Burnt out clutch

roosterfan · 19-11-2009, 10:24 AM

Hi everyone,

Long story short, I left my very well maintained Focus in the hands of a valet parker at the sheriton on the Park hotel in Sydney. The car had just received a comprehensive ford service the previous week and was driving beautifully.

When we went to pick the car up we discovered it on the side of a ramp at the boom gates on an uphill exit with a disintergrated clutch, the dealer upon evaluating says it is the worst clucth he has ever seen, and a warped / cracked fly wheel. The car was incredibly hot for a car that had only been driven a coupl of hundred meters.

The car was obviously not in this condition when we left it with the hotel but the hotel management is claiming that it is due to normal wear and tear and wont pay for the repair. How can I prove that a clutch has been burnt out by improper use.

Thanks to anyone who can help.

Gary Anderson

TUF351 · 19-11-2009, 12:43 PM

That is crazy. Perhaps try and get a statement from your dealer, verifying the condition of the car the previous week and perhaps get them to indicate that if this was normal wear and tear the vehicle would not have made it to the hotel in the first place. I would then take this to a solicitor.

I'll make sure I won't stay at this hotel again.

GULL · 19-11-2009, 10:36 PM

Nice,thats the age we live in these days,who gives a if you dont own it.You have bucklys of getting any moeny out of the hotel,so next time park the car yourself,you will save money and you car getting trashed.

jaydee · 19-11-2009, 10:39 PM

I bet there's security footage from the car park, you might be able to get it under the Freedom of Information Act, not sure if it applies only to Govt agencies though.

Mr Hardware · 19-11-2009, 10:42 PM

Never mind the fact that the clutch is probably the original and over a hundred thousand kay old

take it in your stride old son

sprint347dave · 19-11-2009, 10:49 PM

its not really a proper clutch,,because its only behind half an engine,,haha,,

deesun · 20-11-2009, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sprint347dave

its not really a proper clutch,,because its only behind half an engine,,haha,,

Funny post. Of course not so funny to the original poster.

**cs123** · 20-11-2009, 09:10 AM

Can't imagine why the staff would want to thrash your focus.

I think it's probably bad timing for the Sheraton that they had your car when it failed.

mik · 20-11-2009, 09:28 AM

i would`nt like to try and prove fault , its possible the car drove into the ford workshop with out any trouble and they missed it, or perhaps the valet had a grudge against ford focus cars, or maybe its simply started to fail on the ramp and the dopey valet give it heaps to get it up the ramp, bear in mind that sometimes a clutch job needs to have the flywheel machined in any event and when was your last clutch replacement ? if you`ve had a good run out of that clutch i think i`d just wear it and maybe not use that valet again.

outback_ute · 20-11-2009, 04:47 PM

Welcome to the Forums Gary, sorry to hear of the damage to the car. To address some of the points above, how old and how many km has the car done? The condition of the flywheel shows it must have copped some abuse. When you say disintegrated clutch, was the car driveable at that point?

If you can get a letter from the Ford dealer on the condition of the car at the service and a report on its condition now, having a solicitor approach the hotel might get a favourable outcome, even getting part of the cost of the repair would be a win.

I've witnessed 'hoon' behaviour from hotel staff myself, there was also the case of the Porsche crashed at Crown Casino in Melb a few years ago. http://www.theage.com.au/articles/20...om=moreStories

roosterfan · 20-11-2009, 11:54 PM

Hi, as a first time user I thank those with constructive comments. I have now had the clutch, pressure plate and fly wheel examined, I'll attach photos next week. Too those who say iot's only half an engine, me to wish i had an 8 but not all wishes come true.
The car is exactly 3 years old, 1 week out of warranty and this event happened 1 week after a major 60k service, I have been the only driver and the thing was fine on all accounts

Now:
There is no clutch plate left what so ever, no material at all, disintergrated, it is in about 5 pieces even the rivets have been sheared off there is absolutely no pad material left. The pressure plate is cracked completely through in 3 places and the fly wheel warped beyond repair. The Ford service manager, the mechanics at the dealer and from other service centres have all stated that they have never seen such damage caused to a clutch, pressure plate, fly wheel assembly before. A rep from ford has said that this was not caused by wear and tear but a single over heated incident, probably creating more then 800 Deg C, heat in extremely quick time whilst under very high revs.
All of this and I'm up against a hotel Manager who clearly states that he has no mechanical knowledge but is sure that I must have driven the car to, and left the car with his valet parker in this condition, amazing how they were able to drive the car away, park it and then drive it back up 2 ramps before having to stop at a boom gate mid way up a exit ramp where this all happened. I understand that a forum can only offer advise and I guess to an extent I am only offering advise to those who are considering staying at a hotel, if you go there, go by cab. To better this the manager of the hotel has offered a 50% payment if I don't tell anyone that it happened. Shhhh.
Cheers

