Revenue Raising

SB076 · 09-05-2005, 04:45 PM

I know this topic has been bought up previously but never to this extent (I beleive)

I was driving down thompsons rd (between dandenong hastings and frankston dandenong) which I admit is clearly posted as 40Km zone due to construction work. However I was driving 5.30 pm Saturday afternoon (obviously no construction taking place) and was flashed several times by cars coming the other way so I obeyed the speed limit and sat on 40Km and up ahead was a police car parked in with other cars with two officers frantically trying to write tickets. As I approached it was funny to see an officer notice me, and run around the police cruiser to grab the radar gun and radar me (I have never seen an officer move so fast, he probably broke the speed limit himself) Now thankfully I was doing 40 so I didn't get pulled over. I did however feel sorry for all the other drivers who had been pulled over especially considering they could have been pulled over for doing no more than 43Km. With the amount of cars they had pulled over I would suggest they would have had almost 100% success rate at booking every driver travelling along that road (for those who don't know its a straight road speed limit is usually 90Km)

Now I am all for slowing down when contruction workers are in danger, however when work obviously isnt taking place why is everyone forced to do 40Km and why would any self respecting police office take advantage of the situation? Any officers on the forum please feel free to tell me as I was appalled and beleive its only going to lead to an us vs them mentality and no one is going to win expect the state government (extra revenue)

If anyone has an opinion different from mine then please share it as I can't see any logic to it and its certainly doing nothing for the road toll.

Casper · 09-05-2005, 04:50 PM

All I want is to keep my license long enough to see this stupid revenue hungry government tossed out on its ***. Its revenue raising, we all know it, and the us vs them mentality has long since arrived and embedded itself.

I can only hope that one day a high court challenge will outlaw this form of pathetic revenue collection.

xdc351 · 09-05-2005, 04:55 PM

I agree with you 100%. There are about 4 or 5 roadwork projects between my home and my work with 40 zones. Only 1 of them has road conditions poor enough to warrant slowing to 40 when there is no actual construction work going on.

One of them has 40kmh over 1.5kms from the actual roadworks.... and most of that 1.5kms is downhill.

Just a joke.

banarcus · 09-05-2005, 05:17 PM

I dont see how this would help the road toll and I can only say that the Victorian Government has declared war on the motorist. There is no use fighting the system front on. Vote out the current government. Also, give lawsy a call. Public opinion is a good thing and yes, the public do expect the governments of Australia to cut the road toll, but if the general public, not the rev head yobs if you know what I mean, see how the government is imposing on the public like this, I'm sure people power can win. Wheels are currently painting that picture now, all we need is for the mass media to see the same thing.
Its a very lame thing to do, booking people in a zone where there is no construction in sight.

merlin · 09-05-2005, 05:28 PM

mate i agree with you - these construction zone 24 hour/7 days a week speed limits are a joke! They do it up here in NSW as well.

09-05-2005, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by merlin

mate i agree with you - these construction zone 24 hour/7 days a week speed limits are a joke! They do it up here in NSW as well.

Over the last few weeks I've travelled through one particular stretch of roadworks between Canberra and Cooma, Heading to Canberra, the limit has either been 80 (roadworks) or 100 (signs covered up)
Heading south it has been 40km/h or signs covered, so 100km/h...This is well after work has finished and there is no danger to anyone at all doing 100... The fact that each direction can and does have different speeds leads me to think that someone is being lazy of an afternoon and not covering the signs.....

aZ` · 09-05-2005, 06:05 PM

i agree 100% and its not just construction zones, even to the extent of normal freeways. the speed limit is 100, and im not asking for it to be increased but cops sitting on a straight section of road, with no traffic lights, intersections, definatley no pedestians or dogs around and not even any oncomming traffic in the vicinity. this is not an accident proned area, cops should sit where it is dangerous to speed, not where they know they'll find someone speeding!

MITCHAY · 09-05-2005, 07:46 PM

Also i dont like it how they slow traffic down ages away from the construction site or on roads that it may not apply

ie. i was driving down a road today towards a roundabout with signs all over it and there was no trace of construction. Where the work actually was happening was to the right of the roundabout and wouldnt have affected traffic goin straight. I think they delibrately make it 40km/h because they know about 90% of drivers wont do it therefore making it easy to book people. I think 40km/h in a 100km/h causes more trouble than it solves. I think 50-60km/h would be safe and reasonable.

