And who said it wasnt revenue raising.....

[fmc351]

Originally Posted by Bobman

While very slightly OT, may I ask why in Victoria, the camera state. The road toll is currently around the same, if not worse, than at the same time last year and why the road toll has been around the same figure consecutively over the last few years, in fact I'd say it has got much worse with the introduction of more cameras and a lower tolerance.

Perhaps fmc can assist.

Also, for those who say "Don't speed and you'll be fine", what about this:



http://www.policespeedcameras.info/news_vic2.html

www.roadwatch.com.au

What number of cars were on the road LAST year?
How many were involved in accidents?


What number of cars were on the road THIS year?
How many were involved in accidents?

Comparing last years fatality numbers directly with this years numbers is just stupid. There are other variables that effect the outcomes, like number of cars on the road. Deaths per vehicle on the road is a better number to compare, yet still not a complete picture.


And this thread is about police arsenal of unmarked cars, not cameras. No-one here doubt cameras are being used to raise revenue. That is politicians, not police. There is no reason cameras cant be used properly, with the same tolerance as any other laser speed reading devices, placed in locations that merit safety needs. In that situation, they could only be seen as safety m,easures, not revenue raisers. But my bet is everyone will still whinge about the 'principle' of revenue raising. Its not the principle people really have the beef with, its the fact youre going to end being the one paying for it because you cant obey the law.

[Daymoe]

I reckon they should be getting more unmarked cars, but don't make them so sus though. A wider range of cars would be good.

[needaXYGT]

And this thread is about police arsenal of unmarked cars, not cameras.

revenue, its all the same.

something i noticed on the western ring road today was the positioning of a speed camera!
This camera is placed just after one of those variable speed limit signs. Today, the previous variable speed sign (the one before the one that has a camera just after) was reading 100kph, and the one with the camera just after happened to be reading 80kph, and then all of a sudden, the next variable speed limit sign (about 1.5kph down the road) was reading 100kph! I couldnt see any reason for the speed to be dropped back, in fact all it did was cause tail gating!
Now this camera placed after the speed sign may not give people enough time to slow down, especialy a truck with a heavy load.
Very devious if you ask me!

[Interceptor]

with all the cop bashing going on, people seem to have forgotten the important part in my original post

PREVENTION is better than the cure

fining people wont stop them speeding, talking on mobile phones, not wearing seatbelts, etc, etc

why not? because human nature makes them think "pfft, whats the chances of me getting caught?"

if they see marked cars EVEYWHERE they look, they'll be too paranoid to do anything illegal

but hey, the money for politicians big dollar banquets, overseas "fact finding" junkets and free air travel has to come from somewhere, right?

an example:

recently there were 3 marked cars with radars patrolling a 60km stretch of highway in central qld at the same time, just a few km apart, and more than a couple of people got caught speeding twice on the same trip, including a friend of mine, and he, like a lot of others is now so paranoid about his speed its bordering on comical, and word was getting around like wildfire

ok, so a few people got caught, a lot didnt, but everyone took notice of the increased police presence on that particular stretch of highway, and i'll bet a years pay that it slowed a LOT of people down......

[1sikxt]

someone should make repo cop badges that look real that way when a cop pulls u over u just show it to them and they'll let you go

[Daymoe]

Originally Posted by Interceptor

with all the cop bashing going on, people seem to have forgotten the important part in my original post

PREVENTION is better than the cure

fining people wont stop them speeding, talking on mobile phones, not wearing seatbelts, etc, etc

why not? because human nature makes them think "pfft, whats the chances of me getting caught?"

if they see marked cars EVEYWHERE they look, they'll be too paranoid to do anything illegal

but hey, the money for politicians big dollar banquets, overseas "fact finding" junkets and free air travel has to come from somewhere, right?

an example:

recently there were 3 marked cars with radars patrolling a 60km stretch of highway in central qld at the same time, just a few km apart, and more than a couple of people got caught speeding twice on the same trip, including a friend of mine, and he, like a lot of others is now so paranoid about his speed its bordering on comical, and word was getting around like wildfire

ok, so a few people got caught, a lot didnt, but everyone took notice of the increased police presence on that particular stretch of highway, and i'll bet a years pay that it slowed a LOT of people down......

