Want Proof Speed Cameras are nothing more than Revenue Raisers??

[csv8]

"THE Palaszczuk Government is banking on a fines and forfeiture bonanza to raise an extra $82 million this financial year.

And with police to receive an extra $16.3 million for new fixed and mobile speed cameras, that figure could be even higher."
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/q...-1227441913107
My Comment : I have nothing against speed cameras only how they are used..If they are used as originally intended, ok. But they are not....

[simon varley]

as long as the revenue is included in the budget they cannot be about road safety. If that was truly the intent, then the forecast income should be $0

[blackf6]

All the fines should be put towards road safety campaigns and driver training in schools, then the whole system would have credibility.

[mtbkym01]

Australian Police would make a killing here in Canada, on the highways/freeways here, most seem to do ATLEAST 20km/h above the posted limits, took a while to get used to it, now I hope I don't follow the trend back home in a week

[cheap]

And when the coppers fail to met the revenue targets, they will reduce the tolerances to 0 km/hr.

[Mowdit]

Originally Posted by DeJaVu GT

All the fines should be put towards road safety campaigns and driver training in schools, then the whole system would have credibility.

And improving roads in know risk area's

Tolerances should be raised, not reduced.
Catching a fool speeding and being a high risk is one thing, booking Nana for keeping up with traffic flow at 3kph over is a rort

In Australia our political system sux, they ALL should be sacked.
Show your disgust next election, DONT VOTE (or donkey it) !!!!

[Tom Tucker]

This is straight up misappropriation of law enforcement by a fascist government with an outrageous attitude towards the citizens and road users it's meant to serve.

How is this sort of **** even constitutional?

[zilo]

Originally Posted by Mowdit

Show your disgust next election, DONT VOTE (or donkey it) !!!!

Your advice exhibits a clear and complete misunderstanding of the consequences of a donkey vote

Best way to ensure that you don't get the best outcome is a donkey vote.

[Pedro]

Originally Posted by csv8

"THE Palaszczuk Government is banking on a fines and forfeiture bonanza to raise an extra $82 million this financial year.

And with police to receive an extra $16.3 million for new fixed and mobile speed cameras, that figure could be even higher."
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/q...-1227441913107
My Comment : I have nothing against speed cameras only how they are used..If they are used as originally intended, ok. But they are not....

My agreement with you about these revenue raising cameras is confirmed in the many threads on this subject.
But going off on a tangent now, I have to say I am disgusted that the present Premier of Qld has convinced the media that her Chardonnay Left name is pronounced "Pallachais". The correct Polish pronunciation is "Pallachuck".

[b0son]

Palashchook.... I can't see how the hell it could ever be Pallachais. Was she taking the ****?

[Falcon Coupe]

Originally Posted by Tom Tucker

This is straight up misappropriation of law enforcement by a fascist government with an outrageous attitude towards the citizens and road users it's meant to serve.

How is this sort of **** even constitutional?

Ollie agrees Tom.

[Tom Tucker]

Thanks Ollie.

Up next, the explosion in sales of push bikes, the faster way to travel thousands of kilometres around Australia whilst staying out of prison.

[Spurious]

Originally Posted by Tom Tucker

Thanks Ollie.

Up next, the explosion in sales of push bikes, the faster way to travel thousands of kilometres around Australia whilst staying out of prison.

...then later, A & E in meltdown after record number of cyclists descend on hospitals after encounters with motor vehicles.

...but first, the weather, 'cause nobody really gives a s... about current affairs!!!

[tapeworm]

Would prefer to make my donations to charity rather than the Gov. This would be another way to move away from the revenue raising fact it is now

[XB GS 351 Coupe]

Originally Posted by simon varley

as long as the revenue is included in the budget they cannot be about road safety. If that was truly the intent, then the forecast income should be $0

But the Government is smart enough to know that the general population is stupid and don't pay attention to the road around them, anyone that has an ounce of intelligence and even casually takes note of their surroundings when driving will never pay a speed camera fine.