Highways should be made 120km/h at least. I know roads where the speed limit is 70km/h and my car is quite happy to do 90-100km/h on these roads without driftn out or becomming dangerous. People will always take corners at the speed they think their car is capable of goin. If the speed limit is too low it just causes congestion especially in roadwork zones

RSgerry · 09-05-2005, 11:58 PM

the reason they enforce the speed limits 24/7 is that it is too hard to change limits to suit traffic conditions. however, it also means that there is a better chance of catching someone creeping over the limit when there is little or no traffic, no hazards and a damn good chance to relieve you of $100. making criminals out of ordinary people going about their business only creates a great deal of resentment. if there was some identifiable efforts to actually reduce the road toll, as opposed to band aid solutions designed to appease the mindless masses, we wouldnt mind. however, that is never likely to happen...real road safety costs money, it makes nothing.

bindi · 10-05-2005, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RSgerry

the reason they enforce the speed limits 24/7 is that it is too hard to change limits to suit traffic conditions. however, it also means that there is a better chance of catching someone creeping over the limit when there is little or no traffic, no hazards and a damn good chance to relieve you of $100.

Well yeah, we've had work on the Great Western Highway (the main hwy that leads from Sydney, through the Blue Mountains, and on out west - this hwy, for non-NSW ppl, in some parts is the ONLY way through to the west) for years now. We have so many changes in speed that it's very confusing, and that's where the cops get you.

What I despise more is the school zones. Now lemme start by saying that I am FOR them. I despise the fact that everyone ignores them.

One day last year I saw a little kindy kid decide he was just gonna run over the road without looking (not using the crossing) and the car he bolted in front of was doing 40kph and was able to stop in time. This kid had lied to the teacher 10 minutes before the bell, telling her he was going to the toilet. He wanted to get home to read his library book and decided to take himself home! It scared the crap out of me when I was just finished parking and saw him do it just in front of me... so I believe it's great to have 40 zones. The teacher had a fit when I told her!

The main issue is that they are generic signs and times. I understand that this is to "train" drivers into going 40kph between 2.30pm and 4pm every school afternoon.

BUT! My kids' school, for example, finishes at 2.25pm (yeah early I know grrrr). The signs have been changed to "2pm and 3pm" 40kph zones... but they are ignored by drivers (mostly) cos they don't bother reading the signs (they have been trained to read 2.30pm to 4pm). The other week a COP sped through at well over the speed limit at around 2.10pm... so if the cops don't read the sign, then how can they be expected to uphold the 2pm-3pm 40kph zone?

Ok here's the clincher. Nearly a year ago, one of these signs leading to the school was vandalised and was a bit difficult to read. The RTA replaced the sign this week... with a GENERIC one. So on one side of the road you have 2pm-3pm, the other says 2.30pm-4pm.

Maybe I should contact Today Tonight... wouldn't they love this shit?!

LTDHO · 10-05-2005, 07:44 AM

SB076, I am very familliar with this raod and the 40kph when there is no work being done is more dangerous than 60 or 70! I can understand the 40kph when work is being done, I completely support anything that provides a safe enviroment but it is not nessessary when nothing is being done!

Thompsons road used to be 100kph. It was dropped to 90 then 80. This is due to the poor condition of the road. Once it is resealed and widened, do you think the speed will go back up??

When will the government realise that lower speeds will not lower the road toll?

The MaDDeSTMaN · 10-05-2005, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bindi

BUT! My kids' school, for example, finishes at 2.25pm (yeah early I know grrrr). The signs have been changed to "2pm and 3pm" 40kph zones... but they are ignored by drivers (mostly) cos they don't bother reading the signs (they have been trained to read 2.30pm to 4pm). The other week a COP sped through at well over the speed limit at around 2.10pm... so if the cops don't read the sign, then how can they be expected to uphold the 2pm-3pm 40kph zone?

Ok here's the clincher. Nearly a year ago, one of these signs leading to the school was vandalised and was a bit difficult to read. The RTA replaced the sign this week... with a GENERIC one. So on one side of the road you have 2pm-3pm, the other says 2.30pm-4pm.

Maybe I should contact Today Tonight... wouldn't they love this shit?!

Yeah, why not, they would probably love the story...

I wonder what would happen if a political party used speed cameras and revenue raising as an election promise to change...

MITCHAY · 10-05-2005, 12:19 PM

Im all for school zones for primary school (these kids just run out in front of ya) but i mean for colleges and high schools is goin a bit far. Those kids are old enough to know when not to cross the road and if they get hit its their dumbass fault. I always do the 40km/h regardless though. What is really stupid to see is parents with their kids in the car flying through school zones! You would think being parents themselves they would be the ones doin the 40km/h.