Raise the fine to $15,000 for 5kph over and see how many people decide to speed then

[Interceptor]

Originally Posted by 90sFTW

Raise the fine to $15,000 for 5kph over and see how many people decide to speed then

and watch the number of unpaid fines go through the roof, and the courts get clogged with people protesting fines, etc

[Daymoe]

Originally Posted by Interceptor

and watch the number of unpaid fines go through the roof, and the courts get clogged with people protesting fines, etc

Then change the penalty for not paying the fine 5 years in jail ;)

You know im not being serious don't you?

[knighto42]

Originally Posted by Interceptor

if they see marked cars EVEYWHERE they look, they'll be too paranoid to do anything illegal

The whole point of this is for them to get the word out there that EVERY car on the road (marked or unmarked) could be a cop. What better way to get people paranoid than to make them think EVERY car they see could be a cop?

[daneightball]

All these arguments sound great but the fact is until they change the design laws so that all new vehicles sold must have a 100% accuracy on their speedo then all of the rest of the arguments for radars or other means of catching people speeding is ridiculous. We have adds in QLD saying every K over is a killer, I can be driving a car at 100 and be doing 110 is just bull @#&@. How can these same people that get on and spout all this rubbish about how we are just trying to save lives yet still allow the manufacturers to give you a car that can Legally go 10% faster than you think you are doing and then you get picked up for speeding.

So what is the answer I mean where are the adds saying come on everyone lets stop the government allowing people to build and sell supposedly roadworthy and legal cars that "speed" it is just STUPID.

[dom_105]

Originally Posted by fmc351

Speed doesnt kill, its not the monster its made out to be, is that your argument hidden in there? Only an idiot believes that, hit a pole at 15km/h, youll likely be fine. Do it at 100 and what? Drive at 15 and how much time do you have to react to something immediately in front of you, how long does it take to stop? Now try it at 100, you dont have the same time to react and stopping takes longer. Obviously speed is an important fact. Oh and before someone waffles, Im not suggesting driving at 15.

Point, the difference between doing 25 and 100 is not 4 times. Theres an additional effect so clearly every K over is a factor in the right, or wrong, circumstances.

What youre really saying is drivers can keep doing 110 in roadworks, because speed doesnt kill? We could buzz schools at 100 in 60 zones, maybe do away with speed limits and let every driver decide for themselves based on their needs alone. A speed camera on Footscray Rd isnt going to help on Warrigal Rd is it? I would think that roadworks and schools are the best place for speed cameras. Certainly it couldnt be revenue raising then, it truly has the safety aspect covered. See, you clearly dont understand your own revenue raising argument, its just a sound-bite you dont understand.

It's not about people who do 20kms over the limit, I'm sure most would accept that they only have themselves to blame.

It's about the people who are just driving along, doing their own thing, and might creep a couple of clicks over the limit, maybe on the freeway, maybe passing a truck in an overtaking lane or whatever other situation, and having the boys in blue coming down on them like a tonne of bricks.

The Victorian Government will have you believe that if you go 3 kms over the limit you will die. And if by some freak of nature you do not, you should be punished for paying too much attention on the road and not enough attention on your speedo. The whole mentality is wrong.

[daneightball]

Originally Posted by dom_105

It's not about people who do 20kms over the limit, I'm sure most would accept that they only have themselves to blame.

It's about the people who are just driving along, doing their own thing, and might creep a couple of clicks over the limit, maybe on the freeway, maybe passing a truck in an overtaking lane or whatever other situation, and having the boys in blue coming down on them like a tonne of bricks.

The Victorian Government will have you believe that if you go 3 kms over the limit you will die. And if by some freak of nature you do not, you should be punished for paying too much attention on the road and not enough attention on your speedo. The whole mentality is wrong.

Exactly the mentality is wrong because it is all about punishment and not even doing the basics to stop the situation in the first place.

[knighto42]

Kinda O/T, but you'll find the ADR's on speedo's say that they're not allowed to read a speed less than the true speed of the car. ie. They can't read 110 when you're really doing 120.

I also vaguely remember (someone correct me if I'm wrong) that speedos are also designed to fail in the other direction to what you're saying. That is, that they're designed to fail to read more than the true speed of the car when they fail as opposed to less than the true speed.

[daneightball]

Originally Posted by knighto42

Kinda O/T, but you'll find the ADR's on speedo's say that they're not allowed to read a speed less than the true speed of the car. ie. They can't read 110 when you're really doing 120.

