FPV Announces Pricing For 2010 Range

[jpd80]

The ECU is not designed to run four cam phasers at the moment....

[galaxy xr8]

Originally Posted by Polyal

There is a whole XR8 thread with many things discussed, I dont agree that the NA 5.0L wont be competitive..how did you come to that?

Yes true, there is an XR8 thread, sorry for missleading the topic at hand, let's get back to the pricing of the 2010 FPV's.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Sadly, XR8 buyers have voted with their feet and bought something else
and worse yet, there hasn't been any increase in XR6T or G6ET sales.

From that observation, I'd say they all went elsewhere, wouldn't you?

I wonder why those sales evaporated, maybe Ford gave those buyers no reason to stay...

You think?

You are saying that the combined XR6T & G6ET sales are not greater than the XR6T, XR8 & V8 Ghia sales in BF? Seriously?

From local experience here the majority of potential XR8 sales were converted to GT/GS if they were V8 diehards and XR6T if they were just performance enthusiasts.

As far as the 5l NA not being competitive.....

It is 5l so there is a limit to how much torque it can make. The only way it can make high power is through high revs which will make it hopeless in the traffic light grand prix.

I drive a car that makes 230kw, 358Nm, revs to 7500rpm, weighs 1400kg and will demolish anything with a FPV or XR badge on the windy stuff.
It is flat out getting a low to mid 14 over the 400m and would have difficulty against a XR6 N/A ZF at a traffic light grand prix. The VQ35HR engine has won many awards as one of the best engines ever made.

Increase it to 5l (10:7) and you have about 330kw and 500Nm which is only slightly more than a FG BOSS XR8 so how, if the BOSS was not competitive, can this new engined car all of a sudden lead the field.

The turbo 6 will still be quicker. The SSV will still be quicker. Nothing will change regardless of all the hopes and faith of the true believers.

Why is the 4l F6 so much quicker that the 6.3l GTS?
Why is the 4l XR6T/G6ET so much quicker than the 6l SSV?
Why is the 5l GS/GT showing such incredible performance?

Pitting a NA engine against a FI engine is taking a knife to a gun fight.......

[Falc'man]

Originally Posted by flappist

You think?

You are saying that the combined XR6T & G6ET sales are not greater than the XR6T, XR8 & V8 Ghia sales in BF? Seriously?

From local experience here the majority of potential XR8 sales were converted to GT/GS if they were V8 diehards and XR6T if they were just performance enthusiasts.

As far as the 5l NA not being competitive.....

It is 5l so there is a limit to how much torque it can make. The only way it can make high power is through high revs which will make it hopeless in the traffic light grand prix.

I drive a car that makes 230kw, 358Nm, revs to 7500rpm, weighs 1400kg and will demolish anything with a FPV or XR badge on the windy stuff.
It is flat out getting a low to mid 14 over the 400m and would have difficulty against a XR6 N/A ZF at a traffic light grand prix. The VQ35HR engine has won many awards as one of the best engines ever made.

Increase it to 5l (10:7) and you have about 330kw and 500Nm which is only slightly more than a FG BOSS XR8 so how, if the BOSS was not competitive, can this new engined car all of a sudden lead the field.

The turbo 6 will still be quicker. The SSV will still be quicker. Nothing will change regardless of all the hopes and faith of the true believers.

Why is the 4l F6 so much quicker that the 6.3l GTS?
Why is the 4l XR6T/G6ET so much quicker than the 6l SSV?
Why is the 5l GS/GT showing such incredible performance?

Pitting a NA engine against a FI engine is taking a knife to a gun fight.......

Imagine two cars that weighed the same. Both have the same torque, but car A makes it's peak torque earlier than car B. And car A also has an additional 30kW.

Which do you think would be quicker? (Not a trick question)

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Falc'man

Imagine two cars that weighed the same. Both have the same torque, but car A makes it's peak torque earlier than car B. And car A also has an additional 30kW.

Which do you think would be quicker? (Not a trick question)

How long and flat are the torque curves?

It is not the peak it is the area under the curve......

[Falc'man]

Originally Posted by flappist

How long and flat are the torque curves?

It is not the peak it is the area under the curve......

Car A has a flatter, fatter torque curve.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by flappist

You think?

You are saying that the combined XR6T & G6ET sales are not greater than the XR6T, XR8 & V8 Ghia sales in BF? Seriously?

That's right and checking Russell's Tech Resources confirms it, I'll admit that the rest
of the world fell off a financial cliff then too but Holden's V8 sales seems to have
recovered much better in the first half or 2010

From local experience here the majority of potential XR8 sales were converted to GT/GS if they were V8 diehards and XR6T if they were just performance enthusiasts.

Up round Central Queensland, a lot of XR8s and GTs were traded in for SS and HSVs,
Mackay has the largest HSV dealer in the country..

As far as the 5l NA not being competitive.....

It is 5l so there is a limit to how much torque it can make. The only way it can make high power is through high revs which will make it hopeless in the traffic light grand prix.

