Post AU and Thermofan conversion hiccup

Bass Crazy · 14-09-2006, 08:25 AM

Hey guys.

A few months back I did an AU engine conversion on the EA, along with the thermo fans.
I am having a little temperature issue which is starting to annoy the crap out of me, just wondering if this behaviour is normal for an E series running theroms.

Background Info.

- Stock AU engine, LPG, standard thermostat, clean new coolant, standard timing, BBM manifold, full exhaust, no water loss or signs of head gasket issues.
- Radiator is a natrad item, 4 years old, was cleaned while doing engine conversion, radiator place said it was still ok.
- Have since removed the air condition gear that sat in front of the radiator as it was not flowing well, issue is better, but still there.

Ok so if I drive the on a cold morning (6-10deg)on the freeway for about 15 mins for example, the temp will be fine and sit on about 1/4. Stop at a few sets of lights, probably 5-10 mins in total, but a bit of normal start stop driving in between, and the temp will soon find itself up around 3/4 and will continue up to hot unless the fans come on, or I start driving consistently, then it will gradually come down.

Basically, unless im doing a constant cruise speed, the fans will come on, and thats in bloody winter!!
Any stop start driving, and the cooling system struggles. What will happen when im towing a heavy load at 38deg? The thing will be useless.

I had the same sort of cooling system issue with the EA engine just before it was removed, but it only became apparent on real hot days, probably because the clutch fan has a consistent air flow, even on the cold mornings, could have been hiding the problem.

So what do you think guys, should I grab a new radiator, or is there another issue?

mcflux · 14-09-2006, 08:53 AM

Thermostat maybe?

What thermofan setup do you have? I assume you're running a thermoswitch. You could hobo it and bypass the switch if you want.

Or... check that you've got the fans blowing the right way (you never know).

Bass Crazy · 14-09-2006, 09:22 AM

Thermostat seems to be opening correctly (opens at about 1/4 to 1/3 on the guage, and i did a check on it before it went back into the engine. Upper and lower thermostat housings are new, as well as water pump and every hose in the engine bay.

EF Fans are running off a Davis craig thermo switch, and blow air the correct way. When the fans turn on, the are on for about 30 seconds, the temp will go down from 3/4 to about 1/2 or just under.

mcflux · 14-09-2006, 09:43 AM

Maybe the thermo switch is cranked up way too high?

Bass Crazy · 14-09-2006, 09:48 AM

The switch is set to come on at 3/4. My issue is that on a 6-10 deg winter morning, should the fans be turning on at all? I have never driven a car that has its fan come on so often.

mcflux · 14-09-2006, 09:52 AM

Well it is an e-series. Cramped conditions do cause heat! Pilch has a thermofan setup in his LPG-clevo-powered XC and that thing hardly ever switches on, I presume it's due to the greater bonnet clearance.

Mine's on pretty much all the time too, because heat-soak with Windsors sucks, power at 3/4 temp & no fans is down compared to 1/4 temp with fans on for me.

BI6TIM · 14-09-2006, 10:28 AM

Bass Crazy, I agree there is something wrong there. I have not long put thermo's on my ED and don't have that problem, even in Queensland where there is no 6deg mornings. Even in recent 28deg days I can drive a half hour with normal stopping at traffic lights and only ever here the fans come on at the top of the R maybe once or twice. Maybe the water pump in that AU motor you just fitted leaves something to be desired (it's possible, did you check it at all before fitment?).

Christiaan · 14-09-2006, 10:33 AM

Well, I've had issues with my cooling system, and I'm running an AU water Pump too, BUT, the AU water pump has a 94DA part number. So it's not that that's the problem.

Try drilling a hole in the thermostat. I just drilled a 5mm Hole in it, and it seems to be running cooler. Haven't tried driving it in the morning to see if the surging has been fixed yet, as I only drilled a hole in it yesterday.

Btw, I have an ED Fairmont, serpentine conversion, EF thermos, and craig davies thermal switch..

Cheers,
Chris

Christiaan · 14-09-2006, 11:58 AM

Well, the 5-6mm hole is OVERKILL. The car runs at below the N for like, 20 mins in the morning. Took ages for it to heat up. But I CBF changing it again, so it'll be like that for a while. With summer coming up, I think it'll be ok.

Does anyone know when the computer stops putting extra fuel into the car when it warms up? What temp the coolant gets to?