I also vaguely remember (someone correct me if I'm wrong) that speedos are also designed to fail in the other direction to what you're saying. That is, that they're designed to fail to read more than the true speed of the car when they fail as opposed to less than the true speed.

The problem is that the design laws state that they must be within a toerance of +/-10% so they can legally be wrong from the start and not fail with age

[knighto42]

The old ADR's say that. The new ones say that the speedo can over-read by 4kph + 10%, but can't under-read.

Anyway - like I said it's not really the point. I can see where you're coming from.

[Interceptor]

Originally Posted by knighto42

The whole point of this is for them to get the word out there that EVERY car on the road (marked or unmarked) could be a cop. What better way to get people paranoid than to make them think EVERY car they see could be a cop?

same reason that fines, etc dont work as an effective deterrent...... people have the "what you dont see wont hurt you" mentality, and that is nigh on impossible to change

[fmc351]

Originally Posted by dom_105

It's not about people who do 20kms over the limit, I'm sure most would accept that they only have themselves to blame.

It's about the people who are just driving along, doing their own thing, and might creep a couple of clicks over the limit, maybe on the freeway, maybe passing a truck in an overtaking lane or whatever other situation, and having the boys in blue coming down on them like a tonne of bricks.

The Victorian Government will have you believe that if you go 3 kms over the limit you will die. And if by some freak of nature you do not, you should be punished for paying too much attention on the road and not enough attention on your speedo. The whole mentality is wrong.

What aspect of policing are you rambling about? The thread is primarily on unmarked cars. Yes we know about cameras, theyve been done to death.

Regardless, Im exposed to the same driving conditions as any other motorist, I have no special exemptions, I manage to keep from speeding and avoid accidents. If keeping to a speed limit is that hard, maybe reconsider your suitability to have a licence.

Originally Posted by daneightball

Exactly the mentality is wrong because it is all about punishment and not even doing the basics to stop the situation in the first place.

How?

Youve been told dont speed. Everyone has. Exactly how do they stop it in the first place? You want them to ride along, like the learner driver car with passenger side foot controls?

Originally Posted by daneightball

All these arguments sound great but the fact is until they change the design laws so that all new vehicles sold must have a 100% accuracy on their speedo then all of the rest of the arguments for radars or other means of catching people speeding is ridiculous. We have adds in QLD saying every K over is a killer, I can be driving a car at 100 and be doing 110 is just bull @#&@. How can these same people that get on and spout all this rubbish about how we are just trying to save lives yet still allow the manufacturers to give you a car that can Legally go 10% faster than you think you are doing and then you get picked up for speeding.

Youre just wrong mate. Something is bull @#&@, but it isnt what you think.

The standards allowing error on speedos goes one way only. Speedos cant read lower than reality, as in they cant read 95 when youre really doing 100, that is law. They can only read a higher than actual speed, say 100 when youre really doing 95. Therefore speedo error should never be responsible for a speeding fine.

Its always the same old tired arguments steeped in ignorance.


And anyone dumb enough to put forward an argument older cars have a different standard, might want to think before shooting the mouth off. The result of any such focus will be added reason to pull older cars off the road, or force owners to fit up to new standard equipment for RWC.

[kpcart]

anyone who complains that its revenue raising is a STUPID IDIOT. of course its revenue raising, playing at the stupidity of people that wont respect the law. How easy is this, DON'T SPEED AND YOU WON'T GET FINED. retards, its that simple. SPEEDING FINES ARE A VOLUNTARY TAX, get that in your thick heads, its a public road, you dont own it, and you have a licence to drive on it, and it entails you FOLLOW SIMPLE RULES LIKE OBEYING SPEED LIMITS. Total retards here on australia roads, and its pretty damn easy to see the the nutcases speeding are the ones likely to end up in an accident, and more often then not they do, although not always fatal, but if they do die because of breaking a simple rule and speeding, i have no sympathy for them and feel sorry for their families who have to live with the knowledge their loved one died because of idiocy, or arragant egotistical idiocy like some people in this forum who feel they have some sort of god-given right to drive fast on PUBLIC roads.

[dishpig]

Okay this is my first reply to one of these threads,

All I'd like to say is speedings fines and stuff is ok but I beleave 10K's is acceptable (frowned apon though ofcourse) but seriously how many peolple have died becuase of someone going 4k's over the limit, everyone know's engineers and people like them like to cover themselves legaly so they exagerate on things like that.

