Sportwagon wasnt released, which of course didnt happen so is just theory.

If Falcon sales are reasonably stable, and sportwagon sales are reasonably stable then Commodore sedan sales will be decreasing if total Commodore (sedan and wagon) are decling bringing the gap between the 2 sedans closer.

[cosmo20btt]

I Still think all ford have to do is update the wagon again it is just that simple, maybe just an FG xr6 styled nose on it & maybe control blade rear end for an up speck model with turbo & xt model with leaf spring rear end for fleets. Can't be that hard they did it in the AU days (in sedans), Just think of the ads on telly showing a commodore hatch v8 be swallowed by a Turbo wagon. It would be sensational.

[naddis01]

I should add that the dotted line is just theory as I dont have a plot of the Commodore sedan sales. You also have to remember the Falcon figures there include the BF3 wagon.

Just looking at Oct 09 the dotted line isn't too far off the mark when you minus the 381 Falcon wagon sales.

Another point to consider is the Commodore sedan sales will flatten out much the same as the Falcon sales have in the past year or 2 (Falcon actually appears to have a increasing trend this year). Otherwise there will be no sedan sales in around 3 years time if that trend continued, which of course wont happen.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by naddis01

I just thought I would include this graphic taken from the technical resources section. To me it appears that the Sportwagon has increased the commodore sales by around 800-1000 vehicles per month. The rate of decline in Commodore sales is still apparent, however the number of sales is on a higher plane since the introduction of the Sportwagon.

the lines that you have added in support your theory because you put them there. where you have the second line that you claim is the release of the sportwagon, you will notice that the whole industry improved. if the wagon is the reason for the rise in commodore sales, why the rise in falcon?

if there was no wagon, do you really think the falcon would have been close to outselling the sedan?

there is no way that the wagon has boosted commodore sales by 800 - 1000 each month. the monthly sales figures tell a different story. commodore numbers remain consitant with the industry rising and falling regardless of wagon or no wagon.

[boris]

Originally Posted by cosmo20btt

I Still think all ford have to do is update the wagon again it is just that simple, maybe just an FG xr6 styled nose on it & maybe control blade rear end for an up speck model with turbo & xt model with leaf spring rear end for fleets. Can't be that hard they did it in the AU days (in sedans), Just think of the ads on telly showing a commodore hatch v8 be swallowed by a Turbo wagon. It would be sensational.

I agree, just keep her going, just like they did with the falcon ute in the early 90's. Keep the fleets happy, update powertrain etc. If the market dictates, eventually when cash isn't so tight, do a whole new upgrade.

[Chopped]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

There are a plethura of SUV's now that cater to what was the "family wagon" market just far too well, a "sexy wagon" just wont cut it in that company. ......

True 5 years ago.

Look at what all the Euro brands are re-focusing on - wagons/estates - the SUV market is starting to level out.

http://pictures.topspeed.com/IMG/cro...ept_460x0w.jpg

http://www.autoevolution.com/images/...ils-4136_1.JPG

http://www.techfresh.net/wp-content/...portlounge.jpg

Even the yanks >
http://www.dieselstation.com/pics/ca...r-pictures.jpg

An FG wagon with the clever interior/storage of the Territory would be a winner.

Territory sales figures are declining slowly but still declining.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Chopped

True 5 years ago.

Look at what all the Euro brands are re-focusing on - wagons/estates - the SUV market is starting to level out.

http://pictures.topspeed.com/IMG/cro...ept_460x0w.jpg

http://www.autoevolution.com/images/...ils-4136_1.JPG

http://www.techfresh.net/wp-content/...portlounge.jpg

Even the yanks >
http://www.dieselstation.com/pics/ca...r-pictures.jpg

An FG wagon with the clever interior/storage of the Territory would be a winner.

Territory sales figures are declining slowly but still declining.

bmw, citroen and cadillac all look like suv's to me. def not typical wagon mould like the merc.

territory sales actually picked up a bit since the facelift.

[Chopped]

!! SUV's generally have a high ride height.

http://jacksonville.com/lifestyles/2...ing_a_comeback

http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?se...ips&id=7116072

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29516880/ns/business-autos/