Flash Tune XR8 AUIII

[RG]

Originally Posted by Sox

I'm sure you do, however you'd have even more with some decent tri-y's.
My own 342 also has 4-1's, and I'll be ditching them in favour of a hand made set of tri-y's at the next opportunity. It also has mountain of low down torque, though it too will have even more with the tri-y's.

It's correct for any engine at anything other than race rpm ranges.
The Windsor is hardly a heavy breather.

When you get them done are you able to get a before and after dyno sheet done? I'd be interested to see where the differences are in the torque and power curve.

[FTE72]

Originally Posted by Sox

I strongly disagree with this.
Tri-y's will outperform 4-1's on a road going car all the time.
4-1's are only of benefit if you're constantly spinning beyond 6000rpm, and on up to 8000rpm. Not too many road cars dance around on these revs often, and those that can, still predominantly sit at lower revs.

Below 6000rpm tri-y's are better, no question.

I agree and disagree with you.
Reason is, I would put tri y's on this particular XR manual, but I have 4-1's on my TE, and they are better for it, with the system I have, and the power delivery that I want. It is a manual.
But I would have the Tri Y on it if it was an auto.
The hand made set you are going to get are obviously the best solution in any case, as they will be specifically designed for your application, and no doubt would be better than off the shelf items.
Looking at your sig and RWKW on that Pursuit, you need a new system.IMO. and perhaps the paricular headers on it are not as good as they could be? Or are they just the factory 4-1's?

OP. Yes I had car dynoed before and after, and made gains accross the range.

[Sox]

Originally Posted by CARLO5

With either the tri-y's or the 4-1's did any of you guys have ur car dyno'd before and after to see where exactly the gains were made. Or are you's just talking about what you "felt" after having them put on?

I've used both over the years, and tri-y's have always run slightly better numbers in my street driven vehicles.
On the road, they feel much livelier down low.

It's not just my opinion anyhow, it's been a proven fact forever and a day.
Tri-Yy's are the choice for street driven engines up to 6000rpm.
4-1's are for race engines where 6000-8000rpm and more is seen regularly.
I'm not sure why this is even being discussed, it's common knowledge as I see it.

[Sox]

Originally Posted by Russell

When you get them done are you able to get a before and after dyno sheet done? I'd be interested to see where the differences are in the torque and power curve.

Yep, that will be possible.

[Sox]

Originally Posted by FTE72

I agree and disagree with you.
Reason is, I would put tri y's on this particular XR manual, but I have 4-1's on my TE, and they are better for it, with the system I have, and the power delivery that I want. It is a manual.

So I assume you spin your engine to 6000-8000rpm (and beyond) regularly?
As that is the only rev range where a 4-1 is better.

But I would have the Tri Y on it if it was an auto.
The hand made set you are going to get are obviously the best solution in any case, as they will be specifically designed for your application, and no doubt would be better than off the shelf items.

The same exhaust guru can hand make me 4-1's if I wanted.
I know myself that I won't be spinning my engine beyond 6000rpm in the short term, and even if I did wish to go to 7000rpm chasing big power later, that there might only be a small 1000rpm window which they will be slightly lower in power. I can live with that for the far greater felxibilty they have in the rev range which is used 95% of the time.

The mentioned exhaust guru also maintains that a tri-y are the best for road use for the reasons I've already given.
As does any exhaust guy worth anything.

Looking at your sig and RWKW on that Pursuit, you need a new system.IMO.

Oh, no question, the system on it is utter junk, but that's not what we're discussing here.

and perhaps the paricular headers on it are not as good as they could be? Or are they just the factory 4-1's?

They're just the factory headers. Regardless of that, see my comments above.

The bottom line here is that both headers work well for there intended application. One set for race use, one set for road use.
I think the problem lie in that most people aren't honest to themselves and like to think they have some kind of race car.
What works on the track, doesn't work on the road.

Ask yourself, how often is the tacho showing more than 6000rpm?

[RG]

Sox it may be an idea to re read before you post, that last one came across as highly argumentative.

This is all your opinion, and you are welcome to that, but as I said my opinion is that the what I have on mine is what seems to work for mine. My dyno results back this up as do my 1/4 results, remember I have an intake and TB that is a lot more restrictive than a T3/P250 yet I still make more power.

[Sox]

Originally Posted by Russell

Sox it may be an idea to re read before you post, that last one came across as highly argumentative.

Oh well, if saying it just like it is, is argumentative, what can you do.....

This is all your opinion, and you are welcome to that, but as I said my opinion is that the what I have on mine is what seems to work for mine.

So it 'seems' to work, or it actually does work?

My dyno results back this up as do my 1/4 results, remember I have an intake and TB that is a lot more restrictive than a T3/P250 yet I still make more power.

Fine, though with all due respect (dare I get accused of being argumentative again), were your own tests done back to back on the same day using 2 sets of well designed 4-1's and tri-y's?
In a nutshell, were you comparing apples with apples under proper conditions?
I'm not really interested in what 'seems' right.

As I said, this is well documented stuff, and not just an opinion plucked from my rear end.

[FTE72]

My experience and results tells me differently for my car and application. But obviously you have a very black and white view, and I will not bite. I don't care to argue.
OP. As I said, I would fit tri-y on a stock XR.

[RG]

Originally Posted by Sox

Oh well, if saying it just like it is, is argumentative, what can you do.....

Rethink, reword, retype would be my guess....

Originally Posted by Sox

So it 'seems' to work, or it actually does work?

My dyno sheet is posted up in my build thread, 1/4 time is in my signature. You tell me.

