QLD Police No Proof Speed Cameras Make us Safer on The Roads

[csv8]

'ONE of the state’s top cops concedes he does not have any proof that the speed-camera crackdown is keeping us safer on the roads.

Acting Assistant Commissioner Mike Keating yesterday held a press conference to respond to The Courier-Mail’s revelation that the slashing of the “tolerance margin” for drivers caught by speed cameras had triggered a 47 per cent hike in low-level fines.

Even though the crackdown has been running for 21 months, Mr Keating (below) said he did not have data to back a claim that the crackdown on speed had prevented crashes, injury or deaths.

“We are not making a claim that the two are linked … it’s very early in the process … (at the start) the Commissioner (Ian Stewart) believed there would be … benefits for road safety by (cutting) the tolerance level,” Mr Keating said.




It came as Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk backed away from previous calls for the tolerance levels to be made public.

When asked if she maintained the position she took in opposition of revealing tolerance levels, she said: “There probably is some merit, but I’m now in Government, I’m the Premier of the state.

“I said I’d lead a Government by consensus, so I’m more than happy to have the conversation with the Police Commissioner, but also let’s see what’s happening in other states as well,” she said.

Other states do not reveal tolerance levels, Mr Keating said.

He said statisticians may need up to 10 years to decide if the crackdown saved lives or injuries.

The road toll was at 68 yesterday, up eight on the same time last year.

Mr Keating said that he may “consider” introducing “graduated” fines, so a driver busted 5km/h over the posted limit would pay a lower fine than someone caught doing 13km/h over the limit.

“I don’t see anyone rushing to make that request (to me), (but) that’s something I would have to consider in more detail,” Mr Keating said.

He said the Queensland Police Service had collected data about the tolerance margin and car accidents but had not used any of it to *prepare a report.

“If (Mr Stewart) asks us … we can,” he said.

“We look forward to the research of the appropriate bodies to review the overall crash data and just see what relationship exists,” he said, referring to university and other policing researchers.

The QPS began lowering the margin on fixed and *mobile speed cameras in July 2013. It lowered the margin three times, with the final cut made in “the second half” of last year.

The exact size of the tolerance margin, and whether it is measured as a percentage of the speed zone or a number of km/h, is a closely guarded secret.

Mr Keating would only say the margin varied on the location of the speed camera.
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/q...-1227316012068

[dirty hands]

last night on the news the police have again adjusted
and lowered the speed tolerance of all speed cameras

they are just going to milk away drivers points... for just over speed limit ...for bucks


courier mail articel as above op
there is huge increase in the number of speeding offenders
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/q...-1227314312595

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by csv8

The road toll was at 68 yesterday, up eight on the same time last year.

It may be possible to deduce from this that the more severe speed camera regime is actually increasing the road toll!

[Trump]

Mike Keating will be unemployed soon...

[BIONIC MAN]

All this focus on speed.. Speed kills, speed this speed that.. Everyone is just paranoid looking at their speedo every 5 seconds and slowing down, speeding up, just driving surrounding motorists crazy... What about just being aware of your surroundings?
Almost every day I am on the road I see distracted drivers.. Looking at phones, eating, smoking etc. If people just took driving more seriously and maintained a higher level of concentration there would be way less accidents on our roads.

[XB GS 351 Coupe]

Originally Posted by BIONIC MAN

Almost every day I am on the road I see distracted drivers.. Looking at phones, eating, smoking etc. If people just took driving more seriously and maintained a higher level of concentration there would be way less accidents on our roads.

I think this is another topic all together and not related to speeding, and some of the stuff you mention is actually illegal as well.

[BIONIC MAN]

OK. My point was that going 10 or 20km over the speed limit does not result in a certain crash like police love to try and convince us it will.
I go over the speed limit every time I get in the car and have never had an accident in 20 years of driving.
They can't just keep lowering speed limits to the point where even the most incompetent, distracted drivers could negotiate a certain piece of road... It's about concentration and driving to the conditions.
We have a local road, always was 100kmh. Now because a few p-ss heads crashed late at night, probably doing way over 100km limit anyway, now the rest of us have to drive at 80kmh. The road has been massively upgraded and is way better than its ever been.. But some suit in an office now decided thats the new limit and they are there regularly to enforce it.
Speed, by itself is not the problem. But, Combined with fatigue, drinking and lack of concentration while driving it puts you into a situation where it's harder to recover from.

[simon varley]

Originally Posted by csv8

Mr Keating said that he may “consider” introducing “graduated” fines, so a driver busted 5km/h over the posted limit would pay a lower fine than someone caught doing 13km/h over the limit.

it' not his ******* job to "introduce" anything. It's his job to enforce the law. full stop.

[MercurySilver]

In before " don't speed and you'll have no problem" comments

[BIONIC MAN]

That's exactly right.. Spend at least half your time looking at your speedo.. Adjusting speed alert, resetting cruise control what ever it takes to stay under the constantly chasing limit, and the rest of your time constantly checking the roadside barrage of signs for a speed related one.
Try and catch a glimpse of the road occasionally, and you might notice the car reversing out of their driveway.
Did anyone say distracted??

