Future of Ford and Holden Could be Revealed in Detroit this week

[Chilliman]

At the end of the day, ironically if Ford goes FWD/AWD on a global platform for Falcon, Holden could well end up having Commodore on an orphan Zeta platform, with the next make-over/upgrade being a rework of the current Zeta. Zeta was supposed to be GM's GRWD but RWD Impala was canned, the Pontiac exports (GTO & G8) canned after not meeting targets. The Police export contract is a long shot - they need strong police sales to build a case for civilian model (under the chevy badge) exports - ironically if police sales are too good, they may just end up making them in the St Thomas plant where the Camaro is currently assembled; though by 2013 Camaro is slated to move onto the smaller Alpha platform leaving Commodore as the sole Zeta car!

[Chilliman]

An Article from Road& Track, the last paragraph (bolded) is very interesting:

Spied! The 2013 Ford Fusion and Lincoln MKZ - Spy Shots
Our first glimpse at Ford’s next bid for global (platform) domination.

By Nick Kurczewski / Photos copyright Brenda Priddy & Company

September 8, 2010
Slideshow >>
Best Spy Shots >>

What is a European-spec Ford Mondeo sedan doing on the streets of Detroit? Our spy photographers were wondering exactly the same thing—especially when they spotted a dozen or more of them roaming the Motor City.

Don’t be fooled by appearances, because what you’re looking at in these spy images is a sneak peek at the next generation Ford Fusion and Lincoln MKZ midsize sedans. Both will use the new “CD4” platform, a chassis that looks set to become the backbone of Ford’s global lineup of vehicles. The Euro-look of these test mules is nothing but a clever disguise.

The Fusion, MKZ and Mondeo will be the first to share this chassis. Powertrains are rumored to consist of 1.6-liter and 2.0-liter inline-4 engines, both featuring Ford’s EcoBoost turbocharging system. A hybrid is also a certainty, although it’s too early to know if Ford will stick with the 2.5-liter Duratec 4-cylinder and nickel-metal hydride batteries of the current model. We think this is highly unlikely, given that the new Fusion’s engines are being downsized.

The styling of the next-generation Fusion is said to borrow heavily from the new Focus and the Taurus sedan. This means a more dynamic look—or “Kinetic” to use Ford’s lingo—with a bold and elegant front end (like that of the Focus) mixed with the solid-looking profile and rear-end treatment found on the Taurus. The Fusion’s current chrome grille is also likely to be significantly revised—a Ford designer recently told us the grille with three chrome bars had served the company well, but it’s time for a change.

Look for the next Fusion and MKZ sedans to arrive in early 2012, for the 2013 model year. Soon thereafter, the Ford Edge and Lincoln MKX crossover vehicles will jump to the CD4 platform, followed by the Taurus, MKS and several other Ford products around the world.

[janddbone]

As I said before surely Ford can have both front, and rear wheel drive platforms.

If you take into account,
Falcon
Territory
Mustang
RWD Yank Ford and Lincoln

Include utes, wagons and others ... I4 V6 and V8. The tech that could be common would be mind blowing for us Aussies...

With all those options on a common platform there is no way it could not make financial sense...

You would be looking at around 300,000 sales per year easy....

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Chilliman

An Article from Road& Track, the last paragraph (bolded) is very interesting:

Spied! The 2013 Ford Fusion and Lincoln MKZ - Spy Shots
Our first glimpse at Ford’s next bid for global (platform) domination.

By Nick Kurczewski / Photos copyright Brenda Priddy & Company

September 8, 2010
Slideshow >>
Best Spy Shots >>

What is a European-spec Ford Mondeo sedan doing on the streets of Detroit? Our spy photographers were wondering exactly the same thing—especially when they spotted a dozen or more of them roaming the Motor City.

Here's the link to those pics.

IMO, this is a HVAC Mule using the existing Mondeo body and the new front.
You won't see the new body until late this year or early next year.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by chevypower

Ohhh, I see... Don't worry, the cars they produce today are exactly the same

Yes that's what I assumed

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Agree on the tech and feature content. Hopefully some of the stuff slated originally for the FG but cut due to cost reasons will make it to FGII (FH?)

