FT army

**fordomatic** · 12-08-2007, 03:32 PM

i don't know how many people are in the army on these forums but i just found a ripper site. FTArmy.com. it informs all readers how soft the army is now and how they treat us like a number, and only care about recruiting not keeping the current diggers. Don't get me wrong i like the army, but everything on this site is so true.

**fordomatic** · 12-08-2007, 03:33 PM

bugger wrong place sorry fellas

savagE · 12-08-2007, 07:37 PM

Apparently its mainly full of really salty old diggers.

WPN XR6T · 12-08-2007, 08:25 PM

No, just full of disgruntled POG pricks that wouldn't know hard if it bit them on the a$$. It's basicly a place people go and complain online to make themselves feel better. You would be suprised as to the wanna be freaks that get on there and have never been in the military.

Green X · 12-08-2007, 10:00 PM

Are you in the Army??

I know a few Ex army people and i wouldn't go saying it is soft, they all got ****ed of with the pay and all the Bullshit and that's why they left not cause it was too soft. I work with a Ex Para shoot infantry Guy, Says nothing these guys (Work) chuck at him compares to the stuff he had to do in the Army.

steamin63 · 12-08-2007, 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WPN XR6T

No, just full of disgruntled POG pricks that wouldn't know hard if it bit them on the a$$. It's basicly a place people go and complain online to make themselves feel better. You would be suprised as to the wanna be freaks that get on there and have never been in the military.

what gives you the insight to know what todays soldiers go through.i served in the regs for 10 years [2 CAV-2/14 LH], took discharge as a sargeant [troop comander], my best mates son is currently serving in 3 RAR and my godson is currently serving in IRAQ. so i like to think i've got an idea about what it was like then and what it is like now. we didn't have to go through half the feel good, politicized, bullsh!t they go through these days.. what experience have you got,posted to 1RTB ?, as what ?,WAFTAM or REG ?

**fordomatic** · 13-08-2007, 12:21 AM

mate i'm a grunt in the army ara and am currenly serving overseas, and it is so soft now it is en stupid. Don't get me wrong we train really hard as infantry, it's the stupid rules they come up with and the way THEY treat you. I love the army but i feel that with all this hype about recruiting and stuff they should concentrate on keeping people in that they have now. If they do this they will have a battalion full of senior diggers instead of one full of dubes. An example of soft is at Kapooka now there is only a 5km pack march, when i went through we did a 15km one and at the school of infantry a 25km march with a 10km stretcher carry included carrying approx 60kg on our backs after being out bush for 2 weeks eating ration packs. another example, corporals are not allowed to yell at recruits face to face anymore as a recruit complained he got spit in his eye WTF. And now recruits carry a red card and if they think they are being yelled at too much they can hold up the red card. THIS IS SOFT. Don't get me wrong i think i had it allot easier than people that went through training 10 or so years ago. But when i finished kapooka i felt proud of myself for what i had achieved now it seems a little different. I think iv'e waffled a bit but to hell with that, i feel better now ive got that off my chest. steamin63 i think you summed it up in one.

red_hotxr6 · 13-08-2007, 07:50 AM

My husbands nephew just came back from east timor after 6 months and got just over $40,000.00 doesnt seem to shabby too me, and he was a linesman.

sprjenkins · 13-08-2007, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fordomatic

mate i'm a grunt in the army ara and am currenly serving overseas, and it is so soft now it is en stupid. Don't get me wrong we train really hard as infantry, it's the stupid rules they come up with and the way THEY treat you. I love the army but i feel that with all this hype about recruiting and stuff they should concentrate on keeping people in that they have now. If they do this they will have a battalion full of senior diggers instead of one full of dubes. An example of soft is at Kapooka now there is only a 5km pack march, when i went through we did a 15km one and at the school of infantry a 25km march with a 10km stretcher carry included carrying approx 60kg on our backs after being out bush for 2 weeks eating ration packs. another example, corporals are not allowed to yell at recruits face to face anymore as a recruit complained he got spit in his eye WTF. And now recruits carry a red card and if they think they are being yelled at too much they can hold up the red card. THIS IS SOFT. Don't get me wrong i think i had it allot easier than people that went through training 10 or so years ago. But when i finished kapooka i felt proud of myself for what i had achieved now it seems a little different. I think iv'e waffled a bit but to hell with that, i feel better now ive got that off my chest. steamin63 i think you summed it up in one.