Originally Posted by Sox

Fine, though with all due respect (dare I get accused of being argumentative again), were your own tests done back to back on the same day using 2 sets of well designed 4-1's and tri-y's?
In a nutshell, were you comparing apples with apples under proper conditions?
I'm not really interested in what 'seems' right.

As I said, this is well documented stuff, and not just an opinion plucked from my rear end.

Sox I never accused you of being argumentative, I said that is how your post came across. You being overly defensive and somewhat antagonistic about it makes me think it was worded exactly the way you wanted it to be.

If you so strongly feel the need to prove your opinion as fact then I am happy for you to send me a set of good Tri-Y's and I will do back to back testing of them.

My headers are the old Herrod/Di Fillipo ones, much R&D work went into what would be best for the AU XR8 (people can say what they want about Herrod but the fact they research and have very good products can never be disputed) so they went with this design 4>1 header.

[fordAU]

The old Tri-y Vs 4-1 discussions never end.. still makes interesting reading though.

After speaking with Pacemaker they recommended Tri-y ( PH4001 ) for my 220 manual, to tell you the truth I was not 100% happy with them.
The vehicle just felt a bit toned down if that makes sense, it felt like it lost its urgency.
Still went well, plenty of torque but lost its aggro, made it a more pleasant vehicle to drive but thats not what I was looking for.

This changed after fitting a SS inductions CAI, don't ask me why but it transformed the vehicle, the aggro was back, breathed very nicely and was back to its old self but with plenty more go, no question on that.

Having said that if I was going to do it all again, which I won't be on this vehicle anyway I would go with Pacemaker PH4006 on a manual vehicle.
I just think the Tri-y design whilst better than the factory effort is still perhaps more restrictive than the 4-1 design.

Just my opinion for whats its worth.

[Sox]

Originally Posted by Russell

Rethink, reword, retype would be my guess....

Nah, I like it how it is. We all see things different, I'm ok with that.

My dyno sheet is posted up in my build thread, 1/4 time is in my signature. You tell me.

Sox I never accused you of being argumentative, I said that is how your post came across. You being overly defensive and somewhat antagonistic about it makes me think it was worded exactly the way you wanted it to be.

Fine, I think your post comes across as a bit too sensitive towards my post.
We'll agree to disagree, sound fair?

If you so strongly feel the need to prove your opinion as fact then I am happy for you to send me a set of good Tri-Y's and I will do back to back testing of them.

No problem, you send me a good set of 4-1's and we have a deal. Let the testing begin.

My headers are the old Herrod/Di Fillipo ones, much R&D work went into what would be best for the AU XR8 (people can say what they want about Herrod but the fact they research and have very good products can never be disputed) so they went with this design 4>1 header.

And the people I have spoken to about say different things.
The old engine builder that I once worked for has been in the game for just over 30 years, spent more hours on dynos than we can poke a stick at.
And the exhaust guru mentioned earlier has been making headers and exhaust systems for perhaps similar number of years.

Both of them agree that most 4-1's are used because they are easier and cheaper to make. A good tri-y is a complex unit and has more science to it. But when done right, provide the rewards.

They know there business, and it correlates with almost everything that is written on the subject.

I'm not worried about you guys using what you want to use, but when it goes against what's been researched and documented over a lot of years, it's a bit hard to swallow from a handfull of quick and dirty tests.

Anyway, I'll give it a rest if you want, contrary to what you think I'm not interested in arguing about it. But when I see something wrong, I try to clear it up, don't you?

[RG]

OK Sox, you're right and anyone that has a differing opinion must be wrong.


I think it is time to drop the header debate.

[Sox]

Some basic info if anyone cares to look....

http://www.hmheaders.com.au/index.ph...ical-Info.html

http://www.advanceheaders.com.au/

http://www.impulsengine.com/how/header.shtml

http://www.pacemaker.com.au/faq.html

http://www.speedpartz.com/techarticle_triy.htm

http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles...que/index.html

[CRAIGAU3220]

Originally Posted by CRAIGAU3220

Forget the nancy boy try Y design PH4001, Go the PH4006 Competition headers they are tuned length 4 into one with 2.5 inch collector you will get a little bit more up top with no loss down low in either torque or HP.
Just the shot for your manual 220 !!

Regards, Craig.

Jeepers creepers !! Looks like i kicked a hornets nest.
I hope there is no ill feelings between the people that took part in today's spirited debate.

Thanks for the informative links, Sox.

My decision to go the 4into1 paceys was made on the advice from a exhaust shop worker that owned a 200kw au ute and had the luxury to do back to back swap overs between try y and 4 into 1 pacemakers, On their own in house dyno. Just to add to my original post, He also said on the street the try y may have felt a little more torquey but thought it may be his imagination because it didn't show on their dyno.

Regards, Craig.

[Whoosha]

MMM leave the stockies on it like me : and come play anyway : :

[Sox]

Originally Posted by CRAIGAU3220

Jeepers creepers !! Looks like i kicked a hornets nest.
I hope there is no ill feelings between the people that took part in today's spirited debate.

Just part of the normal routine from my end, dunno why people get cranky, maybe they need to take a lie down. :

Thanks for the informative links, Sox.

No problem, there's info around, but it's hard to find.

Next time I drop in to see my exhaust bloke I'll see if he has some info to post back here.

[Sox]

Originally Posted by Whoosha

MMM leave the stockies on it like me : and come play anyway : :

That's what I'm doing for now, the Pursuit has short 4-1's and whilst not ideal, they're not horrible either. At least the primary pipes are a good size at 1 5/8".

The rest of the system is crap though.