Do you know what some of the original stuff you mentioned was?

Just curious.

Dan

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by DanielXR8

Do you know what some of the original stuff you mentioned was?

Just curious.

Dan

That special petrol filler from the Mondeo?

[Road_Warrior]

Yeah and xenons and LED's I think but I could be wrong

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Yeah and xenons and LED's I think but I could be wrong

It would be interesting to study the door handles on the Territory Titanium spy pics to see if Keyless Entry is coming.

[vztrt]

http://theage.drive.com.au/motor-new...114-19quo.html

Ford courts buyer revolt
Bruce Newtown, Richard Blackburn
January 15, 2011

Ford is facing a backlash over plans to abandon the traditional rear-wheel-drive layout of its locally built Falcon, with a Drive net poll suggesting buyers won't warm to a Falcon driven solely through the front wheels.

Ford is facing a backlash over plans to abandon the traditional rear-wheel-drive layout of its locally built Falcon, with a Drive net poll suggesting buyers won't warm to a Falcon driven solely through the front wheels.

A poll of almost 9000 readers revealed only 2 per cent would favour a front-drive Falcon over a rear-drive version.

In contrast, 48 per cent preferred the current set-up and 30 per cent wanted all-wheel-drive. The other 20 per cent ticked "don't care".
Advertisement: Story continues below

The news comes after Ford Motor Company's global design chief, J. Mays, all but confirmed the Falcon would adopt the same underpinnings as the US-made Ford Taurus, which has front- and all-wheel-drive versions.

"I wouldn't be holding my breath for a rear-wheel-drive Falcon," Mays says. "I think the chances are we will be all-wheel-drive."

He also hints that cheaper Falcons could be offered with front-wheel-drive and says a decision will be made within six months.

Under the company's "One Ford" plan, it is moving towards developing a single global platform for all its vehicles. That leaves the future of the Australian-built Falcon, Territory and Falcon ute under a cloud, as they are made almost exclusively for the domestic market.

The decision appears to threaten the Broadmeadows production facility but a Ford Australia spokesman says the company's future looks positive.

Rear-wheel-drive cars are generally perceived as dynamically superior to front-drive, particularly for towing and performance models, though many of the world's best performance cars are all-wheel-drive.

[jpd80]

A poll of almost 9000 readers revealed only 2 per cent would favour a front-drive Falcon over a rear-drive version.

In contrast, 48 per cent preferred the current set-up and 30 per cent wanted all-wheel-drive. The other 20 per cent ticked "don't care".

A totally un-scientific poll by Drive designed to elicit the most negative outcome possible.

There is no guarantee that any of the 9000 respondents are new Falcon buyers or even want to be.

[Road_Warrior]

Drive = poo.

They're just trying to keep their little "inside scoop" of a story alive in the face of a massive lack of reader interest due to the east coast floods.

[baker1]

i'd rather a commodore than an fwd or awd falcon

[bobthebilda]

Originally Posted by jpd80

A totally un-scientific poll by Drive designed to elicit the most negative outcome possible.

There is no guarantee that any of the 9000 respondents are new Falcon buyers or even want to be.

Yeah but you do have to look at the obstacles of doing a fairly decent poll on Falcon buyers. After all, to get the opinions of 9000 Falcon buyers these days, the poll is going to have to run for four and a half months

[Nikked]

I love the tin hat theories that a major media company's only goal is to destroy an aussie icon.

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by baker1

i'd rather a commodore than an fwd or awd falcon

Cool. while you're out driving your rattley tin overhead can, we'll be waving by in our smooth running ecoboost AWD falcons.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

Yeah but you do have to look at the obstacles of doing a fairly decent poll on Falcon buyers. After all, to get the opinions of 9000 Falcon buyers these days, the poll is going to have to run for four and a half months

Yeah but you also have to look at the validity of that poll, what's the good of all those
people's opinions if none are really seriously interested in buying a new Falcon anyway?

Absolutely zilch, not worth a grain of salt.

The best way to do this is by survey of actual Falcon buyers over the last two years,
why not survey all of them and ask those questions and see what comes back.