I average 1400-2000km per week of driving every week and generally spot a speed camera miles before you ever get to it.

The way I see it if you get caught by a speed camera you deserve to pay, as obviously you were speeding AND not paying attention to what is right in front of you, the sort of driver I really don't want to be sharing the road with.

[lucas2]

Except for Victoria where our mobile speed cameras are much more covert than other states. After a while you learn to slow down when you spot any Captiva, Outlander, VE/F wagon and occasional Territory parked on the side of the road.

[Tom Tucker]

Originally Posted by XB GS 351 Coupe

The way I see it if you get caught by a speed camera you deserve to pay, as obviously you were speeding AND not paying attention to what is right in front of you, the sort of driver I really don't want to be sharing the road with.

We're very far apart on this one.

I've never been caught by a speed camera, but self rightiousness doesn't interfere with my contempt for the principles involved here.

This is a case of a government using tax payer money to fund improvements to an optional road user tax, by making it less optional. And they're calling the scheme "road safety", as if they're doing the community a favor. It's absurd

[LTDHO]

It's nothing new. The public have accepted this, no matter how hard the government forces "Safety Camera" at us.

The strange thing is, when watching "highway patrol", I am surprised the penalties for a lot of driving infringements are so low. These are fines that actually required an officer or two. Not very economical!

[csv8]

Pedro..Pallachais". sounds better than "Pallachuck".!!!!!

[Harrison]

Yeah but - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQaOSgf7uk4

[XB GS 351 Coupe]

Originally Posted by Tom Tucker

We're very far apart on this one.

I've never been caught by a speed camera, but self rightiousness doesn't interfere with my contempt for the principles involved here.

This is a case of a government using tax payer money to fund improvements to an optional road user tax, by making it less optional. And they're calling the scheme "road safety", as if they're doing the community a favor. It's absurd

There are no principles at work, I think most people read too much into it, and some commenters probably get around in tin foil hats.

They are a device installed in an attempt to control a problem, the camera detects inattentive speeding drivers and issues them with monetary fines.

Inattentive and speeding is a very dangerous combination IMO.

People can still be happily speeding along and pay attention to the road and never get caught. I am quite happy for these cameras as they catch people who probably should not be on the road anyway, remember you have to be doing at least TWO things wrong to be caught and fined, the most important IMO is not the speeding itself, but being so inattentive to the road while speeding that you don't see what is right in front of you. I bet they could put flashing amber lights and neon signs with speed cameras and people would still get caught and complain about it

The complainers call them revenue raisers, What else are they supposed to do?? Ok, lets not fine people, lets just take their license away, what would people say then?? Or may be send them a letter to present themselves in the town square to receive ten lashes with a cat of nine tails

I would rather inattentive and law breaking drivers pay these fines than me having to pay more income tax, This way I get a choice whether or not I want to make additional contributions to the Governments income...I choose no.....its an easy decision and a no brainer for me, many others obviously feel happy to make extra contributions and pay the stupidity tax.

At the end of the day every person is in control of their own actions and when you do get fined it is your own personal actions and decisions that have caused your situation, no one else is at fault no matter how much you try to blame others for your situation.

[Dr Terry]

What only $82 million for the whole state ? Your coppers aren't trying hard enough.

The Sydney City Council that governs the CDB only, plus a few small inner city areas got $79 million in parking fines alone last year, plus another $80 million for parking fees & licenses for inner city parking areas.

I realise that one is speed revenue & the other is parking, but the I find comparison amazing.

We have 3 different types of speed traps in NSW, I don't know what the earn is, for all 3 combined, but it would be in the 100s of $millions.

Dr Terry

[Dr Terry]

Originally Posted by XB GS 351 Coupe

There are no principles at work, I think most people read too much into it, and some commenters probably get around in tin foil hats.

They are a device installed in an attempt to control a problem, the camera detects inattentive speeding drivers and issues them with monetary fines.