Bass Crazy · 14-09-2006, 12:48 PM

Drilling a hole will only delay engine warm up and do nothing for making the cooling system more efficient. It will also help to mask any thermostat problems, but is not a solution. The factory thermostat im running has a hole in is anyhow with a one way valve.

As for the water pump. Its normally pretty obvious to pick a water pump issue. If it not moving enough water, then a quick rev or the engine should see the temp go down, even if its just momentarily. This is not the case in my car.

What I am experiencing is excessive radiator temperature, as the temp sensor in the radiator is agreeing with my engine, so it cant be a water pump or thermostat issue, because all of the water in the cooling system is at the same temperature. (internal to engine, and the radiator)

The engine compartment on the EA and EL are pretty close. The biggest difference in the cars is the front bumper air intakes. All i can think of is thats the EA's air induction though the front of the car is much less then the EL, and because of this, the radiator never gets time to cool down.

However, if other people with EA-ED's dont have this problem, then it cant be a design issue, and must be my radiator.

Logical?

old_mate · 14-09-2006, 01:14 PM

Logical. I have never had a eseries radiator (have had 3 of them in the family since 1992) come out and go to a rad shop without something having to be done, be it end tanks or needing a new one totally cos the core was stuffed. These engines have uber casting sand issues

one thing i cannot say i have ever noticed though is if my EL uses its fans or not. I'm going to have to pay more attention

old_mate · 14-09-2006, 01:15 PM

and cos its cheap to fit anyway, head to ford and buy a new thermostat. Totally rules that out this way

LTDHO · 14-09-2006, 01:40 PM

What sender are you using? Is it calibrated to suit your dash?

I have my fans kick in at 1/4 and the temp stays there. It goes up to 1/2 If I use one fan only. When driving the fans never come on.

Christiaan · 14-09-2006, 01:51 PM

Simon

It's Yagz here btw bro.. I just went and bought a genuine Ford thermostat, and it has a hole in it, with a float type thing attached. I'm about to fit it now.

Are you running a genuine ford thermostat?

OED666 · 14-09-2006, 01:59 PM

i used to have a cooling problem similar to the above problems. one night, the side tank blew out, and time for a new radiator.

if anyone is after a new EF-EL radiator let me know. it fits straight into ALL e-series. (EA-ED with EF-EL and AU engines). Its not even a week old.

cost me $217 brand new from repco, and been used for 3 days. i am after $195. can send at buyers expense. can send asap!!!

Bass Crazy · 14-09-2006, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shuresm58

Simon

It's Yagz here btw bro.. I just went and bought a genuine Ford thermostat, and it has a hole in it, with a float type thing attached. I'm about to fit it now.

Are you running a genuine ford thermostat?

Yes its genuine.

It is not the thermostat, not possible!

The sender im using was carried over from the EA engine, so its the same sender the car has had all its life.

The car will not overheat with the fans on, actually, it wont even move off a 1/4 if the fans are on no matter how hard its driven.

OED666 · 14-09-2006, 03:32 PM

i can rape mine, and then stop, wait a couple of mins, rape it again, and it will get to R on the gauge. on highway driving and with thermos on, it drops below the "N" and sits between N and the cold mark. i did notice it was much cooler with a newer radiator.

Christiaan · 14-09-2006, 04:25 PM

A new radiator wouldn't hurt.. But it depends how much you trust the guys that said your current one is OK..

OED666 · 14-09-2006, 04:49 PM

i would say after 5 years they are getting cactus. i have replaced one every 5 years, or the last one died.

dont forget i have one for sale.

Christiaan · 14-09-2006, 05:37 PM

Ok, I'm now officially OVER my car.

I changed to a genuine ford thermostat, it has a built in hole on the side, so I thought beauty.

Drive the car, and it's up to 3/4 temp when cruising, fans kick in, comes down, and then the same thing over and over. It's as if the propelling force of the car isn't doing ANYTHING to cool down the water in the radiator.

What the hell is going on!!

I'm in the same boat as Bass Crazy at the moment. Serpentine conversion on an ED, EF Thermo's, and a near new (2 years) NATRAD radiator.

I'm about ready to hit the wall.