SB076 · 10-05-2005, 12:27 PM

Thanks for your replies, I don't expect construction workers to change the signs back every night or every weekend as they, like most of us would want to go home or get away from the job. My main beef is with the police officers who take advantage of the situation, I believe that this is one area where common sense should prevail and the police should know better than to sit in an area where they know they will catch drivers who are not hoons or endagering road safety and fine them for doing nothing wrong. If there are any police officers on this forum I would like to hear your point of view.

LTDHO, I remember the road being 100 Ks and it was a pretty ordinary road and for memory there where a couple of fatalities along the road. Interesting to note I never once saw police on the road when it was 100, because a lot of drivers actually stayed below the limit. After the road has been fixed you would expect it to go back to 100, however I think we will be lucky if the speed limit is 80

In regards to school zones I have no problems doing 40K, however I think it would be best if traffic and kids are kept seperate (easy said then done I know) but if you hit a kid at 40 its still going to cause injury and may even cause death. Might be an idea to put fences up along the roads so the kids can only cross or have access to small areas of road and put pedestrian crossings at those points so that at least drivers are expecting kids/pedestrians to run out on to the road and can adjust there driving accordingly. Only problem with that is that there is no money to be made, but anyway thats a bit off topic.

Biggoggs · 10-05-2005, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Im all for school zones for primary school (these kids just run out in front of ya) but i mean for colleges and high schools is goin a bit far. Those kids are old enough to know when not to cross the road and if they get hit its their dumbass fault. I always do the 40km/h regardless though. What is really stupid to see is parents with their kids in the car flying through school zones! You would think being parents themselves they would be the ones doin the 40km/h.

Tell me about it! There's a particular road on the way to town (Sandy Bay road) with a school on the main road. The last time I slowed to 40 (it's usually 80), a woman in a SAAB behind me had the sheer audacity to use her horn and wave her arms about at me!
Makes me want to get one of those LED text displays you see in stockmarkets and put it on the back window- `school zone b**ch -->'

MITCHAY · 10-05-2005, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biggoggs

Tell me about it! There's a particular road on the way to town (Sandy Bay road) with a school on the main road. The last time I slowed to 40 (it's usually 80), a woman in a SAAB behind me had the sheer audacity to use her horn and wave her arms about at me!
Makes me want to get one of those LED text displays you see in stockmarkets and put it on the back window- `school zone b**ch -->'

I just do 40 with them on my *** then slow to 30 after the school zone, then love seeing their faces when i drop the gear and put the foot down and imgoooone. Or i brake with them on my ***-their fault if they hit me. Bye bye tailgater

BA_Turbs · 10-05-2005, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aZ`

i agree 100% and its not just construction zones, even to the extent of normal freeways. the speed limit is 100, and im not asking for it to be increased but cops sitting on a straight section of road, with no traffic lights, intersections, definatley no pedestians or dogs around and not even any oncomming traffic in the vicinity. this is not an accident proned area, cops should sit where it is dangerous to speed, not where they know they'll find someone speeding!

Actually, the entire length of Thompson's Road is one of the worst stretches of road in the state. Shocking fatal accidents occur with a saddening regularity along there. Not having a go at you, but have you ever driven the road? Shocking off camber, narrow bloody goat track, not a real road.

BA_Turbs · 10-05-2005, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SB076

I know this topic has been bought up previously but never to this extent (I beleive)

I was driving down thompsons rd (between dandenong hastings and frankston dandenong) which I admit is clearly posted as 40Km zone due to construction work. However I was driving 5.30 pm Saturday afternoon (obviously no construction taking place) and was flashed several times by cars coming the other way so I obeyed the speed limit and sat on 40Km and up ahead was a police car parked in with other cars with two officers frantically trying to write tickets. As I approached it was funny to see an officer notice me, and run around the police cruiser to grab the radar gun and radar me (I have never seen an officer move so fast, he probably broke the speed limit himself) Now thankfully I was doing 40 so I didn't get pulled over. I did however feel sorry for all the other drivers who had been pulled over especially considering they could have been pulled over for doing no more than 43Km. With the amount of cars they had pulled over I would suggest they would have had almost 100% success rate at booking every driver travelling along that road (for those who don't know its a straight road speed limit is usually 90Km)

Now I am all for slowing down when contruction workers are in danger, however when work obviously isnt taking place why is everyone forced to do 40Km and why would any self respecting police office take advantage of the situation? Any officers on the forum please feel free to tell me as I was appalled and beleive its only going to lead to an us vs them mentality and no one is going to win expect the state government (extra revenue)

If anyone has an opinion different from mine then please share it as I can't see any logic to it and its certainly doing nothing for the road toll.