Inattentive and speeding is a very dangerous combination IMO.

People can still be happily speeding along and pay attention to the road and never get caught. I am quite happy for these cameras as they catch people who probably should not be on the road anyway, remember you have to be doing at least TWO things wrong to be caught and fined, the most important IMO is not the speeding itself, but being so inattentive to the road while speeding that you don't see what is right in front of you. I bet they could put flashing amber lights and neon signs with speed cameras and people would still get caught and complain about it

The complainers call them revenue raisers, What else are they supposed to do?? Ok, lets not fine people, lets just take their license away, what would people say then?? Or may be send them a letter to present themselves in the town square to receive ten lashes with a cat of nine tails

I would rather inattentive and law breaking drivers pay these fines than me having to pay more income tax, This way I get a choice whether or not I want to make additional contributions to the Governments income...I choose no.....its an easy decision and a no brainer for me, many others obviously feel happy to make extra contributions and pay the stupidity tax.

At the end of the day every person is in control of their own actions and when you do get fined it is your own personal actions and decisions that have caused your situation, no one else is at fault no matter how much you try to blame others for your situation.

This would be all well & good IF the speed limits were appropriate for the circumstance & road condition, but they are far from it.

Also, the fines them selves are way out of proportion to the offence committed.

I believe in making fines realistic, not burning someone several days pay for speeding a small amount over the limit. I think that demerit points are more effective.

I'm sure if you had been driving in Sydney with your "I've never gone over the speed limit in my life" attitude, you would be easily caught out.

Since they've put the mobile speed cameras out to private tender, the lines are very much blurred on getting caught. Their standard stunt is to find an area where the limit is artificially low & the park their vehicle or "rearrange" some tree branches, so that the speed limit sign cannot be seen. They then park their car obscurely & not put their signs where they should. Who's going to go thru the court system to fight that.

Any driver not familiar with that particular street & not being the sign will wrongly assume that it's a 60 or 80 km/h zone, much the same as the surrounding area. But of course it's a 50 or 40 zone, so your a gonna.

I've got a good driving record of over 45 years, with currently no demerit points, but I could be caught with that scenario, as many people have.

Dr Terry

[XB GS 351 Coupe]

Originally Posted by Dr Terry

This would be all well & good IF the speed limits were appropriate for the circumstance & road condition, but they are far from it.

Also, the fines them selves are way out of proportion to the offence committed.

I believe in making fines realistic, not burning someone several days pay for speeding a small amount over the limit. I think that demerit points are more effective.

I'm sure if you had been driving in Sydney with your "I've never gone over the speed limit in my life" attitude, you would be easily caught out.

Since they've put the mobile speed cameras out to private tender, the lines are very much blurred on getting caught. Their standard stunt is to find an area where the limit is artificially low & the park their vehicle or "rearrange" some tree branches, so that the speed limit sign cannot be seen. They then park their car obscurely & not put their signs where they should. Who's going to go thru the court system to fight that.

Dr Terry

Whether or not speed limits are appropriate is irrelevant and another discussion all together, speed limits are made with the lowest common denominator driver in mind.

Akk this comes back to driver attention. Again you have to be doing AT LEAST TWO THINGS WRONG TO GET CAUGHT, you must be breaking the law (Speeding in this case) and you must not be paying attention to your surroundings, and when driving on unfamiliar roads your attention should be higher and speed lower as you are not familiar with the area and prevailing road conditions and hazzards.

You can argue till you are blue in the face, but who ever gets caught (and it might be me one day) has no recourse, it is your actions and inactions that have resulted in the fine.

It is not your decision to make wether or not speed limits in an area are appropriate, that decision is made for you. If you are not happy with that, then there is other options such as walking, catching a bus or train. There is no hurry, it's not a race, the speed limit is the limit, the limit has to be something and no matter what it is someone will not be happy with it, there is no need to be on the limit, you don't live the rest of your lift on the limit.