Yellow_Festiva · 21-11-2009, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roosterfan

Hi, as a first time user I thank those with constructive comments. I have now had the clutch, pressure plate and fly wheel examined, I'll attach photos next week. Too those who say iot's only half an engine, me to wish i had an 8 but not all wishes come true.
The car is exactly 3 years old, 1 week out of warranty and this event happened 1 week after a major 60k service, I have been the only driver and the thing was fine on all accounts

Now:
There is no clutch plate left what so ever, no material at all, disintergrated, it is in about 5 pieces even the rivets have been sheared off there is absolutely no pad material left. The pressure plate is cracked completely through in 3 places and the fly wheel warped beyond repair. The Ford service manager, the mechanics at the dealer and from other service centres have all stated that they have never seen such damage caused to a clutch, pressure plate, fly wheel assembly before. A rep from ford has said that this was not caused by wear and tear but a single over heated incident, probably creating more then 800 Deg C, heat in extremely quick time whilst under very high revs.
All of this and I'm up against a hotel Manager who clearly states that he has no mechanical knowledge but is sure that I must have driven the car to, and left the car with his valet parker in this condition, amazing how they were able to drive the car away, park it and then drive it back up 2 ramps before having to stop at a boom gate mid way up a exit ramp where this all happened. I understand that a forum can only offer advise and I guess to an extent I am only offering advise to those who are considering staying at a hotel, if you go there, go by cab. To better this the manager of the hotel has offered a 50% payment if I don't tell anyone that it happened. Shhhh.
Cheers

Do not back down. They will do anything at all to get out of paying for the repair. If you are youngish, they will think you are meek and easily pushed over. Stand your ground, keep civil at all times, keep professional in your approaches to them and most of all, keep detailed and correct records of everything said.

I'm guessing this repair will not be cheap?

The life of a clutch is hard to determine, however if you have respected and maintained your car than 60,000km is nothing.

I got over 200,000km on the factory clutch of my Festiva, and it was only changed due to the fact that the engine was being pulled out and put into another car I bought cheap after an accident.

Prior to that it had never been taken up to get every last bit of use, and it never displayed any signs of wear and tear.

I would also be trying to seek legal help. Are you a member of a union? They used to sometimes offer members a one off consultation per year for general advice. Have you a chamber magistrate you can go and visit?

Don't give up. You gave them the keys to your pride and joy in good faith. From what you describe they have grossly abused your car and should be made to pay. Bugger the 50%....

Keep us posted.

Jason

roosterfan · 23-11-2009, 05:05 PM

Thanks Jason,
I have sent the report from Ford to the hotel today, lets see what happens.
I have also posted photos http://www.fordforums.com.au/photos/...ppuser=2149826 , go to gallery search roosterfan and the clutch and pressure plates are there.

Cheers
Gary

KR1STO · 23-11-2009, 05:34 PM

jeeezus... thats one cooked clutch...
hope it all works out bud..

Jesk · 23-11-2009, 07:57 PM

far out, mate i cant see how you could have possibly driven that to the hotel like they have suggested, hope you get it sorted out in your favour!

351capri · 23-11-2009, 08:23 PM

sounds like the moron valet tried to take off up the ramp in top gear!

partzkid · 28-11-2009, 11:02 AM

100% that that clutch has been destroyed from one isolated incident. you don't see a clutch cover crack like that from "wear and tear". the guy who drove your car should get a job testing clutches!!!

partzkid

Nick P · 28-11-2009, 01:51 PM

was the driver an indian? <- just a crack @ taxi drivers here in melbourne.

mustang70 · 28-11-2009, 07:48 PM

If they do have security footage, and they're certain that the car was not driven hard, then you think they'd happily show the footage to you to clear themselves. If footage does exist ask them to reveiw it and even if they dont show you,you'd assume once they know what really went on they will pay out. surely they're not short of a dollar.

It's not uncommon for people to claim 'you damaged this... you scratched my car here..' etc after someone else have the care of your car. People always have a good look at their car AFTER getting it back but not before. They'd be used to this and their standard answer would be to deny everything.This on the other hand could not fall into that category.
50% offer of payment is pretty much an admission of guilt isn't it?

MITCHAY · 28-11-2009, 09:02 PM

I have only seen a clutch that bad in my life once and it was my brothers Excel from absolute abuse. Checked your tyres by any chance? Might be an easy sign if it's been thrashed.