How do you know that?

I know a lot of the blokes at the TMU in Frankston, none would pull a car over for doing 43km/h. If you look at a ticket it has two boxes "Actual Speed" & "Alleged Speed". The alleged speed is always 2km/h below the actual speed. The actual speed is what you were detected driving at by the laser. So, do you honestly think that you would get a ticket for 41km/h in a 40km/h zone?

I am agree with your complaint. I am sure there are other places that the TMU could be spending their time, but its not for me to judge. However, I don't agree with the uninformed and ridiculous rhetoric and bull**** that is always associated with threads like this. If a band of citizens was able to form and stick to facts & figures instead of rubbish, a formidable arguement may be able to be taken up to the local member of parliment and things might get done.

Just don't expect it to happen soon. With people out there getting killed on the roads left right and centre, there will be no reduction in the focus on speeding in the near future. In my opinion anyway. Local MPs should be getting hammered for all of this kind of stuff. Stop whinging and start doing people, then things might change.

SB076 · 10-05-2005, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BA_Turbs

How do you know that?

I know a lot of the blokes at the TMU in Frankston, none would pull a car over for doing 43km/h. If you look at a ticket it has two boxes "Actual Speed" & "Alleged Speed". The alleged speed is always 2km/h below the actual speed. The actual speed is what you were detected driving at by the laser. So, do you honestly think that you would get a ticket for 41km/h in a 40km/h zone?

I am agree with your complaint. I am sure there are other places that the TMU could be spending their time, but its not for me to judge. However, I don't agree with the uninformed and ridiculous rhetoric and bull**** that is always associated with threads like this. If a band of citizens was able to form and stick to facts & figures instead of rubbish, a formidable arguement may be able to be taken up to the local member of parliment and things might get done.

Just don't expect it to happen soon. With people out there getting killed on the roads left right and centre, there will be no reduction in the focus on speeding in the near future. In my opinion anyway. Local MPs should be getting hammered for all of this kind of stuff. Stop whinging and start doing people, then things might change.

I don't know, thats why I said could, the way the officer ran to get his radar gives me some indication that they were going to pretty extrodinary lengths to book drivers. But that wasn't why I started this thread, this thread was started because I would like to hear from an officers or anyone elses for that matter point of view as to why they were sitting in a constuction zone Saturday afternoon (5.30 pm) and what they hoped achieve booking cars travelling along Thompsons Rd, apart from revenue and ****ing off the public.

Most poeople know a few police officers and I have been able to meet a few due to various misunderstandings and generally don't have a problem with them. Actually spent a fair bit of time talking to an officer after I got pulled over and he was a great guy, still got a ticket but I expected that because I was speeding and I owned up to that.

Sticking to facts and figures the road toll is current 9 higher than this time last year but revenue from speeding camera's is up. Kinda of suggests that maybe the current course taken by the governments and police isn't working

I do agree with your last statement, however I don't think any government will change the situation as there is too much money involved and the government relies on this

shane3 · 10-05-2005, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BA_Turbs

How do you know that?

I know a lot of the blokes at the TMU in Frankston, none would pull a car over for doing 43km/h. If you look at a ticket it has two boxes "Actual Speed" & "Alleged Speed". The alleged speed is always 2km/h below the actual speed. The actual speed is what you were detected driving at by the laser. So, do you honestly think that you would get a ticket for 41km/h in a 40km/h zone?

I am agree with your complaint. I am sure there are other places that the TMU could be spending their time, but its not for me to judge. However, I don't agree with the uninformed and ridiculous rhetoric and bull**** that is always associated with threads like this. If a band of citizens was able to form and stick to facts & figures instead of rubbish, a formidable arguement may be able to be taken up to the local member of parliment and things might get done.

Just don't expect it to happen soon. With people out there getting killed on the roads left right and centre, there will be no reduction in the focus on speeding in the near future. In my opinion anyway. Local MPs should be getting hammered for all of this kind of stuff. Stop whinging and start doing people, then things might change.

I have had a ticket issued to me for 63km/h in a 60 zone on a sunday after noon (4pm) and the cops were sitting down a side road, road saftey! NOT!!!!! If I was to be cought out like that (construction zone, with a reduced speed limit on a week end) I would take it to court.