I don't know when you went through kapooka but when I went through in '03 we had this red card, but mate, you can't go pulling out your red card and going "excuse me corporal i'm being yelled at to much", you'd get smashed. We still got yelled at in the face and we still got punished. One bloke from the platoon above us even got himself buttstroked at bayonet practice.

Sure there is more OH&S stuff these days but mate, its not soft. They still do CFA's at the school of infantry as far as I know and when I went to RCB we did more than one CFA there, one of our blokes even ran the CFA with two 58's.

terra australis · 13-08-2007, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by red_hotxr6

My husbands nephew just came back from east timor after 6 months and got just over $40,000.00 doesnt seem to shabby too me, and he was a linesman.

But I guess you have to question is 40k enough considering the conditions of deployment.

To put it in perspective hubby earns approximately the same amount in three months and the most dangerous thing that happens to him is a papercut.

Gimmers55 · 13-08-2007, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by terra australis

But I guess you have to question is 40k enough considering the conditions of deployment.

To put it in perspective hubby earns approximately the same amount in three months and the most dangerous thing that happens to him is a papercut.

I think she meant 40K on top of his usual salary. BTW, the 40K was tax free.

red_hotxr6 · 13-08-2007, 07:51 PM

And Adam is only 20 years old, so that is dam good pay.

**fordomatic** · 13-08-2007, 07:58 PM

Gimmers55 No not on top, timor will get you about 44000 in total for a 6 month trip. But every cent of that money is earnt.
sprjenkins: yeh still do cfa's at singo and at the end do around 25km with a heap of stands thrown in like obs course, bayonet assault course, section attacks etc,etc. This is not what i'm saying is soft it's the rules and regulations that are. Ask any person that is currenly serving and they will tell you that the army today is changing for the worst, especially people that have been in for over 8 years.

WPN XR6T · 13-08-2007, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steamin63

what gives you the insight to know what todays soldiers go through.i served in the regs for 10 years [2 CAV-2/14 LH], took discharge as a sargeant [troop comander], my best mates son is currently serving in 3 RAR and my godson is currently serving in IRAQ. so i like to think i've got an idea about what it was like then and what it is like now. we didn't have to go through half the feel good, politicized, bullsh!t they go through these days.. what experience have you got,posted to 1RTB ?, as what ?,WAFTAM or REG ?

Yep Champ, good call. What insight? 7 years as an Mechinised Combat Engineer with multible deployments, 2 International exchanges and 2 years as an RI. And a Sargent Troop Commander, eh? Must have been at 2/14 at the time?

Yes, the standards for Recruits has dropped, and the training here at Kapooka has to reflect that. However, Recruit training is NOT designed to produce effective soldiers, it is designed to produce the standard of Trainee that can go onto successfully complete their Initial Employment Training.

That is the reason that you are not deamed "Profitient" until you have completed at least 12 months in a Unit.

As for the feelgood stuff, lets face it, the military is part of the Public Service, and as such, has an obligation under law to provide these services. No one takes it at all too seriously and I don't think it shows weakness, it just demonsrates that Army has to change in the face of a changing society.

The Australian Army currently sits as the Second highest paid Army in the world, and is poised to go through a series of changes as far as Retention benefits and conditions of service go, but there will always be those who in hindsight think it was tougher in there day, as there will always be those who wish to complain. To them I say come up with a better solution and present it, that, or quite whining, shut you mouth and step up to the plate, champ, because if you don't no one else will!

Cheers
Matt Walters
CPL
ARTC

terra australis · 13-08-2007, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gimmers55

I think she meant 40K on top of his usual salary. BTW, the 40K was tax free.

40k would include his pay, deployment allowance for timor and yep I realise that would be tax free...

Still does not solve the papercut issue....

:

**fordomatic** · 13-08-2007, 08:44 PM

WPNXR6T, the standard at Kapooka has dropped yes, but i don't know how a pouge course in ordanace and a year posted somewhere will make him a confident and profesional soldier.

**fordomatic** · 13-08-2007, 08:48 PM

By the way very well said post WPNXR6T, there will always be whinging (i have to watch my swearing here) F@#$^%*. I was just bringing up a point though which is very true. If the army has to change with society (which it is) good for it but the standards are dropping, even you said that yourself.

WPN XR6T · 13-08-2007, 09:14 PM

Yes, and it is one of the most disheartening things about being a Recruit Instructor. But as an RI we have a very clearly defined laft and right of ark when it comes to instruction.