2ND of all yes cops should be on the road but more cops should be looking for robberies, rape, murder, drugs, guns, underage drinking and all that I know for a fact that people who commit these crimes often get away with it and cops often are too busy to help. I'd rather have the security of knowing that the person who killed my loved one was bought to justice then then the fact that some guy got caught 12k's over was fined.

The only reason I can see that cops focus so much on driving and speeding is that it's easier, It's easier to catch people speeding and people running red lights then to catch people commiting robberies, I could name name half my old school mates (not my mates ofcourse) that now commit household robberies and have never even been questioned.

Now before you do gooders fight back and conplain how I'm ignoring the fact that speed kills ect. ect. think about this what would you rather some guy speeding by your street your losing half your possesions and your self respect by rape.

How much has speed camera's etc. reduced the the road toll?

[sleekism]

Originally Posted by kpcart

anyone who complains that its revenue raising is a STUPID IDIOT. of course its revenue raising, playing at the stupidity of people that wont respect the law. How easy is this, DON'T SPEED AND YOU WON'T GET FINED. retards, its that simple. SPEEDING FINES ARE A VOLUNTARY TAX, get that in your thick heads, its a public road, you dont own it, and you have a licence to drive on it, and it entails you FOLLOW SIMPLE RULES LIKE OBEYING SPEED LIMITS. Total retards here on australia roads, and its pretty damn easy to see the the nutcases speeding are the ones likely to end up in an accident, and more often then not they do, although not always fatal, but if they do die because of breaking a simple rule and speeding, i have no sympathy for them and feel sorry for their families who have to live with the knowledge their loved one died because of idiocy, or arragant egotistical idiocy like some people in this forum who feel they have some sort of god-given right to drive fast on PUBLIC roads.

Your a d1ck mate.

It's not about whether speeding is right or wrong it's whether the Government and media obsession with speed is justified.

We are not talking about 100 kays over the limit we are talking about 10 kays. As a motorcyclist I would rather everyone be scanning the road and not running me over rather than ensuring that they are not breaking the limit by 5 kays.

You are also forgetting that 90% of roads aren't speed patrolled so we have a situation where you have 10,000 highway patrol cars and speed cameras patrolling the highway nabbing people for doing 5 kays over the limit and nearby on a backroad you have Joe Blog running his Commodore off the clock.

I would rather see a greater emphasis on RBT's. It scares me leaving the pub to see all these drunks get in their car and drive away without a worry in the world. There are plenty of cops around but they are busy following p platers. No joke.

[HSE2]

Originally Posted by kpcart

anyone who complains that its revenue raising is a STUPID IDIOT. of course its revenue raising, playing at the stupidity of people that wont respect the law. How easy is this, DON'T SPEED AND YOU WON'T GET FINED. retards, its that simple. SPEEDING FINES ARE A VOLUNTARY TAX, get that in your thick heads, its a public road, you dont own it, and you have a licence to drive on it, and it entails you FOLLOW SIMPLE RULES LIKE OBEYING SPEED LIMITS. Total retards here on australia roads, and its pretty damn easy to see the the nutcases speeding are the ones likely to end up in an accident, and more often then not they do, although not always fatal, but if they do die because of breaking a simple rule and speeding, i have no sympathy for them and feel sorry for their families who have to live with the knowledge their loved one died because of idiocy, or arragant egotistical idiocy like some people in this forum who feel they have some sort of god-given right to drive fast on PUBLIC roads.

Cut the abuse. You can state your opinion without it.

[dave289]

Originally Posted by kpcart

anyone who complains that its revenue raising is a STUPID IDIOT. of course its revenue raising, playing at the stupidity of people that wont respect the law. How easy is this, DON'T SPEED AND YOU WON'T GET FINED. retards, its that simple. SPEEDING FINES ARE A VOLUNTARY TAX, get that in your thick heads, its a public road, you dont own it, and you have a licence to drive on it, and it entails you FOLLOW SIMPLE RULES LIKE OBEYING SPEED LIMITS. Total retards here on australia roads, and its pretty damn easy to see the the nutcases speeding are the ones likely to end up in an accident, and more often then not they do, although not always fatal, but if they do die because of breaking a simple rule and speeding, i have no sympathy for them and feel sorry for their families who have to live with the knowledge their loved one died because of idiocy, or arragant egotistical idiocy like some people in this forum who feel they have some sort of god-given right to drive fast on PUBLIC roads.