We have a roadwork section, been there for months, where there are well over 15 changes of speed limit in less than 10km.. And they add more and alter them day to day?! Patrol cars doing laps to save everyone's lives from a incorrect speed for that particular 400m stretch.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Loud_Noises

Mike Keating will be unemployed soon...

When you work for the Government, don't ever play politics.

This isn't really news, everyone knows speed cameras are revenue raising tools.

[BIONIC MAN]

I wish someone in government had the guts to say that!
Tell us what we already know...

[mik]

what i have noticed more and more lately , is more and more people are going through red lights where there are no speed cameras.

And im not talking wizzing through on the amber and red lighting as they are leaving the intersection ............... im talking 2 seconds after the light turns red, blatantly , they come up to the red light and go through, i had a bloke come from behind me the other day,
i was already stopped at the red lights, he rounded me up and continued through the intersection...... and no it wasnt a cop car.

i dunno if this is just a melbourne north thing ? but nothing would surprise me.
it appears as though the cameras stop law biding dudes and dudets, but the rest just do as they want when no cameras or law or is around, so really not much has changed .

[Franco Cozzo]

You know how it works, if you're driving around Melbourne's Northern burbs:

Green: Go
Yellow: Go faster
Red: Slow down, check first then go

[Bearman]

Originally Posted by Loud_Noises

Mike Keating will be unemployed soon...

Former Acting Assistant Commissioner Mike Keating will give us an update from his place in the Centrelink queue.

He's keepimg it real but we all know, it's easy money for GovCo. Lately I'm thinking the QLD govt is trying to out-Nanny State us Vics!!

[noflac52]

Why will statisticians need 10 yrs to know if the crackdown is working when anyone with a little common sense can see that it hasn't so far by the 8 extra deaths this year.

So do we wait another 8 yrs to see how many extra people get killed by this policy or do we say the indications are that it has had a negative effect and rescind the policy now as the risk factors associated with it are showing that they are too high.

If this was a new generation improved prescription drug and the death rate escalated at this alarming rate it would be withdrawn immediately. There would be no "lets wait and see how many more people die in the next eight years just in case" policy so that we can see if it worked statistically!!!

[blueoval]

Originally Posted by noflac52

Why will statisticians need 10 yrs to know if the crackdown is working when anyone with a little common sense can see that it hasn't so far by the 8 extra deaths this year.

So do we wait another 8 yrs to see how many extra people get killed by this policy or do we say the indications are that it has had a negative effect and rescind the policy now as the risk factors associated with it are showing that they are too high.

If this was a new generation improved prescription drug and the death rate escalated at this alarming rate it would be withdrawn immediately. There would be no "lets wait and see how many more people die in the next eight years just in case" policy so that we can see if it worked statistically!!!

How dare you point out common sense. We will have none of that in here.

[Blue Roo]

I'll go one better.

We need is to build a better. Smarter, more modern road system with proper planning for future demands (traffic). Then shut down all the Speed Cameras (Fix and Mobile). Because we all know that Speed Cameras are nothing more then revenue raising.

After that, issue Fines for all the slow drivers that don't sit on the speed limit ( 20kph below the posted speed limit). That way you can keep the Road Toll Down and keep the traffic flowing.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by noflac52

Why will statisticians need 10 yrs to know if the crackdown is working when anyone with a little common sense can see that it hasn't so far by the 8 extra deaths this year.

Road toll improves from one year to next... police take credit, say enforcement deserves the credit. Road toll worsens from one year to next. Police blame drivers, say enforcement isn't tough enough and they will be tougher on drivers.

So no. They don't need 10 years to make policy changes when it suits them, only when it suits us.

[marty351]

I think it's time to start a citizens legislation council vetted by the Australian electoral commission, to shut down dangerous government acts proven to be detrimental to the safety of the public. Experimentation with law, ie:speed limits and waiting 8 years for statistics, would in any sound profession be culpable for any death or injury caused.

[99AUXR]

I was talking to an NZ police guy here who does all the crash investigations on fatalities and determines the cause etc etc at a car crash we towed recently. Was interesting as he said the majority of crashes he sees are to do with driver error and not with faults with the vehicle or road etc.

He then went on the say that speed isnt cause for the majority of the crashes and that if speed is involved it just amplifies the effects. He proceeded to say that he beleives the police speed campaigns are because they cannot police the other causes for the crashes as effectively e.g people falling asleep, being distracted. And the need to be seen to do something, also the words money grab were implied .

[zilo]

why dont they just put rego fees up by 200 bucks a year to raise necessary revenue and stop pretending that going 2km over the limit is a crime?

[BIONIC MAN]

I love it when we are hearing about a certain accident.. And police say.. We believe speed was a factor.
Well... der!? It's pretty hard to have a crash if your not moving!!!
Although tell that to the poor woman who pulled to the side of the road with a flat tire the other week on a long straight section of road with plenty of shoulder.. Who was subsequently slammed into at 100kmh by a distracted \incompetent driver not staying in their lane.