You could make the speed limit 150m/hr and people will be doing 160 and complain that the limit is too low and not appropriate as their car could easily do 200km/hr.

It is what it is, it is now up to every driver to make a decision each time they get behind a wheel, it's an easy one for me, but other make the wrong one and then complain when it does not work out in their favour.

And clearly the fines are not high enough, as clearly they are not a deterrent for hundreds of thousands of people, as they still speed everywhere, so arguing that fines are too high is just a pointless argument, as clearly they are not high enough to modify a lot of drivers behaviour and decision making processes.

[Trevor 57]

I got an idea on how you can **** up their budget hehehehehe - don't speed.

[You Yangs]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

I got an idea on how you can **** up their budget hehehehehe - don't speed.

Trev wins at the internet today, close thread now.
Simple problem solving is remove the root cause, if you don't speed then you remove the root cause of the problem.
Problem solved means nothing to complain about, only people who complain about speed cameras are the ones who get caught!!!

[JAJH]

Originally Posted by XB GS 351 Coupe

. Again you have to be doing AT LEAST TWO THINGS WRONG TO GET CAUGHT, you must be breaking the law (Speeding in this case) and you must not be paying attention to your surroundings, and when driving on unfamiliar roads your attention should be higher and speed lower as you are not familiar with the area and prevailing road conditions and hazzards.

You can argue till you are blue in the face, but who ever gets caught (and it might be me one day) has no recourse, it is your actions and inactions that have resulted in the fine.

And clearly the fines are not high enough, as clearly they are not a deterrent for hundreds of thousands of people, as they still speed everywhere, so arguing that fines are too high is just a pointless argument, as clearly they are not high enough to modify a lot of drivers behaviour and decision making processes.

I think your approach is grossly over-simplistic. To take the attitude you must be doing 2 things wrong is just not correct. As an ex-copper, I can assure anyone here I have more training than most road users. And that training isn't just because I can drive a police car. I have done Advanced Police Driver training and would consider my awareness on the road better than most, however I agree with you on certain points. If you are travelling on familiar roads and you may know where the local police may set their radar traps or you know where the speed cameras are located then yes, you have no-one but yourself to blame. But when travelling unfamiliar roads just simply moving with the flow of traffic and getting pinged for a handful of klms over the limit, that's not not good policing, that's just revenue raising. There is many instances where is it safe to travel at higher than the signposted limit and there are just as many instances where it is unsafe to travel at or below the signposted speed limit. We have all been stuck behind the truck or caravan doing 80 in a 100 zone who is just as dangerous as the idiot doing 140 in peak hour traffic. The problem is it's almost impossible trying to police the slow driver.

[Dr Terry]

Originally Posted by XB GS 351 Coupe

Whether or not speed limits are appropriate is irrelevant and another discussion all together, speed limits are made with the lowest common denominator driver in mind.

This is patently untrue !

How can you say that inappropriate speed limits are irrelevant ?

There are many roads around Sydney that had much higher speed limits years ago. Back when the roads were not much better than single lane goat tracks & cars had crap steering & brakes.

Move forward now to 2015 where even the cheapest 4-cyl shopping trollies have ABS & stability control, with good brakes & good steering (relatively speaking). That single lane goat track is now a 4 to 6 lane arterial, well-lit & beautifully surfaced, kerbed & guttered. Which part of that includes "the lowest common denominator". Are today's drivers really that much worse ?

The roads which had 45 mph (72.7 km/h) limits, often now have 60, 50 or even 40 km/h limits on them, for no obvious "road safety" reasons. It's far easier to legislate 60 & 40 km speed limits over a blanket area, than actually correct place sensible speed limit signage.

Isn't it funny that the revenue is also substantially greater, by using this method.

Having said that, I notice in recent years, with our new state government, that speed limits along some of the more major arterials or now more uniform, to match the road type. Not that long ago, you could travel along one stretch & go thru 20 or more speed limit changes in a moderately short distance, for no obvious reason.