.
What do you call a deer with no eyes?........no eye deer.

[MITCHAY]

Originally Posted by dave289

.
What do you call a deer with no eyes?........no eye deer.

PMSL :

[Bobman]

Originally Posted by kpcart

anyone who complains that its revenue raising is a STUPID IDIOT. of course its revenue raising, playing at the stupidity of people that wont respect the law. How easy is this, DON'T SPEED AND YOU WON'T GET FINED.

I guess this cockroach thinks cameras work 100% perfectly all of the time.

Remember the Western Ring Road fiasco?

Or even this excerpt I posted earlier:

Speed camera readings can be distorted by metal signs, fences, walls and even Australia Post letter boxes, according to a secret police document.

[XA-Coupe]

now now, it's starting to get personal .... that means it'll go the way all these threads always do ....

[Bobman]

Back on topic though.

Who has seen the semi marked cars Victoria Police use?

I think they're a good idea, as it's a balance between marked and unmarked and still provides a police presence and the stickers are not able to be seen if it is driving behind you.

[VSSII]

Originally Posted by sleekism

Quite easily the best quote of the thread!

Lets see what has topped the media concern this week: A boy who had a party and caused some damage.

For frigs sake there are people getting raped, stabbed, murdered and robbed.

People say well if you complain don't expect cops to come help you if your in trouble. WELL THEY DONT!

I'm sorry but that is the truth. I have been in trouble and so have family and friends which I won't elaborate on but they have always been "too busy".
Ever tried ringing the police while someone is breaking into your house?? They will be a few hours later to arrest you for assaulting the robber.

I have an uncle who was a detective and he tells me the highway patrol are a bunch of (insert explicits). I know many cops are good blokes but remember they follow orders!

In my work I have had to do things which in my conscience seem like I'm being a t0$$er but hey you have to get paid.

The change needs to come from the top. Both parties are as worse as each other so what is needed is to get the media on side.

We need a p plater here to be tempted into a race by the cops and then the cop who is racing needs to run over someone. That will do it.

Don't for a second think that there aren't bigger things going on with the police or that this is where all the finances and resources are going. It's only because of all the whingers that traffic enforcement gets so much media attention. Those that have absolutely no idea just lap it up at media outlets and websites such as this and take what they read as gospel. :MrT_anim: I truly believe we have overtaken the Brits as the biggest whingers.

[falconfire]

Originally Posted by SPK-250

Everytime i see news of this nature, a song by "Rage Against the Machine" always pops into my head.



Meanwhile houses are getting broken into, cars getting stolen, people getting assaulted etc etc

Are there any other Firies or ambo's on this site?

Meanwhile two P plater's were racing in ute's in north Sydeny one lost control and slammed into a sedan with a grandmother and a baby in it..... the baby died on scene.

I get caught speeding and its tough luck it doesnt matter who catches you, what car there in or what it has on it, you broke the law, although i do admit 5ks over is silly.

take your car to a race track that way you only kill yourself

[dom_105]

Originally Posted by fmc351

Regardless, Im exposed to the same driving conditions as any other motorist, I have no special exemptions, I manage to keep from speeding and avoid accidents. If keeping to a speed limit is that hard, maybe reconsider your suitability to have a licence.

Hey, keeping to the limit is easy, if you are watching your speedo all the time.

And you have to spend more time watching the speedo instead of the road if you don't want to get fined these days. Because nobody can tell the difference between doing, say, 100 which is acceptable on a Freeway, and 104 which is akin to a criminal act, without looking down at the speedo every two seconds.

[fmc351]

Originally Posted by dom_105

Hey, keeping to the limit is easy, if you are watching your speedo all the time.

And you have to spend more time watching the speedo instead of the road if you don't want to get fined these days. Because nobody can tell the difference between doing, say, 100 which is acceptable on a Freeway, and 104 which is akin to a criminal act, without looking down at the speedo every two seconds.

I dont have that problem. Takes no more time to glance at the speedo than it does to check a mirror, I do that regularly enough too, not just when I change lanes.


You sound like an old woman huddled over the wheel scared of her own shadow, is that you Nanna?