Eu-GenixX · 14-09-2006, 05:51 PM

i don't have any cooling issues since i did my conversion...but my thermo's are hooked up to a switch in the cabin.. so i totally control when they come on.. i hardly have to turn them on really... i do the half hour trip to work every morning without a problem.. and home again in the afternoon...

i don't even think i have a thermostat to be honest.. with the way the temperature has always been in the car... if i drive constantly with the fans on... the needle drops below the line below N.. so technically off the guage near the blue block

OED666 · 14-09-2006, 07:57 PM

think about this then...

you want your thermostat to open BEFORE your thermos turn on, because if your thermos are on, and your thermostat closed its not going to be cooling coolant that is FLOWING through your radiator.

check the temp of your thermostat and also what temp your thermos turn on at and turn off.

You want your thermostat to open before your fans switch on, and to also stay open after your fans turn off.

Christiaan · 14-09-2006, 08:03 PM

OED,

I had an aftermarket thermostat in there, with the same size hole in there as what the ford genuines have, and this morning when driving my car into the workshop, the temp wouldn't go above the N.

Now, this afternoon, I decided to go ford genuine, to try and make the car heat up properly, which also has a small hole in the side, same size as the hole I had in my aftermarket.

I drove home with the ford thermostat, and the temp would go to L, where the thermos would turn on. I thought this was wrong, so i pulled over when it got to L, and quickly checked the top radiator hose. It was alot cooler than what the engine was saying the engine water was. So, i played with the thermal switch, to see what temp the thermos came on at, and i had to turn the thermal switch down to about 1/5 on the knob. instead of 1/2. My thermal switch has a conductor in the top radiator hose, and won't turn the thermos on until the temp in that hose is right. So if the thermostat isn't opening, the water in that pipe isn't going to be hot enough to turn the thermos on, which is why the temp is going to L, where the stat is opening, and thats when the thermos turn on.

So, my evaluation is, that the thermostat isn't opening, or sticking closed until the L on my temp gauge, which is WAY too hot to be opening. So i'm thinking I've got a buggered thermostat from ford, as this morning, the car was running very cold with the aftermarket one and the hole.

I'm going to go to ford and take back the thermostat, and shove it directly up their behinds.

Bass Crazy · 15-09-2006, 08:05 AM

Im gonna have to go with a radiator... it has to be the problem. Only other thing I can think of is improving the seal around the radiator/front bar section so the air is forced through the radiator more.

Anyone know what the V8 radiators from natrad cost?

BI6TIM · 15-09-2006, 08:21 AM

Don't use ford thermostats they are too hot. Get an 82deg celcius thermostat from repco (as aposed to the 92deg celcius standard). This is what I'm using in my car with no hastles. My temp is lovely, spends most of it's time at the start of the 'O' on the gauge and if I stop at enough lights in heavy trafic the fans will come on when the gauge reaches the top of the 'R' on the gauge and turn off at the top of the 'O' on the gauge and all is well. I have wired up a thermatic fan switch from a Subaru of some description that screws into the thermostat housing and claims to turn on at 95deg and off at 90deg.
On top of that though I have my radiators checked about every year because they are prone to cloging up I have found in these things.

OED666 · 15-09-2006, 08:53 AM

bass crazy - i asked about v8 and 6cyl radiators at repco last week. the guy showed me that v8 and 6 cyl radiators are listed as the same part number.

where are you located???

Bass Crazy · 15-09-2006, 09:42 AM

Just spoke to repco, correct, they have one radiator for the 6 & 8.

Natrad down here in melbourne sell the 6cyl radiator for $190, and a 3 core for $380, 3 year warranty.

Jap crap can be has for about $120... but ill keep away from those.

Christiaan · 15-09-2006, 09:51 AM

Ok, so i want an 82degree Repco aftermarket thermostat.

Do i need to drill a hole in it or just whack it in and see how it goes?

OED666 · 15-09-2006, 10:31 AM

just wack the thermostat in.

bass crazy, do you want to buy my week old radiator???

Christiaan · 15-09-2006, 03:32 PM

I put the 82 degree thermostat in, and the car isn't heating up when driving anymore. So, the radiator is fine. The fans only come on once the car has been sitting for 30 seconds of so, as I have the thermos set to come on at 1/2.

When driving, the car will sit at a constant 1/4, if I decide to give it a little bit of a bootful, or slow down from 80-100 kays for more than a minute or so, the temp will go to between 1/4 and a 1/2, where the thermostat opens, and the car cools back down to 1/4.

I'm very happy now, but I'm still to see how bad the surging will be in the morning when driving the car from cold start.

Regards,
Chris