RSgerry · 10-05-2005, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The MaDDeSTMaN

I wonder what would happen if a political party used speed cameras and revenue raising as an election promise to change...

it is simple. they promise to use the cameras for road safety and divert 100% of revenue raised back into road safety initiatives, then, when they win office, they dont do it. ask michelle roberts, the labour minister in WA...i have and the bitch doesnt answer.....

11-05-2005, 11:50 AM

The best thing about 40 zones is when they put them on a 100km zone when they havn't started the road works yet and you get to choose between if you want to risk losing your license or risk getting hit by the trucks that still do 100km/h.

BA_Turbs · 11-05-2005, 01:55 PM

***News just in***

Spoke to one of the police that was at this Thompson's Road traversty of justive. The police were there as an RBT (Random Breath Test) site. There were no people booked for speeding at all. Some licence and registration tickets were issued. Is eliminating drink drivers from the road just revenue raising too? The fines for that are higher than speeding...

As far as any government just leaving speed cameras and unfair speed limits in place, that's a defeatist attitude. Of course they're going to when no-one whinges about it. If they think it will const them an election, they'll do whatever the hell it takes to change.

dzynafalcon · 11-05-2005, 04:22 PM

road work zones/construction zones are the only places on the roads that both civilian road users and emergency services all have to obey the speed limit. if theres a camera in a road work zone and a cop is speeding, he will cop a fine no matter whether he is on an emergency. same with ambulance and fire brigade.

i dont agree with cops using radar guns unless they are driving along the road in a marked car. hiding behind trees and other obstacles is plain revenue raising. and i absolutely loathe speed cameras. everytime i see one im on the horn shouting at the operator to get a real job.

but if you speed your bound to get caught sooner or later

TheSneakiness · 11-05-2005, 04:27 PM

LTDHO, SB076, Thompsons Road isn't the one that when you come off... uh... sh*t, I can't remember which road it is. But anyway, doesn't that lead right into Pearcedale, or am I dreaming?

SB076 · 11-05-2005, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BA_Turbs

***News just in***

Spoke to one of the police that was at this Thompson's Road traversty of justive. The police were there as an RBT (Random Breath Test) site. There were no people booked for speeding at all. Some licence and registration tickets were issued. Is eliminating drink drivers from the road just revenue raising too? The fines for that are higher than speeding...

As far as any government just leaving speed cameras and unfair speed limits in place, that's a defeatist attitude. Of course they're going to when no-one whinges about it. If they think it will const them an election, they'll do whatever the hell it takes to change.

So how does this new RBT work, must admit first time I have been breath tested at 40 Kmh an hour without having to stop and pull over and all this from 100m away thats really impressive.

If they where breath testing how come I wasn't tested and how come they pointed a radar at me, or was it some kind of new breathalyser????

SB076 · 11-05-2005, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AUII_XLS_Ute

LTDHO, SB076, Thompsons Road isn't the one that when you come off... uh... sh*t, I can't remember which road it is. But anyway, doesn't that lead right into Pearcedale, or am I dreaming?

It intersects Dandenong Hastings and Frankston Dandenong Rd, its more between Cranbourne and Carrum Downs/Patterson Lakes. Used to be a sh*t rd, its currently being widened, which is a good thing.

Kryton · 11-05-2005, 05:55 PM

simple answer to the original question is that the workers are too damn lazy to pick the signs up and then put them back out the next day.
that is of course if the road itself isnt a danger to motorists.

The MaDDeSTMaN · 11-05-2005, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RSgerry

Quote:

Originally Posted by The MaDDeSTMaN

I wonder what would happen if a political party used speed cameras and revenue raising as an election promise to change...

it is simple. they promise to use the cameras for road safety and divert 100% of revenue raised back into road safety initiatives, then, when they win office, they dont do it. ask michelle roberts, the labour minister in WA...i have and the bitch doesnt answer.....

Typical, they realised that making an election promise like that would get them votes, but didn't follow through with it, which will probably bite them on the @rse at the NEXT election. Maybe I should become a politician...

pauljh74 · 11-05-2005, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davway

simple answer to the original question is that the workers are too damn lazy to pick the signs up and then put them back out the next day.
that is of course if the road itself isnt a danger to motorists.

They wouldn't get any work done. Usually, it takes them almost till morning tea break to figure out what they are doing, then when they come back from the smoko they have to figure out what they were up to, which takes almost until lunch............