How to prove it wasnt my fault..?

EgoXR · 14-02-2009, 08:59 PM

During this week I drove my ute up somebodys rear. Through no fault of my own. Was a little hilux ute, with an aluminum tray.

It was on Canterbury Rd just over blackburn rd, it goes from three lanes into two. I was merging from the left lane into the next, when this bloke was behind my car. the traffic in front of us was slowing down as was I.
I was indicating and was clearly halfway into the next lane, Then the same guy that was behind me darted around me in the next lane, then pulled in front of me, when clearly there was no room, and slammed on his brakes to avoid hitting the traffic infront which was now stationary. Now at the point of impact, he was half in my lane and half in the lane next to mine, hence me only having damage to my FRHS.

I dont have a witness, so its my word against his. When we pulled over he basically wrote down his details in his car, got out after a while, rudely and abruptly asked for mine, got in his car and drove off. It seemed as though he had done all this many times. it was his works car.
I was a bit gobsmacked by his reaction and didnt check the details he gave me, which excluded and insurance company and a rego. I spoke to police who gave me his rego and works phone number, they also said I was in the right.
Without a witness how can i prove that he is in the wrong?

Heres some pics i took before. The damage is in excess of 2k

pertuan · 14-02-2009, 09:08 PM

Perhaps the police report will show that you were in the right?

Off topic, I hate idiots to cut into my lane when clearly there's no room for them let alone yourself!

**fordomatic** · 14-02-2009, 09:09 PM

mate from my experience unless you have a witness you will be paying. only because its rear end and they will say you should have left more room, even though you obviously could'nt.

motorcycles4eva · 14-02-2009, 09:11 PM

doesn't the damage show with your story?? its towards the right corner..if you rammed him then it would be your whole front end..

EgoXR · 14-02-2009, 09:18 PM

[QUOTE=pertuan]Perhaps the police report will show that you were in the right?
QUOTE]

When I was in the cop shop he didnt give me a report..:togo:

DoreSlamR · 14-02-2009, 09:24 PM

[QUOTE=EgoXR]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pertuan

Perhaps the police report will show that you were in the right?
QUOTE]

When I was in the cop shop he didnt give me a report..:togo:

If you want any chance to prove you were not in the wrong you have to give the police a report straight away.

Even before you call your insurance company because they will want a police report number.

Yaw · 14-02-2009, 10:03 PM

where was the damage on his car?
A lot will come down to damage points.
and also on the line markings of the road.
Any police report will not prove anything, the police did not witness it.
As an insurance officer I would be looking firstly at a satelite picture of where you say it happened, I would look at where his damage was.
But from what you have described in your verison I would be of the opinion you will be at fault.
Facts I know thus far from what you have said :
"I drove my ute up somebodys rear."- this leads me to believe his damage is to his rear.
"I was indicating and was clearly halfway into the next lane"
Leads me to believe you may have been either doing a shoulder check or looking in the rear view mirror.
"Then the same guy that was behind me darted around me in the next lane, then pulled in front of me"

For what you are claiming to be not at fault damage would need to be down his left side starting from before the back of the car. As he was in front of you when you changed lanes shows he was there before you.

Sorry but without an INDEPENDANT witness you will most likley be the at fault party.

alter_EGOXR · 14-02-2009, 10:05 PM

sorry to hear mate...bt may i ask how old u r? here in nsw, if ur p-plater its usually ur fault no matter how u look at it, unless u have a witness....my mum (whose got a full licence) got into a bingle early last year and it was clearly not her fault even when the accident occured the guy who ran into her, took full responsibility for the accident...bt when it came to telling the insurance company he decided to tell a lil fib..newyz long story short u need a witness or even a police report because those so called "accident repair experts" dont know any better...just keep fighting mate and you should be alrite (took us nearly 6months before we got the car repaired)...good luck!

Alanbxr8 · 14-02-2009, 10:23 PM

Same thing happened to me years ago, a Taxi pulled in front & stopped dead, the Police did understand what happened but without a witness I still copped a neg driving ticket

wodahs · 14-02-2009, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EgoXR

During this week I drove my ute up somebodys rear. Through no fault of my own. Was a little hilux ute, with an aluminum tray.

It was on Canterbury Rd just over blackburn rd, it goes from three lanes into two. I was merging from the left lane into the next, when this bloke was behind my car. the traffic in front of us was slowing down as was I.
I was indicating and was clearly halfway into the next lane, Then the same guy that was behind me darted around me in the next lane, then pulled in front of me, when clearly there was no room, and slammed on his brakes to avoid hitting the traffic infront which was now stationary. Now at the point of impact, he was half in my lane and half in the lane next to mine, hence me only having damage to my FRHS.

I dont have a witness, so its my word against his. When we pulled over he basically wrote down his details in his car, got out after a while, rudely and abruptly asked for mine, got in his car and drove off. It seemed as though he had done all this many times. it was his works car.
I was a bit gobsmacked by his reaction and didnt check the details he gave me, which excluded and insurance company and a rego. I spoke to police who gave me his rego and works phone number, they also said I was in the right.
Without a witness how can i prove that he is in the wrong?

