Stupid broken drain cover....

anarchyok · 30-11-2009, 01:04 PM

So whilst I was away camping this week, my wife hit a broken drain cover that was sticking out on the side of a chicane. The result - 2 slashed tyres, 2 dented rims and possible underbody damage. I should know by this arvo the extent of the damage and whether to go through insurance ($950 excess) or bite the bullet and pay for damage myself.

My question is, and refer to pics attached, should I be chasing the local council for the cost of the damages? And if something similar has happened to you, how did you approach the council and what was the outcome? I've seen threads on potholes, but nothing relating to damage from a curb. The drain in question in the pic shows that it has been taped off to prevent pedestrians falling down it - does this prove the council regards it as a hazard and does that help my cause? The actual part that was hit was knocked down into the drain by the impact so is not shown jutting out in the pic taken.

Your thoughts on this would be appreciated!

The drain....

The results....

GULL · 30-11-2009, 01:12 PM

Man thats got to suck,i would be well cranky if was my car,sorry it happened to you,i would seek some help from a solicitor.

The Yeti · 30-11-2009, 01:12 PM

I supose you need to work out the cost to repair before you work out if to claim or not?

the look of the wheels and tyres I dont think the cost of the 2 and a wheel alingment will exceed the excess unless of course there is other damge to the steering (will be easy visable when doign the wheel alingment

A good indication will be if its drive able currently (since the accident) does the steering pull to one side while driving or brakeing oe vibrate / shudder if no you mightbe lucky but still best t oget the alingment checked and get the guys to inspect for other damage.

I would try the council for the damages but I dont know how much luck you'll have as they will argue you shouldnt have been driving in the gutter to begin with but give it a shot

anarchyok · 30-11-2009, 01:17 PM

Yeh I was a little cranky, especially when the wife's Pug 205 decided to bust a hose on Friday night leaving us with no driveable car atm!

The cost of the 2 wheels and tyres is only $510, providing they still have stock of that model of rim, otherwise double that for 4 new ones...I haven't driven it since, as we can't remove the wheels to put spares on as the nuts are too tight for the standard lever to remove.

Its in atm getting an inspection done.

I understand the issue with the council, but the draincover was actually protruding past the line of the gutter when it was hit...dunno if that changes things.

RG · 30-11-2009, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anarchyok

Yeh I was a little cranky, especially when the wife's Pug 205 decided to bust a hose on Friday night leaving us with no driveable car atm!

The cost of the 2 wheels and tyres is only $510, providing they still have stock of that model of rim, otherwise double that for 4 new ones...I haven't driven it since, as we can't remove the wheels to put spares on as the nuts are too tight for the standard lever to remove.

Its in atm getting an inspection done.

I understand the issue with the council, but the draincover was actually protruding past the line of the gutter when it was hit...dunno if that changes things.

It does I'm pretty sure. The tape says to me that it is a known issue and the fact that it was protruding onto the roadway means that they left it in an unsafe condition.

I'd be on the phone to them asap.

My poor XF · 30-11-2009, 01:25 PM

Unless the council had been made aware of the drain cover as a risk to vehicles on the road i doubt you will have any luck with them.

If however someone had notified the council, in writing, then you may be able to seek compensation as they were aware of a potential issue but failed to act. They also may have been repairing the drain and failed to replace it as it should have been in which case they would also be liable.

Best bet would be to speak to a solicitor or even your local m.p. and get them to speak to the council.

The Yeti · 30-11-2009, 01:37 PM

As RG said it has tape over it so some one is awear of it I would think it would be safe to assume Council knows

anarchyok · 30-11-2009, 01:52 PM

My question now is - should i contact council directly about it now, or wait until I hear whether I might be going through insurance, and let insurance contact them on my behalf?

I don't wanna jeopardise the insurance company having sucess if I go that way by me having already been in contact.

thanks for the comments so far!

RG · 30-11-2009, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anarchyok

My question now is - should i contact council directly about it now, or wait until I hear whether I might be going through insurance, and let insurance contact them on my behalf?

I don't wanna jeopardise the insurance company having sucess if I go that way by me having already been in contact.

thanks for the comments so far!

If you haven't contacted your insurer yet then contact the council now, I doubt your insurer will as councils are generally difficult to deal with.

LTDHO · 30-11-2009, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anarchyok

My question is, and refer to pics attached, should I be chasing the local council for the cost of the damages?

Nope.

Firstly, you shouldn't drive so close to the gutter.She would have damaged her wheels regardless on the drain being predamaged or not.
Secondly you need to confirm the council knew it was damaged and hadn't fixed it in the apropiate time frame.

