Has your ZF milkshaked poll - POST 2012 ONLY

[prydey]

Given this topic keeps on coming up, with no real facts on how prolific it still is, or if it is at all, i thought i'd start a new poll for later model cars only.

This is for falcons and territories (petrol and diesel) manufactured after 2012 only!

this is just a date i plucked out of thin air, but didn't want to exclude too many cars for fear the sample size would be too small and wouldn't provide much of a picture.

If you vote, feel free to also update the thread with your car details and also add whether or not the cooling system has been maintained as per factory recommendations.

Please DO NOT comment if you DO NOT have a car built after 2012. thanks

[ratter]

So cars built from 01 Jan 2013?

[prydey]

It was just a randomly plucked date. Its not a definitive cut off though, so if you have had a failure on a car built late 2012, then feel free to vote, but also comment to clarify the age of your car.

i kept the voting simple, but if all those who vote could also post a comment with their car details, then that would help to paint a clear picture.

[PG2]

As stated here...

http://www.fordforums.com.au/showpos...84&postcount=1

FG MKII XR6. Mine did it at 40101ks and 18 months old.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by PG2

As stated here...

http://www.fordforums.com.au/showpos...84&postcount=1

FG MKII XR6. Mine did it at 40101ks and 18 months old.

car build date please.

[PG2]

Originally Posted by prydey

car build date please.

1/2012.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by PG2

1/2012.

did you not read the thread title?

[PG2]

Originally Posted by prydey

did you not read the thread title?

I thought it would be relevant to your poll as they are exactly the same car.

Get one of the mods to delete it then. I don't care.

[M&Ms]

What you should ask, is for those with an FG Mk2 or FGX that have failed, not 'POST 2012'

[prydey]

Originally Posted by M&Ms

What you should ask, is for those with an FG Mk2 or FGX that have failed, not 'POST 2012'

I didn't realize it was such a difficult concept. Clearly I was wrong.

This wasn't about particular models, but rather trying to establish whether the situation is any different in more recent times.

[deesun]

Please remove my vote, yes I read it but I am a stupid male and took no notice, my car too early. Sorry.

[mike_nofx]

Originally Posted by prydey

did you not read the thread title?

Why so specific with the date, when pre 2013 models are exactly the same?

It seems you're trying to narrow the amount of votes to try skew results to 'prove' a lower failure rate, also evident by dismissing PG2's comment.

If you want a fair sample then allow anyone with FG+ regardless of build month or year to vote and comment.

[olds]

There should be another option in the poll
No not yet. Always dealership serviced but going to happen one day

[prydey]

Originally Posted by mike_nofx

Why so specific with the date, when pre 2013 models are exactly the same?

It seems you're trying to narrow the amount of votes to try skew results to 'prove' a lower failure rate, also evident by dismissing PG2's comment.

If you want a fair sample then allow anyone with FG+ regardless of build month or year to vote and comment.

There is already a poll that encompasses all models. As mentioned, I'm merely trying to establish whether the situation is the same in later built cars of both falcon and territory.

[mike_nofx]

Originally Posted by prydey

There is already a poll that encompasses all models. As mentioned, I'm merely trying to establish whether the situation is the same in later built cars of both falcon and territory.

That's fair enough. But I'm curious, if parts between the models are identical why should there be any difference?

And if there is a difference, it's simply because they are newer with less km and it just hasn't happened as many times... yet.

Einstein would call it insanity. Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

[Silver Ghia]

I'm trying to work out whether the reliability of the heat exchanger bolted to the side of the engine near the starter motor is being determined here, or heat exchangers as a whole.

Territory diesels don't have a heat exchanger like those in the petrol vehicles. Like the V8's, they have the heat exchanger in the radiator. But different radiators I suspect. And they use a different, longer life coolant.

So perhaps Diesel Territories and V8's should be excluded from this poll?

[prydey]

Originally Posted by mike_nofx

That's fair enough. But I'm curious, if parts between the models are identical why should there be any difference?

And if there is a difference, it's simply because they are newer with less km and it just hasn't happened as many times... yet.

Einstein would call it insanity. Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

if a poll of later cars showed a different result, wouldn't that signify that something had changed?

if there were procedure changes (as an example) in the build process, then you could have later build cars showing a different result even though they are the same model, hence my focus on year, not model.