It's hard to watch the Ford V8 market slip away while Holden keeps pumping out
so many V8s Commodores.... Holden's V8s are due to get VCT courtesy of the
Vortec Trucks shortly to see them out until 2012 and new V8. It's hard to know
what the future holds now that Gillard is proposing a CO2 tax on vehicles, maybe
it's just political sabre rattling but maybe big cube V8s are looking down the barrels...

Perhaps buyers or lack of them have already sealed the fate of certain cars...
mind you, a cheap and dirty 430 hp from a 6.2 V8 Boss is hard to walk past.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Falc'man

Car A has a flatter, fatter torque curve.

Then theoretically Car A should perform better.

But how much flatter and fatter?

[flappist]

Originally Posted by jpd80

That's right and checking Russell's Tech Resources confirms it, I'll admit that the rest
of the world fell off a financial cliff then too but Holden's V8 sales seems to have
recovered much better in the first half or 2010


Up round Central Queensland, a lot of XR8s and GTs were traded in for SS and HSVs,
Mackay has the largest HSV dealer in the country..


It's hard to watch the Ford V8 market slip away while Holden keeps pumping out
so many V8s Commodores.... Holden's V8s are due to get VCT courtesy of the
Vortec Trucks shortly to see them out until 2012 and new V8. It's hard to know
what the future holds now that Gillard is proposing a CO2 tax on vehicles, maybe
it's just political sabre rattling but maybe big cube V8s are looking down the barrels...

Perhaps buyers or lack of them have already sealed the fate of certain cars...
mind you, a cheap and dirty 430 hp from a 6.2 V8 Boss is hard to walk past.

Yes Mackay is the gateway to CQ coal, lots of very cashed up young bogans.

But how would having a cheap XR8 drag customers away who are already buying high end vehicles such as HSV. Surly FPV is the preferred marque to stand against HSV.

I have yet to hear any argument other than price for any potential XR8 sales and you use an example of a customer base where entry level for P platers is low 6 digit income per year?

Did it ever occur to you that holden sells more V8s than ford because that is all they have?

You are obviously a V8 true believer, if Holden/HSV is so much better why are you driving a Ford?

The F6 is much quicker than all HSVs and significantly cheaper so why don't all of the HSV buyer get F6s instead?

But no one has answered the original question.

If a XR6T can dance with HSV let alone thrash SSV and of course BOSS XR8 and the BOSS XR8 market was dying anyway how will a new N/A smaller capacity XR8 recover this market?

Do you really think that a N/A 5l XR8 will outperform the T6 or a 6l SSV? Really?

And if this XR8 is S/C how would it be different from GS? What is its reason to exist?

[Falc'man]

You grossly overestimate the SS. You know quite well their power drops off a fair bit when the media's done their business.

Originally Posted by flappist

Then theoretically Car A should perform better.

But how much flatter and fatter?

I don't have power curves handy but to give you an idea...

Car A has 529Nm @ 4250rpm
Car B has 530Nm @ 4400rpm

Car A has 307kW @ 6500rpm
Car B has 270kW @ 5600rpm

Car A's power of 307kW, in n.a. form, is just the beginning with plenty of scope. Car B's status on this is the opposite.

You should guess by now which which is which.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by flappist

But no one has answered the original question.

If a XR6T can dance with HSV let alone thrash SSV and of course BOSS XR8 and the BOSS XR8 market was dying anyway how will a new N/A smaller capacity XR8 recover this market?

Do you really think that a N/A 5l XR8 will outperform the T6 or a 6l SSV? Really?

My vote was for a 6.2 Boss V8 with 430 hp and 430 lb ft, something
different to FPV's cars and able to match it with Holden's LS engines.
A cheap, simple crate engine courtesy of F Truck production...

And Flappist,
Those people buying SS Commodores and HSVs that you referred to as " six digit income P platers"
and "cashed up Bogans" is a complete and utter nonsense as those P Platers are prevented
from driving high powered V8s. I think you have just slighted a heap of decent hard working people.

[Auslandau]

My vote is we go back and read what the topic was about? The rest can be discussed else where ..... and which I am sure already is.

[jpd80]

A $57,000 GS with standard brakes for crying out loud.
FPV should have at least offered Brembo brake package as standard.

Apart from that thumbs up for the GS and GT packages.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Very angry if they ever realised that the $57,000 GS
was more than likely supposed to be a $48,000 XR8.......

Actually the only thing that changed was the name. The FPV XR8 was to be the same price.

Originally Posted by flappist

Three observations:

1) There seems to be a fixation on Commodore vs Falcon as though these were the only two vehicles available. Holden have a V8 whatever, Ford must copy.....

2) In the last 8 years Ford V8s have sold mostly to the "nouveau muscle car" market with the GT gradually eroding XR8 sales and outselling F6 2 to 1 despite being significantly slower both on a circuit and straight line.

3) None of the strongly pro XR8 members appear to have bought a new FG XR8 or even a BF XR8. If you, the true believers, wouldn't buy one why do you think others would?