If that kind of survey was conducted, I bet we would find the key criteria in this order:
1) Space of the current Falcon
2) Ease of performance as per the current I-6
3) good fuel economy relative to the size and weight of the car
4) Able to handle on country roads and soak up pot holes with ease.
5) able to tow a reasonably loaded trailer.

As for V8 and I-6 Turbo models, I'm betting they'd be about 10% of respondents.

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Yeah but you also have to look at the validity of that poll, what's the good of all those
people's opinions if none are really seriously interested in buying a new Falcon anyway?

Absolutely zilch, not worth a grain of salt.

The best way to do this is by survey of actual Falcon buyers over the last two years,
why not survey all of them and ask those questions and see what comes back.

If that kind of survey was conducted, I bet we would find the key criteria in this order:
1) Space of the current Falcon
2) Ease of performance as per the current I-6
3) good fuel economy relative to the size and weight of the car
4) Able to handle on country roads and soak up pot holes with ease.
5) able to tow a reasonably loaded trailer.

As for V8 and I-6 Turbo models, I'm betting they'd be about 10% of respondents.

Biggest buyers of Falcons are rental companies and fleets, they will appreciate the lower running and purchase costs of the CamryFalcon.

[1TUFFUTE]

i may have missed some of this thread but personally would welcome an awd falcon as long as the fwd version has a non falcon badge as hinted somewhere else. Oh and those sick eco boost engines are sweet.

[FPV GTHO]

Some thoughts..

Clearly Falcons future revolves heavily around CD4, as that will be the true global large car platform, regardless of any potential partnering between Taurus, Falcon or Mustang.

With that said, CD4 will underpin the next Mondeo. Unless something drastically changes, i cant see Ford pulling Mondeo from the market again and putting Falcon badges on something similar. The current EUCD Mondeo is a similar length to E8 Falcon, but narrower. The current CD3 Fusion has similar interior space to E8 Falcon as well, so CD4 is unlikely to be smaller in either dimension.

Taurus will likely move off D3 onto a variant of CD4, but the modifications are yet to be known. Ford US will want something to differentiate Fusion and Taurus so the latter taking a longer wheelbase is a likely option. Selling both the Mondeo and Taurus locally would emulate the previous Falcon/Fairlane lineup, but what to call the Taurus? Alot of people are assuming now it'll probably be Falcon if Falcon isnt a large RWD anymore. The Taurus nameplate has baggage as well.

Mustang will be keeping its roots, but not built off something else's platform like the Camaro and Challenger. D2C could live on with new suspension, most likely getting an IRS that could either be a ground up design or a touched up Falcon rear end. The Control Blade concept is Ford Global 101, so i cant see that changing whatever the decision. Front end may stay McPherson strut or could take Falcon's Virtual Pivot setup with any necessary modifications.

So what of Falcon? All that we truly know, is we will never design and develop it again for ourselves. So what do we get? The Taurus architecture modified to suit our needs? I still see too many assurances Falcon will remain RWD. Ford state they have no intentions at the moment for RWD Lincolns, but other rumours persist Lincoln may at least pick up a rebodied Mustang. So i take Fords word on RWD and Lincoln with a grain of salt. Ford and others around Ford have claimed they dont just want to concentrate their platforms on standardised floorpans and such, but also develop common front/rear modules, electrical systems, hydraulic systems etc. Ive heard the suggestion that the next Falcon will be a stretched Mustang, but what about another option, would CD4 with Mustang front/rear modules be feasible?

[irlewy86]

Originally Posted by Brazen

Biggest buyers of Falcons are rental companies and fleets, they will appreciate the lower running and purchase costs of the CamryFalcon.

I doubt there is a business case for FWD/AWD mid-large car in Australia from Ford. Toyota makes it work with a massive export market and complete market dominance. Ford wouldn't enjoy those lofty highs on the sales charts (does the Aurion even crack the top ten anymore?)

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by irlewy86

I doubt there is a business case for FWD/AWD mid-large car in Australia from Ford. Toyota makes it work with a massive export market and complete market dominance. Ford wouldn't enjoy those lofty highs on the sales charts (does the Aurion even crack the top ten anymore?)

Pretty sure that sales of Falcon/Mondeo equals or exceeds Camry/Aurion.