[Bearman]

That's the agenda to justify the over emphasis and extreme enforcement on speeding to protect the income stream for GovCo. For ANY accident speed is to be blamed. It's a very carefully orchestrated campaign.

And just what do they mean "speed was a factor" in any particular accident?
Exceeding the speed limit? By a little? Or a lot? Inappropriate speed for the conditions? Or just the mere fact the car was in motion?

We are being taken for a ride!!

[KW XRT]

Originally Posted by BIONIC MAN

All this focus on speed.. Speed kills, speed this speed that.. Everyone is just paranoid looking at their speedo every 5 seconds and slowing down, speeding up, just driving surrounding motorists crazy... What about just being aware of your surroundings?
Almost every day I am on the road I see distracted drivers.. Looking at phones, eating, smoking etc. If people just took driving more seriously and maintained a higher level of concentration there would be way less accidents on our roads.

Your right you know the yanks did a study to determine the biggest contributor to deaths in America.Turned out it was single lane highways.Worse news was to come when the found out that widening highways does not save lives.Infact the study showed that anything over 9meters was a contributing.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by zilo

why dont they just put rego fees up by 200 bucks a year to raise necessary revenue and stop pretending that going 2km over the limit is a crime?

that would effectively be a tax hike, and those never go down well. OTOH, many people buy into 'if you don't speed you don't pay' line, convincing themselves that contributing is entirely voluntary. were that truly the case, why were most of the NSW RTA's fixed camera sites signposted at well below 85th percentile? why are the vast majority of fines handed out for <10kph over, which has little contribution to road trauma? why is it that whenever a road is upgraded the speed limit on that road is downgraded?

the fact is that enforcing low-range speeding is a tax on normal human behaviour. the problem is not with the people breaking the law, its with the law itself.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by Bearman

And just what do they mean "speed was a factor" in any particular accident?

if slowing down could have prevented the accident, speed is noted as a factor. a fraudulent misuse of the statistics. a long time ago, when the ATSB first started putting road crash data on the web, they were quite open about it. you could pull out all manner of stats... one of which was crashes CAUSED by EXCEEDING THE SPEED LIMIT. as a causative factor, speeding was somewhere in the 3-5% range of road fatalities. when some of us began posting these stats on car forums and newsgroups, it wasnt long before those stats were no longer available on the ATSB site .... coincidence?

[Revolver]

Originally Posted by BIONIC MAN

That's exactly right.. Spend at least half your time looking at your speedo.. Adjusting speed alert, resetting cruise control what ever it takes to stay under the constantly chasing limit, and the rest of your time constantly checking the roadside barrage of signs for a speed related one.

I mostly agree with your posts, however, as Ive gotten older, its kind of occurred to me that if you cant control your speed, your not in control of your car. And if your not in control of your car, you shouldnt be on the road. You should have a fair idea on what you car feels like at a range of speeds after driving it for awhile. Plus there is a reason why you have a brake pedal.

Jeez, I sound like an arrogant cop there.

But with the lowering of tolerances, your car may feel like its doing 100, but just nudging 103 and SNAP!

Its a double edged sword.

But that's a bit off topic.

Of course there is no proof. And never will be. You cant directly correlate data for this. Because your not in a controlled environment, with controlled elements. There are far too many variables to say they help the road toll, or don't help the road toll. However, the barrage of brake lights that blaze away when everyone sees one and stands on the anchors (regardless if they are above, on or below the limit) lends me towards doesn't help the road toll.

68 isnt that bad. Queensland is growing and per the amount that move, live, born, immigrate, get on the roads up here each year, its actually pretty good, its actually declining.

But please don't take that out of context by saying "Good is it? Tell that to the friends and families of the 68 fatalities" I know first hand the effects of road fatalities, 3 I have attended, and one was a friend of the family, who I later attended the funeral. And Ive attended 3 more Funerals on top of that that were instances of road fatalities. So I know first hand.

But Im a realist. Population grows, invariably so does deaths. We are mortal. End of story.

[jemijona]

Originally Posted by mik

what i have noticed more and more lately , is more and more people are going through red lights where there are no speed cameras.

....

it appears as though the cameras stop law biding dudes and dudets, but the rest just do as they want when no cameras or law or is around, so really not much has changed .

I've seen this too. We need more red light cameras before more people are killed.

What makes these idiots better than the rest of us to allow them to ignore traffic signals?

[noflac52]

Its a sad fact Revolver that as long as we drive we will have a road toll and the figures that are being reached now can be classified as good or even very good per capita of road miles travelled by the population as it keeps increasing, but for a government hell bent on gaining revenue from motorists we will never get the nod of approval for most of us driving safely and contributing to the lessening road toll.

There are approximately 365 women killed yearly by domestic violence and speed is never a factor unless its the drug kind but nowhere near the effort is put into lessening this toll by our governments compared to what is applied to the road toll. The irony here is that these women are totally innocent in almost all cases whereas a lot drivers are contributing factors to their own demise but there's no money in it for governments.

There are many other ways that people die of unnatural causes but the same level of interest isn't shown by our governments. The dollar is a more valuable commodity than life in our present day society.