The lower standards were put in place so as to broaden the demographic from which Defence Force Recruiting (DFR) had to choose from as potential recruit candidates. Astmha suffers and people with unfit BMI's are now common place in Recruit training. This was done so as to let Army grow.

The fitness standards where deamed too high with these Recruits as the Injury rates moved into unacceptable territory, and the PT program and standards were lowered as a result. Whilst I personally don't belive this is a good long term solution, (but I'm just a CPL, what would I know...) it meets the goals currently set by Land Command and is here to stay at this stage.

Kapooka should not be seen as the standard to be set by all of Army, it is the first step in the process of been trained in the skill of Arms. What happens after they leave here is up to the respective Corps schools and the Units the are posted to.

It is up to the indervidual Soldier to maintain their personal standards not only taught here, but at their IET's, their Units and their specialist courses, and to set the standard for junior Soldiers. The last point being the big one ATM, as I think that senior soldiers all too often neglect this role of mentor, and junior soldiers just become disgruntled and disheartened before they learn their true worth within their own orginization.

Rooster · 13-08-2007, 09:15 PM

yeah, hat off to you Matt.
if i had any kind of decent grasp on the engrish language i may have attempted a reply in that vain.
to all and sundry, put the uniform on, where the flag on your sleeve, do it for the mate next to you, 'cos he'd do the same. when you wipe your face clean of the blood and dirt and tears of joy and loss, then come back with the humilty and spirit of the diggers forged before us, and then and only then will you know. and if you don't know what i am talking about, maybe you never will and maybe that is your blessing.

by the way Matt, you working with George Griffin or Janette Seabrook or Troy Pitt?

**fordomatic** · 13-08-2007, 09:41 PM

WPNXR6T that last paragraph was a ripper, as it is so true. I do hope though once recruiting have got the number of recruits required, the standards do go back to the way they were (highly doubtful). Another good point is that if the corporal can't be stuffed at 1RTB to teach there section why they are there, the standard of that section will definately suffer. anyways that's enough from me (what would i know i'm only a digger lol)

steamin63 · 14-08-2007, 01:41 AM

yes champ it was 2/14 ,formerly known as 3 cav before we got bastardized by intergration with the chocko's [so don't give me that grunt v's bucket v's dropshort rubbish]. i got out when the rot started [1990]. the grommets that were coming through the system were abbismal . the enlistment standards [medical & psycological] had been lowered, male and female intergration at 1rtb , intergration of reg and ares units , funding cuts and a total change in the culture of the army. i joined the army because it was a way of life . honour , integrity , pride , service. not a pay packet. when i got back from my two deployments overseas i didn't get a pocket full of tax free quid ,i got 1 extra week annual leave . my uncle did 2 tours of vietnam ,my dad signed up to go to korea ,and my grandad signed up to fight the japs in png. why ? to serve their country . thats why i and most of my mates joined . we never fired a shot in anger thank god but we would of if we had to because it was our duty.
i agree with what you say about the standards being lower but how low can they go before we end up with an army thats to soft to do the job required. as for your comments about the senior nco's [and senior officers]you are dead on target , go back 17 years when i got out and they were the grommets i was talking about earlier.
the solution, raise the standards , quality over quantity. pay them well , equip them with the best [not second hand crap the yanks overcharge us for], give them pride [ they are the best society has to offer ] and as for being part of the public service ,that is an insult . the ADF are defenders of our way of life and should be set apart from the rest of us mere civilians.yes i know it's not politically correct . BFD. you need hard men to do a hard job.
no one loves a soldier until the enemy are battering at the gates.
and yes i'll step up to the plate

WPN XR6T · 14-08-2007, 03:59 PM

My old man got out about the same time as you, streamin63, and for all the same reasons, after 24 years, he was basicly shat on and had had enough.

I think the great shining hope with this system we currently have in place is that the Soldiers will develop the skills and knowledge required of them despite the initial low standard. But with the current operational tempo, will it be soon enough?

Nobody likes the public service, and like the Tax Department, nobody ever will. But the fact of the matter is that they set the standard for all Govenment jobs, so we are subject to them.

A carrer in the Defence of ones country should be a big draw card to young Australian everywhere, but it seams as the reality of the prospect of being killed to achive that task is a bigger deal to them now more then ever. And that is what is letting the side down, a lack of reality of what we are here to do. Kill the Enemy. Seak out and destroy him. Seize and hold Ground. Regarless of Season, Weather or Xbox...