No, where Toyota has superiority over Ford and Holden is by being strong across a lot of sectors,
Yaris, Corolla, Camry, Hilux, Prado, RAV4, Kluger, Landcruiser, Tarago, Hiace

So the key point is that Ford has to do better in all categories other than Falcon.

Falcon is not the problem, it's all the other under performing vehicles in Ford's line up.

[Bud Bud]

Originally Posted by jpd80

The best way to do this is by survey of actual Falcon buyers over the last two years,
why not survey all of them and ask those questions and see what comes back.

Because isn’t that the problem in the first place? There just are not enough of them any more.

Originally Posted by jpd80

1) Space of the current Falcon
2) Ease of performance as per the current I-6
3) good fuel economy relative to the size and weight of the car
4) Able to handle on country roads and soak up pot holes with ease.
5) able to tow a reasonably loaded trailer.

I have not seen these valid points in car advertising since the late 80's

Bud Bud

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by Bud Bud

I have not seen these valid points in car advertising since the late 80's

Bud Bud

I have been one of the fiercest critics of Fords advertising of the Falcon. Ford need to spell out these attributes that JDP80 listed. I have young women in my equestrian club who didnt know that Falcons can tow horse floats, one of them thought a 2.4litre Rav4 would have a higher tow rating.

If Ford thinks that the public know all the great aspects of a large Australian car, they are wrong. The public needs to be re-educated on the Falcon, Holden are just as guilty of this as well. But I guess this is for another topic.

[bobthebilda]

Originally Posted by jpd80

So the key point is that Ford has to do better in all categories other than Falcon.

Falcon is not the problem, it's all the other under performing vehicles in Ford's line up.

I think, that whilst the Falcon is the largest selling Ford car in Australia, it is also the problem. Every month, we are bombarded with articles about the poor sales performance of the Falcon. It is this that gets stored at the back of everyones mind. If you want to go out and buy a Fiesta or Focus two days after you read an article on the poor sales of falcon, you dont associate the poor sales with the Falcon, they associate it broadly across the Ford range. People associate poor sales with generic issues with the car, and then from the car, it seeps out onto the brand. After all, we are taught to believe that good things at the right price will always sell well. If something doesnt sell well, then there must be something wrong.

The true car enthusiast these days are slowly decreasing in numbers. Most of the type of buyers for Fords cars in the more popular segments (light, small), wouldnt know a corolla, from a focus if it didnt have the badges on them. What they do know is 1) OOOH arent Toyota the biggest selling brand in australia, they must be good and 2) OOOOh, I read the Ford Falcon is performing badly in the sales, there must be something wrong with Ford cars.

If you read that a prime minister was corrupt, but you knew the rest of the cabinet were fine up standing people, I can assure you the whole party would be wiped out at the next election. If the leader of the pack (Falcon) is on the nose (and it doesnt even have to be valid, just perceived), then the rest in the group (focus, fiesta, territory etc) are gonna suffer the same result.

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by Brazen

I have been one of the fiercest critics of Fords advertising of the Falcon. Ford need to spell out these attributes that JDP80 listed. I have young women in my equestrian club who didnt know that Falcons can tow horse floats, one of them thought a 2.4litre Rav4 would have a higher tow rating.

If Ford thinks that the public know all the great aspects of a large Australian car, they are wrong. The public needs to be re-educated on the Falcon, Holden are just as guilty of this as well. But I guess this is for another topic.

JPD80 is right and so are you. Ford need to educate buyers on why Falcon is a smart choice.

1. Split Fold rear seat which no competitor offers. Which means the peace of mind and visual security of having a boot but when bigger items are needed to be carried they can. ie Flexibility.
2. RWD means that the Falcon has the tightest turning circle in its class. Better manoevreability and a tighter turning circle than many smaller cars. I drive a FWD Aurion at work these days, and in the carpark it feels like a barge with slow and wide steering.
3. 6 Speed auto efficiency of 9.9L/100km with tremendous torque.
4. Plenty of space
5. RWD is fun to drive compared to opposition. ie Zoom Zoom.
6. Call it the Gen7 Falcon. Talk about how we have sold 2.5 Million over 50 years. We know what Australians want.
7. Talk up the 'sports sedan' as being "X-Rated family fun" TM
8. When they have a win advertise it / more. ie "The number 1 selling 6 cylinder sedan". That is a winners attitude. Talk UP the WINS!