Dr Terry

[FPV+fteT3]

On another note in NSW at the moment more money must be coming from the numberplate recognition cameras than radar speed detection on the HWY. I passed 4 x HWP all parked at various locations including on the median today between Newcastle and Port Macquarie and only one indicated an alert for active radar, no laser so must be concentrating on unreg and un insured at the moment more $$$ in that fine.

Any way more news from Qld.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/comm...14-gicdok.html

Since when was the solution to the problem of signs that were too small and difficult to see, to replace them with no signs at all? When they alert you to the presence of a police mobile speed camera, of course!
At least that is the excuse given by Queensland Police for eliminating signs warning drivers of a "Speed camera in use."
Inspector Alan Hales, the head of the Road Policing Command, said people had complained the signs were too small.
Now there are no signs at all.
Cynics might say that the decision, which took effect on July 1, might not be wholly unrelated to the increase in speeding fines that took place on the same day. Those cynics would be right.
According to the Queensland Government's webpage on speed and red light cameras, the money received is used to pay for road safety. The Queensland Government spent $65.9m of speed camera revenue on road improvements in 2013-14, with a further $8m on road safety awareness, and a little under $5m on other hospital and injury programmes.
However that's a small slice of the revenue they receive. Governments of all persuasions are coy about speed camera revenue, but motor vehicle insurer Allianz estimated Queensland Government revenue from speeding fines at some $300m in 2011-12.
With increases in speeding fines, and more speed cameras, the current revenue will be much, much higher. That being the case, one would have thought there was little reason to be sneaky about it as well.
Of course, the advantage to being sneaky is that it will be harder for people to call in the location of speed cameras to those helpful people on radio stations, who then tell the rest of us where they are.
No doubt there are some readers who are vehemently disagreeing with me at this point, and saying that if people speed they should be fined. That is indeed the law, but is the point of the traffic laws to punish people and raise revenue, or to prevent accidents? If it is to prevent accidents, then we should be open and honest about the enforcement of speed limits.
This gets us back to the location of police speed traps. According to police, they are located at places where there are frequent accidents.
The truth is they are often at the bottom of inclines, even slight ones, where people can creep a couple of kilometres an hour over the speed limit without intending to do so. The beginning of Coronation Drive after the Go Between Bridge is a favourite haunt.
And police certainly love roads where the speed limit changes. The ICB is a favourite. Westbound traffic has a 70 km/h zone, which drops to 60 km/h after the Clem 7 entrance, then goes back up to 70 km/h before the entrance to the Legacy Way, only to drop down to 60 km/h again barely 400m later. The Road Policing Command loves it.
In the 1990s I spent three years as Chairman of the Road Black Spot Consultative Committee. Every year I'd get a list of the worst accident sites in Queensland and I'd frequently drive out to inspect them. I never saw a police speed trap at a traffic black spot, but I'd see a lot of them on safe locations along the way.
That's the problem. The emphasis is on making money, not preventing accidents. And the more police indulge in sneakiness to maximise fines, the less confidence the public will have in their road safety programme.

[noflac52]

[QUOTE=XB GS 351 Coupe;5437988]There are no principles at work, I think most people read too much into it, and some commenters probably get around in tin foil hats.

There are always principles involved when a government imposes taxes and levies on a population and the main principle here is that this tax is rather fraudulent because it is disguised as " road safety" which in the majority of incidents its is clearly not.

You are missing the point when you go on about how drivers are fined for speeding because they are not paying attention. Its not the fact that drivers are being caught out that is relevant it is the fact that they are paying fines under false pretences that is the debate here.

Just because you think that these drivers are stupid and you are not does not in anyway make the fraudulent practice of fining people under the present system right.

It actually has very little to do with the way people drive it has everything to do with using the motoring public as a cash cow under false pretences.

There are some very important principles involved here!