Heres some pics i took before. The damage is in excess of 2k

had drivers do this to me aswell
you try to stop a 80 tonne truck when they do this and then they get out and recon they are all justified

last fairlane · 14-02-2009, 11:41 PM

I know what you mean Wadah
45 tonne and I cop this crap at least once a day in the suburbs will they ever learn it should be taught to car drivers that big rigs need more room to stop especially at lights you are pulling up at a red light and some one ducks in front and the heart goes into your mouth 80 tonne that would be to stressful
80 tonne that would have to be a road train?
john

**Sorted** · 15-02-2009, 12:02 AM

If you haven't got a witness to back up your story then your going find it very hard to prove the other person was at fault..........

Fev · 15-02-2009, 12:25 AM

silly impatient bastard.. they will always cause this sort of thing and of course, the person who didnt do anything wrong cops it..

i hope he pays for it.

EgoXR · 15-02-2009, 02:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yaw

. As he was in front of you when you changed lanes shows he was there before you.

Sorry but without an INDEPENDANT witness you will most likley be the at fault party.

Nah I was in front of him when i changed lanes. He then sped around me and jumped on the brakes.

EgoXR · 15-02-2009, 02:41 AM

[QUOTE=hemank]sorry to hear mate...bt may i ask how old u r? [QUOTE]

Im 23, so couple years off my p's. never been in an accident before.

Redrum · 15-02-2009, 03:31 AM

In Victoria when you report accidents we do not give you a report. They are done on a data base which only accidents records, located at the VIctoria Police Centre, can access hard copies, at a cost I think.

In an accident like this, if there are no witnesses, most likely police will not be able to work out who is at fault, unless the other party admits fault or corroborates your story. Due to the fact that the damage is on the front of your vehicle the other party could easily make claims you failed to give way whilst merging and hit him. so I would think, if the other party does not admit fault, the accident will be written off as unable to ascertain who is at fault and if any offences took place. The matter then goes to the civil arena, where the burden of proof changes. I would say Insurance will be fighting this one out.

Yaw · 15-02-2009, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EgoXR

Nah I was in front of him when i changed lanes. He then sped around me and jumped on the brakes.

Then his damages if he was not there before you would be down the left side of the car which would have scrapped along the front right of your car as he went past,
Not to the rear of his car.

I do understand what you are saying, I am just trying to explain damage points against what you have described.
As far as insurance goes you will have your excess to pay even if he backs up your story and says the same thing as you. Best possible outcome they could negotiate would be "Each Bear Own" which means each person looks after thier own damage. so he claims with his insurance company and he pays his excess and you claim with yours and they look after your damage but you will still pay your excess as with and EBO case there is no recovery, therfore excess still applies.
You admit to changing lanes meaning you must give way to traffic in the lane beside you, as his damage is not down the left side of his car, it means he was past you in that lane before you were in that lane.
But playing devils advocate, if I was his insurer I would not accept that and would continue to hold the other person at fault, as without a witness it is simply word against word, and the damage to each car show a different story.

For all those who keep insiting on a police report. THIS IS NOT REQUIRED nor would an insurance company take any wieght of it, as the police are simply taking what you say and what the other person says, (which is what the insurer does for themselves anyway.) All a police report will do is end up slowing the claim process down as once police become involved you then need to check if there are any Blood Alcohol or drug concerns with the driver of thier policy. And to go one step further from an insurers point of veiw it does not matter if the third party had drug or alcohol concerns because if circumstanses of the accident put them at fault, we can recover from them still, or if the insurers client is liable, they still need to pay out the other party regardless of drug or Alcohol concerns. The other thing a police report may also do is ending up with you or the other party or both getting a fine and demerit points.
So UNLESS SOMEONE IS INJURED IN AN ACCIDENT DO NOT bother involving the police. Just make sure you exchange details with the other person
Name , address, REGO number, phone numbers, and make and model of the car, and a licence number if possible write the name and address from the licence down also yourself so you are not relying on them to write accurate details about them selves.

chevypower · 15-02-2009, 09:41 AM

Prepare an affadavit stating the facts against the other party. Then send it to your insurance company. Make a copy for yourself.

Rodp · 15-02-2009, 10:27 AM

My father was spun off the road on a 2 lane 110kph freeway when a car overtook him in the right lane, merged suddenly clipping the front of my father's car with the rear of his car and put him into a barrier.

My father was charged with neg driving and his insurance was liable for 100% of the damages to both cars.

Unless you have a witness, I'd say you're going to be SOL. It'll come down to your word vs his and the law tends to favour the car infront.

EgoXR · 15-02-2009, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yaw

Then his damages if he was not there before you would be down the left side of the car which would have scrapped along the front right of your car as he went past,
Not to the rear of his car.

I do understand what you are saying

Nah your not understanding. Il give it to you in point form.

*3 lane road merging into 2 lanes, left lane ending.

*I was in the left lane so that I had to merge into the right.

*Traffic further in front was slowing down.

*As I merged (indicating and moving right into the next lane) everything was ok. And the car in question was well behind me. this is where it gets sticky.