[csv8]

Ford courts buyer revolt
Bruce Newtown, Richard Blackburn
January 15, 2011

Ford clams up on Falcon future
Ford Australia are following the lead of their US colleagues by refusing to provide details of their plans for the Falcon.
Video feedbackVideo settings
Ford is facing a backlash over plans to abandon the traditional rear-wheel-drive layout of its locally built Falcon, with a Drive net poll suggesting buyers won't warm to a Falcon driven solely through the front wheels.

Ford is facing a backlash over plans to abandon the traditional rear-wheel-drive layout of its locally built Falcon, with a Drive net poll suggesting buyers won't warm to a Falcon driven solely through the front wheels.

A poll of almost 9000 readers revealed only 2 per cent would favour a front-drive Falcon over a rear-drive version.

In contrast, 48 per cent preferred the current set-up and 30 per cent wanted all-wheel-drive. The other 20 per cent ticked "don't care".

Advertisement: Story continues below
The news comes after Ford Motor Company's global design chief, J. Mays, all but confirmed the Falcon would adopt the same underpinnings as the US-made Ford Taurus, which has front- and all-wheel-drive versions.

"I wouldn't be holding my breath for a rear-wheel-drive Falcon," Mays says. "I think the chances are we will be all-wheel-drive."

He also hints that cheaper Falcons could be offered with front-wheel-drive and says a decision will be made within six months.

Under the company's "One Ford" plan, it is moving towards developing a single global platform for all its vehicles. That leaves the future of the Australian-built Falcon, Territory and Falcon ute under a cloud, as they are made almost exclusively for the domestic market.

The decision appears to threaten the Broadmeadows production facility but a Ford Australia spokesman says the company's future looks positive.

Rear-wheel-drive cars are generally perceived as dynamically superior to front-drive, particularly for towing and performance models, though many of the world's best performance cars are all-wheel-drive.

[Brazen]

Hate to go on, but I guess its to do with the future of Falcon, the way its being marketed now...

The problem is, Ford gives me no reason to buy a Falcon over a Camry or Mazda 6.

Power? Ford havn't mentioned power for years, I assume its pretty poor
Rear wheel drive? Huh does it have it? Ford hasnt said whats so good about it?
Room? Is it roomier than most cars? I dont know.
Built for Australian Conditions? Is it? I guess this is a bad thing anyway as Ford never mentions it..
Tow rating? Must be the same as a Camry or something as Ford never talks about it
Ride/Handling? Below average I suppose as Ford steers well clear of the subject

But then they constantly waste time talking about the Falcon having cruise control or 5 star safety.. basically the same as every other friggen family car on the road. I know what they are trying to do, but people shopping for a new car already have a basic checklist of features they know about. Tell them things you cant find in another car.

One of the first rules in Marketing is to sell the DIFFERENCES not the similiarities. Tell the public about what makes the Falcon different to every other Accord, Outlander, Kluger, Maxima, Aurion...etc in its price range.

Even if people dont need these attributes, just telling people about them will make them think they need them.

[max_torq]

Originally Posted by FPV GTHO

Some thoughts..

Clearly Falcons future revolves heavily around CD4, as that will be the true global large car platform, regardless of any potential partnering between Taurus, Falcon or Mustang.

With that said, CD4 will underpin the next Mondeo. Unless something drastically changes, i cant see Ford pulling Mondeo from the market again and putting Falcon badges on something similar. The current EUCD Mondeo is a similar length to E8 Falcon, but narrower. The current CD3 Fusion has similar interior space to E8 Falcon as well, so CD4 is unlikely to be smaller in either dimension.

So the CD3 platform is an evolution of the old Telstar/Mazda 626 chassis, wow what a relic.

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by max_torq

So the CD3 platform is an evolution of the old Telstar/Mazda 626 chassis, wow what a relic.

Ummmm.. No.

Read your own link and you'll see they are completely different