MAGPIE · 28-11-2009, 09:15 PM

As MITCHAY said have you checked your tyres/inner guards also have you checked the car park for evidence of burn outs ?

roosterfan · 29-11-2009, 08:50 AM

Thanks guys, the moron valet parker was a bombay cabbie funny enough, and most people at ford are saying that the clutch has been stuffed in a single incident most likely taken it to about 8000rpm in top gear trying to get the thing moving on the exit ramp. After a lot of discussion and further talks with Ford the hotel manager has agreed that they may have contributed to the incident an has agreed to pay in full. It only took them 3 weeks and a whole lot of running around but the right result has finally come. Take care when leaving your car with vlates. Cheers

Jason[98.EL] · 29-11-2009, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roosterfan

Thanks guys, the moron valet parker was a bombay cabbie funny enough, and most people at ford are saying that the clutch has been stuffed in a single incident most likely taken it to about 8000rpm in top gear trying to get the thing moving on the exit ramp. After a lot of discussion and further talks with Ford the hotel manager has agreed that they may have contributed to the incident an has agreed to pay in full. It only took them 3 weeks and a whole lot of running around but the right result has finally come. Take care when leaving your car with vlates. Cheers

Great to see a good outcome well done for not giving up on it

I hate leaving my car in valet parking but sometimes you don't have a choice

Jason

phillyc · 29-11-2009, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roosterfan

Thanks guys, the moron valet parker was a bombay cabbie funny enough, and most people at ford are saying that the clutch has been stuffed in a single incident most likely taken it to about 8000rpm in top gear trying to get the thing moving on the exit ramp. After a lot of discussion and further talks with Ford the hotel manager has agreed that they may have contributed to the incident an has agreed to pay in full. It only took them 3 weeks and a whole lot of running around but the right result has finally come. Take care when leaving your car with vlates. Cheers

Great result. Most likely the valet couldn't drive manuals. Chose a gear, any gear, and revved it to the moon and back trying to get it to move up the ramps.

PS Man, that is one abused clutch.

**ebxr8240** · 29-11-2009, 11:01 AM

Reminds me of an email going around where a woman bought a Honda or similar car and thought it was an auto...
After driving 60 / 80kph or so she cooked the engine...
Could be same person ???

Whitey Ford · 30-11-2009, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

I got over 200,000km on the factory clutch of my Festiva, and it was only changed due to the fact that the engine was being pulled out and put into another car I bought cheap after an accident.

I have never replaced a clutch due to wear in my own cars, ever.

I've put hundreds of thousands of kilometers on manual cars, including manual V8 and I6 Falcons.

Pulled an engine a few months ago out of a car that had led a hard life for 180,000km and the clutch still had another 200,000km in it easily. Replaced it anyway, for the same reason you did, but there was nothing wrong with it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ebxr8240

Reminds me of an email going around where a woman bought a Honda or similar car and thought it was an auto...
After driving 60 / 80kph or so she cooked the engine...
Could be same person ???

Girl I work with called me to ask why her automatic Lancer hire car wouldn't go above 80km/h on the freeway.

It was in 1 and not D. I can't even imagine the racket it must have been making at max rpm on the freeway.

Good reason not to buy an ex-hire car.

greens_tuf · 30-11-2009, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roosterfan

Thanks Jason,
I have sent the report from Ford to the hotel today, lets see what happens.
I have also posted photos http://www.fordforums.com.au/photos/...ppuser=2149826 , go to gallery search roosterfan and the clutch and pressure plates are there.

Cheers
Gary

Ouch! that is fried to the max, with tandori spices on top. Man he must have done some really stupid things to be able to break the pressure plate!!! And the clutch, my god that thing is toast!

It's good to hear that you have got it all sorted out now!

Wally · 30-11-2009, 02:53 PM

I know it's a good outcome for the OP, but the witness marks on the fingers indicate a different story to me and I think our indian friend may be wrongly accused.

I'd like to see the "warped" flywheel. Cast iron is extremely hard to warp; even when blokes spruik they have warped rotors they actually have DTV.

My diagnosis = bearing permanently engaged against cover fingers.

XR Martin · 30-11-2009, 06:50 PM

My guess is the guy didnt know how to drive a manual, we had a guy at work use a Prado who did a similar thing to its clutch. He never bothered to let anyone know he only knew how to drive auto, $3500 later and it was back on the road.

Yellow_Festiva · 30-11-2009, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wally

I know it's a good outcome for the OP, but the witness marks on the fingers indicate a different story to me and I think our indian friend may be wrongly accused.

I'd like to see the "warped" flywheel. Cast iron is extremely hard to warp; even when blokes spruik they have warped rotors they actually have DTV.

My diagnosis = bearing permanently engaged against cover fingers.

DTV???