MO · 14-08-2007, 10:38 PM

The ADF no matter which branch..your nothing but a number..was true in 60s when I was in is true now.

As for standards don't really know but if what I've read here is close to truth then all I can say is god help us...hello viet...sorry hello 51state.

Guys have the standards really dropped that much?

I mean when I was in you did f/u it was full pack weapon at high port 10 times at run round parade ground there were 10/20/30 k route marches full gear.

Things change but hell is this for the better that I'm reading.

Just for info was RAAF and when I was in I know ARMY did it tougher.

Envious · 14-08-2007, 10:44 PM

that site is the biggest bucket of puss ive ever seen. People whinging cause they wanted to get out before their time was up cause they couldnt hack it but the army wouldnt let them go. Weak.

fordomatic, what unit you in mate? how long you been in now?

MO · 14-08-2007, 10:52 PM

Whats with this red card routine...bloody hell in my time like above...f/u drop and give me twenty..has this gone too..along with the rest of good discipline and training.

What a cpl instructor cant yell at the recruits anymore...cant give out the usual insults etc to toughen them up whats it come to....!!!

**fordomatic** · 15-08-2007, 02:05 PM

envious, IRAR mate only been in a year and a half (yes a dube lol). I thought the site had a few emails which were interesting but yes allot of rubbish is on there.

MO: punishment is no longer allowed so now it's called extra training. eg: if you up, " PTE blah blah your pushup standards have gone to you require additional training, 500 push ups" I got that one the other day from me sarg for wearin sunnies on me head lol. Even though training command seems to have changed standards alot in the last year or so, (from what iv'e done) once you get to your unit that's when the hard work starts on battalion exercises, pre deployment training etc etc. This is for infantry don't know what othere corps are like.

WPN XR6T · 15-08-2007, 06:36 PM

Oh yes, in Units it's a different story. Army is still Army and you do NOT want to be the guy who gets caught doing the wrong thing. You still train to fight and fight to win, that has never changed.

The Red Card system was first introduced as a means of helping Recruits deal with the change of lifestyle stresses that are assosiated with Recruit training. I was not involved with the training at the time they were introduced, but I assume there was some confusion in their implementation. Yes, at first, recruits would hold these cards up to ward off the evil Section Commanders, but this was seen as impractible and quickly canned. However, the Urban mith of the Red Card still remains today.

The Red card has Two sides. On one side it has typical stress reactions that the recruits are expected to incounter, on the other, the Green side, it has methods of dealing with that stress. The recruits do not hold these up and they are meaningless to Recruit Instructors.

Recruits still get yelled at. However there is now just more tact involved. You can only yell at someone for so long before they turn off. So I switch between yelling and speaking very softly, which freaks out Recruits to no end. You cannot insult a Recruit. Bottom line. But if they are acting in a manner consistant with someone who is a F@#kwit, they are told so. Often very loudly...

savagE · 15-08-2007, 10:14 PM

Joining up Next year as a Rifleman. Basically can't wait, my choice to go as I will get about an 85UAI so its not like I am doing it for the money or anything.
Pride and gratitude for what Australia has given me.
Plus being an avid football player and loving that scene, I think it will suit me well. I don't mind a up.

I visit another Forum which helps people throughout the application system etc.
Basically the opposite of what FTarmy.com is. People there have retired and tell the pros and cons of being in the army.
I take FTarmy with a pinch of salt and doesn't deter me.

MO · 15-08-2007, 10:24 PM

fordomatic...bloody hell whats going on we breeding/training a bunch of softies...extra training??????

Guys from my perspective there was and is nothing wrong with rifle at high port and full pack 10 times round parade ground if you stuffed up...drop give me 50...it built character..stamina..and discipline.

So am I correct in assuming that because such leeway is given now that in the field they can question orders????

WPN XR6T · 16-08-2007, 08:43 AM

"Illigal punishments" as they are now called are the result of Law rather than policy. Someone who gets paid more than I do decided the the Defence force needed to be more open and have greater visability in the way in which punisment were delt.

This came about due to a number of factors. First being that the DFDA is a Commonwealth Act. As a result it is Federal law and must be adheared to strictly. Second and the main reason it changed was the media's preception of Bastardisation within Army. I wont get on my highhorse about this as it would take too long, needless to say it is P!$$. Recent example, the Youtube videio crap about "Recruits" in Darwin (There is no recruits in Darwin, and if it was just another Football team, it would not have even made it on the News). As long as the Media report it the preception remains, and the Illegal Punishments must be seen to being avoided.