[GO FURTHER]

There is another poll like this one still going with 557 votes so far.

"Do you own a ZF equipped Falcon and have you had it Milkshake?"

68 Yes votes to 484 No votes

Here.....

http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthr...37#post5891137

[GO FURTHER]

Originally Posted by prydey

if a poll of later cars showed a different result, wouldn't that signify that something had changed?

if there were procedure changes (as an example) in the build process, then you could have later build cars showing a different result even though they are the same model, hence my focus on year, not model.

The OEM Ford heat exchanger is a different model in the FG MKII's than that which was fitted to the original FG's.

So yes... Something has changed.

[olds]

Originally Posted by BAXRSIX

There is another poll like this one still going with 557 votes so far.

"Do you own a ZF equipped Falcon and have you had it Milkshake?"

68 Yes votes to 484 No votes

Here.....

http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthr...37#post5891137

It all comes down to engineering and if the Geelong engineers were any good the pole should show 552 No 0 yes .They have had plenty of time and enough examples of this FAULT to come up with a fix

[Mont5.0]

How many Milkshake threads does it take to change a heat exchanger?

[GO FURTHER]

Originally Posted by Mont5.0

How many Milkshake threads does it take to change a heat exchanger?

And how many Milkshake threads does it take to decide on what to change it to.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by olds

They have had plenty of time and enough examples of this FAULT to come up with a fix

what evidence do you have that they haven't done so in the last few years?

[olds]

Originally Posted by Mont5.0

How many Milkshake threads does it take to change a heat exchanger?

Should be
Q:how many engineers does it take to stop a Milkshake
A: More than Fraud Aus. has got

[mike_nofx]

Milkshakes have been an issue since the BA at least.

Not being a milkshake fan I fitted a radiator with stainless cooler to my BA, and on the BF I removed the heat exchanger and fitted a stand alone transmission cooler.

So from 2002 - 2016, 14 years of crappy transmission coolers in Falcons.

[olds]

Originally Posted by prydey

what evidence do you have that they haven't done so in the last few years?

Because it still occurs

[prydey]

Originally Posted by olds

Because it still occurs

does it?

now you understand why i'm trying to establish the failure rate of later built cars.

i haven't heard of one failing, esp on SZ territory or FGX falcon, on these forums.

have you?

[GO FURTHER]

Originally Posted by olds

It all comes down to engineering and if the Geelong engineers were any good the pole should show 552 No 0 yes .They have had plenty of time and enough examples of this FAULT to come up with a fix

But then again... All things in life that are man made will eventually fail... Nothing is forever in this world.

Your trans will eventually wear out and fail, as will your engine, coils, exhaust, and just about every other mechanical part.

The problem is premature failure of the heat exchanger means a very expensive ZF repair compared to replacing or fixing the damage caused by other mechanical parts failing in other areas ( not transmission).

The point however, has nothing to do with "good engineering" ... Ford was well aware of the OEM heat exchanger failures, and were even recommended a better design by the parent ZF company in Germany.

But Ford did not want to spend the extra money per unit on a car with falling sales in the FG - FGX series.

[olds]

Originally Posted by BAXRSIX

But then again... All things in life that are man made will eventually fail... Nothing is forever in this world.

Your trans will eventually wear out and fail, as will your engine, coils, exhaust, and just about every other mechanical part.

The problem is premature failure of the heat exchanger means a very expensive ZF repair compared to replacing or fixing the damage caused by other mechanical parts failing in other areas ( not transmission).

The point however, has nothing to do with "good engineering" ... Ford was well aware of the OEM heat exchanger failures, and were even recommended a better design by the parent ZF company in Germany.

But Ford did not want to spend the extra money per unit on a car with falling sales in the FG - FGX series.

I think we all know we are talking about Premature failure. If fraud are " well aware of their products failures "they should instigate a rectification program

[BFIIGhiaZF6]

In order to get the same level of exposure to voters this thread should be in the same section of the forum as this poll is https://fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11404878

I also believe that neither of these polls have addressed the question as to how many failed heat exchangers and or "Milkshakes" have been avoided by the removal of the heat exchanger and the installation of an air/oil cooler?

My heat exchanger has never failed because I removed it and installed an air/oil cooler, I would be voting "no" in both polls, but I do not intend to vote in either poll because it would suggest that the incidence of heat exchanger failures is lower than it actually is.