Why do we pay more for premium fuel?

[zeuss000]

In Saturday's "Courier Mail" motoring advice column "Ask Smithy" the bloke who writes the column claims that

".....we were let in on a little secret and that is that the regular unleaded we are buying is no different to the premium on sale. It seems it's more economical for oil companies to produce one type of fuel instead of two. What they do is guarantee the octane rating of the fuel they produce, in the case of regular unleaded that's 91, whereas premium is a minimum of 95. They don't talk about the maximum octane rating. In that case we are wasting our money buying premium when regular is the same fuel. That was last week, what they do this week is anyone's guess.
Why do we pay more for premium? Simple, clever marketing"

Is this for real guys??

Cheers
Ed

[prydey]

no its not. try running a car designed for 98 on regular 91. it won't like it. it will ping.

i have a modified v8 running aftermarket ecu. it is tuned for 98. if i run anything other than that, it will ping its head off. the premium is definitely higher octane.

fuel companies will always be the subject of conspiracy theorists.

[Fev]

I hope so because it's going to save me $10-20 a week on fuel since the ED is tuned for 98. I did stick 95 in it once when i couldn't find 98. It had no pinging at all and still made 148rwkw (Got the fuel the same day as the dyno comp)

[flappist]

Why do they charge more?

Because they can, we want it and will pay because we want it.......

I would be EXTREMELY surprised if the manufacturing cost of any of the mainstream petrols was higer than the others.

Why do stripes and bulge decals cost $1,000 on a new GT?

[prydey]

Originally Posted by flappist

Why do they charge more?

Because they can, we want it and will pay because we want it.......

I would be EXTREMELY surprised if the manufacturing cost of any of the mainstream petrols was higer than the others.

Why do stripes and bulge decals cost $1,000 on a new GT?

i thought the article was trying to say all fuels have the same/similar octane.

[iCat]

i read this in the herald sun cars guide the other week, and i really dispute it. my ute roared through the 91 octane stuff (i swear i could watch the fuel guage drop) and ran like a pig. premium was always perfect. well as perfect as could be in a pig headed cranky engine.

[Airmon]

Fuel with degrade over time and loose its octane, legally they have to ensure that what they are selling as 91 is at a minimum of 91 by the end of its shelf life (so however often they refill the tank). So your fresh fuel should be of a higher octane then the fuel thats been sitting there in the ground for a week. May even be one of the reasons fuel prices vary.
^This is all just theory, whether this is how they practice or not I can't say.

Try getting 'Regular' Unleaded anyway. Im forced to put Premium in the Carby cars I have because everything is E10.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by prydey

i thought the article was trying to say all fuels have the same/similar octane.

Well technically they may be right. Petrol (all types) has bugger all actual octane in it.

Petrol is a mixture of lots of stuff including from aboute butane throught to past decane. Depending on where it came from there is often lots of heptane and trimethylpentane (aka iso-octane).

There are a squillion articles on the web about it if you need more info.

I think we have a industrial chemist who works with this stuff (and likes towing things ) as a member.

[csv8]

Then throw in the E10 which isn't good for cars or your wallet, despite what the Government says. We are ripped of and no-one will or can do anything about it. In Captain Bligh land,she is making E10 mandatory from December.No more 91. So, you will have to buy E10 ,which uses more to run your car and car loses mpg. You are being forced to use 95 or 98 ,which costs more. Collosion with Bligh and the oil companies???
I was in America last month and paid 80caus a litre.!!!
Yes, we are ripped off and we are expected to accept it !!!!

[Silentsfastcar]

haha, i love this debate about price and being ripped off.. look at the government for the price in australia. they tax it twice. as for the 91 to 98 comparison, 98 does run niceer and last longer in my car - magna v6 ftw :P

[Dauphin]

Every metro / suburban stattion I've ever been has sold what they advertise, as my car will ping under high load on fuel that is less than 98 octane due to the tune.

But in the country and rural areas, it seems that some stations are doing what the writer suggests. I've experienced a few times where I've driven away from the stations after getting 98 octane only to find that the car's pinging like it's 95.

Edit: I complained to the parent company (BP) and they said it's up to the individual franchiser to be responsible for any false advertising. They offered to send a lab tester out there and bill me for it if there was found to be no issue, so I declined.

However, that could have been the fuel ageing issue, as mentioned by Airmon.

[gtfpv]

i dont want to get into this debate , as i think too many people will just make up an opinion , and then pretend they are right .
my FGXR6 runs excellent on E10 . i did put 98 in it once and got less economy , and only mininimally noticed more power , if at all .
the gt asks for 98 so thats what it gets.

[4dlvr]

guys let me clarify some bs. regular(91) will have a minimum rating of 91...
and premium(95) will have a minimum rating of 95..
thats all you need to no. but for those who need to no more here are some facts regarding only major petrol station companies.
both regular and premium produced identically with the same initial which is 95+.
the difference is premium will reach the petrol station sooner and as octane in petrol looses its concentration or deteriorates over time, 91+ may slightly go a tini bit. and 95 does infact have more fuel cleaner additives then 91..

so although the octane difference in octane levels will be minimal, you are getting your moneys worth.

[kinksta]

My G6E turbo runs perfectly fine on 91. Use it most of the time.