Eu-GenixX · 30-11-2009, 02:27 PM

call your insurance company and ask what they think..

failing that... call the council.. report the issue.. as the cover has already fallen in the hole.. they won't need to fix it.... if it was still there.. reporting it means no one else would fall victim...

i had an issue with a pothole causing sever rim damage.. i called the council.. and first and foremost they took details of where the potholes were.. so they could get them repaired... and then referred me to their insurance company to claim damages...

their insurance company just said to sent them in writing details of where and when the incident occured.. plus to include 2 quotes for repair.. or receipts if the repair was already done...

good luck with it mate

anarchyok · 30-11-2009, 02:53 PM

Thanks guys, very helpful.

LTDHO, I understand what your saying but the road thins down thru the chicane and the drain cover was protruding out past the gutter. There isn't much clearance at the part of the road without going close to the gutter. You can see by the rubber marks on the road that the driving line is close to apex of the curve, where the drain was protruding. Had it not been protruding, I doubt she would have hit the curb.

potsyfromparkes · 30-11-2009, 11:42 PM

Don't waste your time with a solicitor; they will probably charge you a minimum of $70 for the consultation. Go see the chamber magistrate at your local courthouse, they will give you a quick decision and it should cost you nothing. Oh, and do not forget to ring the courthouse for an appointment time with said magistrate.
Good Luck

Yellow_Festiva · 01-12-2009, 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anarchyok

The cost of the 2 wheels and tyres is only $510, providing they still have stock of that model of rim, otherwise double that for 4 new ones...I haven't driven it since, as we can't remove the wheels to put spares on as the nuts are too tight for the standard lever to remove.

When I do a home wheel rotation and encounter this problem I slip a hollow 6 foot steel fence post onto the lever.

Grab the end of the post, and you need the strength of a 5 year old to loosen the tightest of nuts.

Sorry, cant help you with anything else as it's out of my field of expertise. Having said that, my house mate blew and buckled 2 rims on her newish Beemer in a massive pot hole and the council fobbed her off enough times for her to give up.. (she could only be 'bothered' making 2 calls).

I have also heard of people who are persistent, and get a friend with some legal know how draft up and send a letter and get the repairs done with minimal resistance.

last fairlane · 01-12-2009, 12:33 AM

Fifteen years back the local Beenleigh council had a drain cover sitting up at about 45 degrees like a mouth just waiting to catch something well it did me in an XD Ghia and it stuffed 2 rims and tyres well I went to them and told them what happened and was asked to write a letter of demand for the cost of replacement of the rims and tyres
so I went to Ford and got quotes for the two rims $180 each at the time and the tyre service for two tyres and sent it off to them $500 odd from memory and they paid me by cheque with a letter saying that I would take no further action against them which I signed all up it was finalised in about 2 weeks
Thanks John

LTDterri · 01-12-2009, 09:35 AM

Contact the local Council immediatly, if you leave it too long they will sceptical about your claim, only thing I think the Council may rip you on is that you have mounted the curb and really you should be on the road.Also make sure your insurance is aware, not necessarily lodge a claim

**ebxr8240** · 01-12-2009, 09:48 AM

GOOD LUCK !!!
I know what the council will say.. The driver went over or hit the curb...

If you went to Bob Jane and said the Mrs did it.. They will laugh .. Yea sure that's what they all say.. Been there too... Lol..

anarchyok · 01-12-2009, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LTDterri

Contact the local Council immediatly, if you leave it too long they will sceptical about your claim, only thing I think the Council may rip you on is that you have mounted the curb and really you should be on the road.Also make sure your insurance is aware, not necessarily lodge a claim

Hey guys - few people have mentioned the mounting the curb. To reiterate what I said originally and then explained a couple of times, the broken drain cover at the time of inpact was sticking out PAST the curb. There is no other scuff marks on the damaged tyres to suggest that the car was being driven against the curb. If that was the case, I'd chalk it up to a case of bad driving practise. However this bit of concrete the snagged the tyres was protruding out past the curb line.

Car is being fixed - along with other repairs needed too....so 2 new front shocks, 2 new front rotors, auto trans rear seal replaced, new diff, bent steering arm fixed and a fairmont steering wheel fitted

Bob Jane were really helpful actually, they found me 2 replacement rims and the same tyres, so it will all be matching

Council has been contacted and I'm now making a claim with their insurance agency. I'll let you know how I go!

Fev · 01-12-2009, 04:44 PM

good luck! hope it all goes well and you don't have to foot the bill

anarchyok · 01-12-2009, 05:06 PM

thanks Fev, here's hoping too!!

I'm just ultimately looking forward to getting my car back

Miss the old girl...

b2tf · 01-12-2009, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anarchyok

The drain....