It is interesting that the more expensive performance Fords is were the V8 won, but the cheaper end the I6T won. I guess it could be seen as the buyer with more money doesn't care about outright performance, or the F6 wasn't seen as value for money compared to the XR6T.

[Lukeyson]

Why are people sooking about the brakes on the ENTRY level FPV V8?

I agree they could have been an option, but not standard, got to leave some element of premiumness (is that a word?) to the higher spec models.

BUT was i misreading in wheels when they did the one off 100kph-0 test the GS pulled up just as quick if not a few cms earlier than the GT with the optioned brakes?

Might have been a freak car, but a majority of people who buy these cars probably wont even track them (i havent tracked mine), and the standard brakes would be fine for day to day me thinks

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by flappist

I really do not understand what the fixation with XR8 is. The FG XR8 was a bit of a flop except for the ute as was every single B series V8 model except XR8.

I suspect (though I can't check since no insurance company I can find offers online quotes for the new GS or GT) that insurance will be cost prohibitive to those who live in most of Sydney and drive daily. XR8 for me to insure = $1900. F6 for me to insure, $4800.

[mik]

Originally Posted by Lukeyson

Why are people sooking about the brakes on the ENTRY level FPV V8?

I agree they could have been an option, but not standard, got to leave some element of premiumness (is that a word?) to the higher spec models.

BUT was i misreading in wheels when they did the one off 100kph-0 test the GS pulled up just as quick if not a few cms earlier than the GT with the optioned brakes?

Might have been a freak car, but a majority of people who buy these cars probably wont even track them (i havent tracked mine), and the standard brakes would be fine for day to day me thinks

exactly what i was thinking Lukeyson,
according to the web site gs has high series brakes which are fairly decent 322 mm front........303mm rear

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Lukeyson

Why are people sooking about the brakes on the ENTRY level FPV V8?

FPV is not entry level, it purports to be a whole level above regular Fords and
the addition of better brakes should be seen as one of the very first upgrades.

One hard brake application is not enough to assess a braking systems capacity,
interesting to see how the standard brakes hold up after several hard stops.

Those high series brakes are the same ones that didn't meet NSW Police Highway Patrol specs.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Maybe Ford should have went back to performance PBR for GS.. Atleast red painted calipers with police spec pads. This would have fixed the issue and left Brembos out of the equation..

[kennyboy]

[QUOTE=vztrt]Actually the only thing that changed was the name. The FPV XR8 was to be the same price.


Maybe Daniel is right, i seem to remember other "XRs" going through developement at FPV before being handed over to Ford as straight production line cars, while FPV moved the bar even higher

[flappist]

Originally Posted by jpd80

FPV is not entry level, it purports to be a whole level above regular Fords and
the addition of better brakes should be seen as one of the very first upgrades.

One hard brake application is not enough to assess a braking systems capacity,
interesting to see how the standard brakes hold up after several hard stops.

Those high series brakes are the same ones that didn't meet NSW Police Highway Patrol specs.

I am wondering if that is more a "shut the OHS wombats up" than a "the brakes are not good enough" requirement.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by flappist

I am wondering if that is more a "shut the OHS wombats up" than a "the brakes are not good enough" requirement.

Possibly, braking has a lot to do with safety and OHS could be demanding
a highly competent system that does not fade after repeated stops.

While the bigger front brakes are better, maybe they start to fag out after a couple of hard stops...

[flappist]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Possibly, braking has a lot to do with safety and OHS could be demanding
a highly competent system that does not fade after repeated stops.

But then if the standard brakes are unsafe for NSWPOL then how can they be safe for anyone else?

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by flappist

But then if the standard brakes are unsafe for NSWPOL then how can they be safe for anyone else?

That's right because police never get into high speed pursuits and the ensuing hard braking and cornering...

[flappist]

Originally Posted by jpd80

That's right because police never get into high speed pursuits and the ensuing hard braking and cornering...

No they are not allowed to anymore, OHS won't let them.......

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by flappist

No they are not allowed to anymore, OHS won't let them.......

Because the brakes aren't good enough....

Coppers are still allowed to drive briskly, I had a tip in back of one
to hospital to be with a seriously injured relative.

Now it was late at night and in 60 kph zones but the guy didn't waste any time
and would have be some of the best driving I've ever seen first hand, a real credit.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Because the brakes aren't good enough....

But the already have brembos......are you saying that they are not good enough either?

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by flappist

But the already have brembos......are you saying that they are not good enough either?

Probably not.

On topic,
I critisize FPV for putting standard brakes on the new Supercharged GS
after the previous one had good brakes, I don't follow the logic in that...

[flappist]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Probably not.

So what sort of car do you own? One with brembos?

[jpd80]

Gettin way to personal......

On topic,
I critisize FPV for putting standard brakes on the new Supercharged GS
after the previous one had good brakes, I don't follow the logic in that...


FG R6 but I don't speed.