*The car which was then behind me appears to my right.

* I begin to slow down with enough room to stop so that I dont hit stationary traffic ahead.

* As I slow down he cuts infront of me and jumps on his brakes and comes to a stop. at this point half in my lane and half in the next.

* this is where I made impact with the rear of his aluminium tray. As there was no time for me to slow down. he had no right to cut in front of me, there was no room. hence the reason he was half in my lane and half in another. To back that up my damage is only to my front right.
There is no damage at all to his tray.

I hope this makes it easier for you to understand I wasnt at fault. I will fight this to the death as I had right of way.

mcnews · 15-02-2009, 12:12 PM

Impact from rear will make it very, very, hard for you to come out on top. No matter what he did you will get labelled without due care etc. I reckon. Hopefully not, but I don't like your chances.

Peter B - CV8 · 15-02-2009, 12:36 PM

Without any independant witness/es you are on a hiding to nothing. Bottom line - you rearended him.

ratter · 15-02-2009, 12:39 PM

Idiots do this all the time as they think everybody will back down to them, but sorry to say it also, but with out the witness, it is your word against his, you are lucky you did not get charged because you rear ended him or you failed to merge correctly/safely

**ebxr8240** · 15-02-2009, 12:49 PM

Good luck !!

gtxb67 · 15-02-2009, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EgoXR

I hope this makes it easier for you to understand I wasnt at fault. I will fight this to the death as I had right of way.

from reading this - obviously i did not see it, but it seems blame could be apportioned to both parties. at some stage (what was happening when you first indicated is irrelevant) a car was beside you and had to slow down for the vehicles in front. you were merging into his lane and ran into the back of him when he had stopped

he may have been a total tool, but the law says we must drive in a way to avoid an accident. we must make allowances for things that are unexpected

it seems to me the way the police, a judge or insurance company will officially look at it - you changed lanes and hit a car that was already in that lane and that car should have been expected to be stationery or at least slowing down

unfortunately the law when used to blame one or another has to be almost black or white - hence the driver running into the back of another is nearly always held accountable. in most cases, if we drove more than 2 seconds behind and at a safe speed, we will not run into the back of someone. in certain cases that is not always true, but i think the law will see it as you at fault

hopefully you have insurance and then it will be less painful. as i understand, the insurance companies will read your claim form and decide for themselves. you probably will not be able to argue with them anyway

SirHenry · 15-02-2009, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EgoXR

Nah your not understanding. Il give it to you in point form.

*3 lane road merging into 2 lanes, left lane ending.

*I was in the left lane so that I had to merge into the right.

*Traffic further in front was slowing down.

*As I merged (indicating and moving right into the next lane) everything was ok. And the car in question was well behind me. this is where it gets sticky.

*The car which was then behind me appears to my right.

* I begin to slow down with enough room to stop so that I dont hit stationary traffic ahead.

* As I slow down he cuts infront of me and jumps on his brakes and comes to a stop. at this point half in my lane and half in the next.

* this is where I made impact with the rear of his aluminium tray. As there was no time for me to slow down. he had no right to cut in front of me, there was no room. hence the reason he was half in my lane and half in another. To back that up my damage is only to my front right.
There is no damage at all to his tray.

I hope this makes it easier for you to understand I wasnt at fault. I will fight this to the death as I had right of way.

That sucks, idiots do this all the time thinking that if they do it then yeah "its gonna me there 1 whole second quicker like wow!"

Personally I'd be pushing to try to get the little charged with failure to drive with due care and attention, maybe reckless driving. Did he cross any solid lines to get around you? What I have happen a fair bit is they change lane over a solid line which is illegal.

Not sure how ya gonna get on but good luck good on ya for holding your temper on that one if it was me I think I would have hit him.

Stefan · 15-02-2009, 01:09 PM

You said you saw him next to you which to me pretty much indicates you saw him and could /should have avoided him. Rear ender its pretty much on you. I'd save the pain, pay the excess and learn from the mistake. merging in stop start traffic can be difficult especially with impatient drivers.

mrbaxr6t · 15-02-2009, 01:53 PM

I feel sorry for you I got nailed under a similar technicality - every time you reverse out of your driveway onto the road or reverse out of an angle park spot onto the road officially you are breaking the law if you hit something regardless of circumstances surrounding it - its your fault. I really hope that its not the same in your case, pity about your car I hope they fix it up real nice.

EgoXR · 15-02-2009, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stefan

You said you saw him next to you which to me pretty much indicates you saw him and could /should have avoided him. Rear ender its pretty much on you. I'd save the pain, pay the excess and learn from the mistake. merging in stop start traffic can be difficult especially with impatient drivers.

Wrong. I had already merged safely into my lane. He was in the next then darted infront of me.

This is the hardest thing ive had to expalin. It was one of the stupidest things ive seen anyone do on the road, therefore hard to believe/understand if you werent there. Thanks for those who have tried to help.

EgoXR · 15-02-2009, 02:40 PM

[QUOTE=Stefan] I'd save the pain, pay the excess and learn from the mistake.[QUOTE]

Thats a cop out. Wont be going down that road.