I am assuming this was taken after the accident. If so, how did it look before? Unless there was a piece of that drain actually sticking out onto the road, I think you're not going to get very far with council. Yes the tape does indicate that they know it is damaged but thats more for pedestrians so they don't go walking into it in the dark etc - not for cars. If it was a problem for cars I would have expected the shoulder of the road to be closed off and signposted.

anarchyok · 01-12-2009, 11:50 PM

The drain cover that has fallen in was sticking out when my wife hit it - this pic was taken the next afternoon, so about 24 hours later. The drain cover has shifted a small amount and fallen in further than it was before. Luckily the damage to the tyres shows that something sharp was sticking out as there is no scrubbing damage. Tow truck drivers and smash repairers agreed with what we said so have some others opinions listed.

Council have seemed keen so far to help and I'm now putting my claims and receipts in writing to their insurance... I'm optimistic still at this stage.

ltd · 02-12-2009, 10:01 AM

Council liable, no brainer here.
anarchyok you'll be paid out no problems.
When it is a pothole that causes damage it is harder to prove but this was an obstruction on the roadway; clearly the councils fault.

I'll put it this way. I know a guy who ran up the back of a parked caravan and wrote both it and his car off.
Long story short, as the caravan was unregistered he was able to successfully sue the owner for personal injury and damages to his vehicle.
So, because it was unregistered, the caravan owner ended up with a smashed up and written off caravan, no reparations for any costs, and a bill of around 55K for personal injury. All because, he stuck something on the roadway that shouldn't have been there (unregistered) which was deemed significantly contributory to the accident. Had it been registered the caravan owner would have received a new van, and not be borne of any costs.
The RTA, councils and various government authorities know that placing anything on a roadway or in the path of traffic that doesn't belong leaves them liable; just like the hapless SOB with the caravan.

YOOT · 02-12-2009, 06:37 PM

Yep, definitely liable.

You have a photo showing a drain with no cover, why was the dover dislodged? If it affects the safety of traffic or pedestrian than it should be bolted down, or be hinged or circular so it can't fall in. Only old Sewer manholes are rectangular.

This would indicate it was damaged somehow. This is a council responsibility provided someone sees it and reports it.

It should have barricade around it if it is not of a design that is trafficable, and it certainly should not by near a road. People do have to leave the road, its not illegal and very possible, this would be a design flaw, also council problem.

If it was under rapair where are the safety barriers or road signs?

I can't see any reason why this should have happened and be your fault.

anarchyok · 02-12-2009, 09:08 PM

thanks for the positive comments guys...i've written a killer letter to the insurance and just waiting for all my receipts before it gets sent in!!

MNM96 · 03-12-2009, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by My poor XF

Unless the council had been made aware of the drain cover as a risk to vehicles on the road i doubt you will have any luck with them.

Not correct! Ignorance is not a defense.

If you are insured, which you say you are, claim for repairs and hold the council responsible......... If your wife hit the cover while protuding ONTO the road. If she ran up the gutter......sorry.

anarchyok · 03-12-2009, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MNM96

Not correct! Ignorance is not a defense.

If you are insured, which you say you are, claim for repairs and hold the council responsible......... If your wife hit the cover while protuding ONTO the road. If she ran up the gutter......sorry.

I am insured but because my wife is under 25 and wasn't listed my excess is $2100. RACV agreed it was probably councils fault, and if I made a claim, they'd probably be able to do it with no charge. However, if they didn't find the council at fault, I'd be up for $2100. Basically it wasn't a game of russian roulette I was gonna play with the risk of a $2100 excess.

Expenses all up for repairs have come in under $1000 luckily, so I've documented it all, and sending receipts to council's insurance for reimbursement.

Stefan · 03-12-2009, 02:20 PM

To me this looks like your missus came off the road and hit the gutter!

I'd be personnally be embarressed to claim damage for hitting a drain that is clearly NOT ON THE ROAD...

If you hit a power pole on the footpath would you sue energy australia for damaging your car?

Good Luck but IMO you need to take some responsibility

ltd · 03-12-2009, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stefan

To me this looks like your missus came off the road and hit the gutter!

I'd be personnally be embarressed to claim damage for hitting a drain that is clearly NOT ON THE ROAD...

If you hit a power pole on the footpath would you sue energy australia for damaging your car?

Good Luck but IMO you need to take some responsibility

Don't laugh, that has happened before. Guy argued that it was NSW government and energy Australia's fault he was injured as they had failed to put power cables underground thus creating a hazard. Went nowhere, but I think 1 cm outside the margins of location for the pole and it was settled out of court for fear of creating a precedent.

**Giant Cranium** · 03-12-2009, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stefan

To me this looks like your missus came off the road and hit the gutter!

I'd be personnally be embarressed to claim damage for hitting a drain that is clearly NOT ON THE ROAD...

If you hit a power pole on the footpath would you sue energy australia for damaging your car?

Good Luck but IMO you need to take some responsibility

its as though you havnt read the thread. he said the concrete lid was out past the gutter. stupid reply on your part