At the moment I'm trying premiumax (100) from liberty and still the same. I went to get Ultimate (98) today but the price has gone up 20c compared to yesterday.

Don't you love the price cycle!?

[ltd]

I know why it's more expensive; they get a volume discount on the red dye as opposed to the yellow dye in the premium.

Seriously though, I ran E10 in the G6 and it ran like poo. Even dropped idle a few times at lights. Put premium back in it and all good.

[ebxr8240]

E10, can run alittle rough with no load and light cruze..
I mix my fuels on my turbo cars.. Buy depending on pump prices...
On interstate driving I find there's sweet all difference with E10 in the way the engine behaves.. But there's no loss of power..

[JimNiki]

guys, has anyone tried those octane pills you chuck in the tank ...
do they make a discernible difference? or more snake oil...

[RAREV8]

I run E10 in my G6 all the time and have racked up 60+k this year with not one issue at all.
My older V8's have always used BP 98 / Shell 100 RON (no noticeable gain) or Mobil 98. Anything less than this and pinging is a real issue unless i add an octane booster.
Most modern cars (G6) are designed to run perfectly well on E10 and I have never had an issue with E10 or any 91 RON fuel in any of my new cars (5 in the last 5 years)
Really interesting to know that the octane deteriorates over time- good info!

[Yellow_Festiva]

I think the only time a servo sells 91RON with the same / similar RON as premium is when the guy pumping the stuff into the underground tanks makes a mistake.

I have owned several vehicles over the last few years that ran on various fuel grades and putting in lower than recommended often resulted in a noticeable drop in performance and economy.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by RAREV8

Most modern cars (G6) are designed to run perfectly well on E10 and I have never had an issue with E10 or any 91 RON fuel in any of my new cars (5 in the last 5 years)

Ford says that any EFI Falcon can run E10.

Mind you don't get what the E10 bashing has to do with premium fuels.

[flappist]

I read somewhere that if you are running E10 in a high performance vehicle something must be retarded.

Surely something to do with the engine........of course..

[ebxr8240]

E10 can take more timing in my case..
Ethanol is added to high octane along with other additives...

[AussieAV]

Interesting about fuel loosing its octane rating over time.
Just how quick does it happen?
Are we talking a couple of points per week or is it quicker/slower than that?
Would it mean that if a car requiring 98 only does low kms you'd be better off doing regular 1/2 or 1/4 tank fills, rather than complete fills every 2-3 weeks?

[burnz]

Originally Posted by JimNiki

guys, has anyone tried those octane pills you chuck in the tank ...
do they make a discernible difference? or more snake oil...

your not thinking of the old moth balls/ camphor blocks are you??

yes they do work provided they are made of naptholene..

[Airmon]

Originally Posted by AussieAV

Interesting about fuel loosing its octane rating over time.
Just how quick does it happen?
Are we talking a couple of points per week or is it quicker/slower than that?
Would it mean that if a car requiring 98 only does low kms you'd be better off doing regular 1/2 or 1/4 tank fills, rather than complete fills every 2-3 weeks?

Its going to depend on the fuel and how its stored and for how long.
The fuel at a petrol station, stored sealer under ground will last for yonks. But in a car its a bit different.

Someone could probably put a definite figure on it, but it probably wouldnt be noticeable for a number of weeks. 98 would probably last longer then 91 just due to its components.
Ive noticed in one car we have that sits around, if you dont drive it for say 3-4 weeks without refilling the tank it will misfire and ping a fair bit compared to new fuel. Thats on 91, but if you put 98 in it and leave it sitting it goes fine.

[XR Martin]

Pretty sure the ethanol blends go off real quick because they absorb water.

[yanknbank]

It costs the the oil companies a fraction of a cent to refine their product from 91 to 98 octane. I reflect on this every time I pump 98 PULP into the G6ET and pay an extra 15/20 cents per litre for the warm fuzzy feeling it gives me.
Ripped off ? Maybe, but not as bad as what one is asked to pay for avgas. Rip-off indeed.

p.s. .... There's 98 PULP and then there's 98 PULP. I'd been filling up with 98 PULP from United for quite some time and awhile ago tried 98 PULP Vortex from BP.
The difference and superiority of the BP blend was siginificant and noticed immediately. The pick up in performance was suprising and definitely a lot smoother with a more fluid feel to the way the engine was delivering it's power.
I think I've said elsewhere on these forums that it didn't matter what fuel was being used or where it came from, they were pretty much all the same. I was wrong.
Well done BP. Still not sure about the price though.

[FgNewbie]

Interesting that no one has mentioned that premium fuels supposedly have more detergents / additives. Does this account for any price difference?

My marine mechanic told me I not to run 98 in my old outboard motor.

Conversely, back when I had an XE, occassionally my mechanic would add something to clean out the injectors. Years later when I had a problem with an EL, my mechanic at the time told me I should use high octane because of the "cleaners" in it. I forget the specifics of his recommendation. My current mechanic must have shares in Caltex, he was dishing out Caltex Techron like water.

[seduced_xr]

i dont need to know how it works, but my BA XR6 runs like crap on 91.

[paule11]

Originally Posted by seduced_xr

i dont need to know how it works, but my BA XR6 runs like crap on 91.

OUr bfxr6 is the same harder to start and doesnt idle as well .Acceleration wise I think its similar