Sydney motor show f****>>Up - Page 3

fast66 · 27-10-2005, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Des

Hows this just off the top of my head:

1. Chasis hard points.
2. Basic suspension (though they did add two "links" and dropped the rigid axle, then re-engineered to add it back for some utes)
3. Door openings (especially rear)
4. Most, if not all of the floor pan.
5. Manual Gearbox
6. 4 speed auto (though they have added a heavy duty version)
7. Basic dash structure

Most, if not all of the above has been changed on the Falcon over the same period (needed to be as well). To the point that Holden are now behind the eightball. The VE will be the first all new Commodore since the VN, therefore, today's Commodore still has parts of the VN underneath.
My post stands.

Are you blind? or as I suggested just ignorant.

AU Falcon -> BF Falcon
1 - All chassis hard points are the same
2 - Falcon still using Live rear from XD or even earlier in the ute series (with coils instead of leaf) Commodore was the first to introduce IRS accross the board (as crap as it is). Now falcon has IRS
3 - Actual doors are the exact same. Same as the roof.
4 - Entire floor pan exactly the same.
5 - Commodores manual gearbox updated from 5 speed to 6 speed. and now new 6 speed for 6 cyl. Similar situation for falcon.
Commodores auto now a five speed (up spec models) Same as falcon (6SP)
6 - Commodores dash structure is completely new from VT/VX to VY/VZ, same situation for Falcon.

What about engines?? the Current 4.0 is a evolution of a 170CU USA motor from the sixties. Same as the 3.8 in Holden, (now a brand new 3.6 V6.
Both camps V8s, updated.

So no, your post does not stand, it highlights that your opinions of the red brand are based on inaccurate information, and that makes your assessment invalid. My point is that both the falcon and commodore have developed at the same rate. Funny about that, given its the same pool of engineers that design both, and the same suppliers who make the parts!!
The fact that Ford had to spend so much means that we should have a better product than Holden (which we all think we do), but Holden still sells more cars, so why would they go and spend heaps of $$$ when the market tells tham they dont have to. If Falcon suddenly came along and started to sell more cars, don't you think Holden would do something about it?? $$.

You are obviously one of those blind Ford fans who thinks the BA was an all new Falcon, instead of a $500,000 000 update to a product that the public hated. And as such has put the development of a new Falcon platform back at least 5 years.
Make no mistake, when VE is released, Ford Australia will be in for a world of pain. There is no "ALL new Falcon platform" on the horison (to the same extent as VE). Ford will be competing against VE with a platform that is 10 years old, albeit with major (costly) updates. No matter how good we think the Falcon is, its not a fair comparison, and will get thumped.
Don't get me wrong, I love my Fords, but I hate listening to one sided inaccurate arguements. It does nothing for our brand except show us as being ignorant. No doubt the Holden forums are guilty of the same, but does that mean we must aswell?

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Dezza · 27-10-2005, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fast66

Are you blind? or as I suggested just ignorant.

AU Falcon -> BF Falcon
1 - All chassis hard points are the same
2 - Falcon still using Live rear from XD or even earlier in the ute series (with coils instead of leaf) Commodore was the first to introduce IRS accross the board (as crap as it is). Now falcon has IRS
3 - Actual doors are the exact same. Same as the roof.
4 - Entire floor pan exactly the same.
5 - Commodores manual gearbox updated from 5 speed to 6 speed. and now new 6 speed for 6 cyl. Similar situation for falcon.
Commodores auto now a five speed (up spec models) Same as falcon (6SP)
6 - Commodores dash structure is completely new from VT/VX to VY/VZ, same situation for Falcon.

Actually, the BA/BF is built on a longer wheelbase than the AU, meaning changes to the floorpan. Also, the doors are the only panels shared on the sedans. The BA/BF have a flatter roof than the AUs, combined with squarer front and rear windscreens.

Another thing I have to point out is that the BA didn't just introduce a new dash. It introduced a whole new interior including new door trims. On the other hand the VY kept the old VT/VX door trims. The dash and door trims are made out of vastly different plastics so the Commodore misses out on the consistent feel between dash and doors. This makes the BA interior feel a lot nicer

RED_EL_XR8 · 27-10-2005, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fast66

Are you blind? or as I suggested just ignorant.

.................................................. ...................................

No doubt the Holden forums are guilty of the same, but does that mean we must aswell?

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Are you errant? Or just absent minded in not reading the Site Terms & Conditions ? Others are entitled to an opinion, you are entitled to yours! (If you can present it in a well mannered form.)

It would be wise to present your debate on its own merit, not by having a shot at other posters. I don't give a fig what goes on on other forums, but I would ask you to not attempt to name-call those with contrary viewpoints whilst at AFF.

fast66 · 27-10-2005, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RED_EL_XR8

Are you errant? Or just absent minded?
I don't give a fig what goes on on other forums, but I would ask you to not attempt to name-call those with contrary viewpoints whilst at AFF.

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SunDrifter · 27-10-2005, 11:14 AM

ooh, get out the banning stick Red!

RED_EL_XR8 · 27-10-2005, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SunDrifter

ooh, get out the banning stick Red!

No! That is entirely dependent on continued behavior! I have to follow a set of rules just like everyone else!

chief · 27-10-2005, 07:14 PM

I went to the show and asked a few questions and some of the people there starred at me and some gave me some answers. I was attacked verbally because aholden nut came over and said it looked just like the last falcon, and yes it does to an extent with some modifications. I pointed out the differences that he knew and just went off about how Ford does this and Ford does that. It must of been tough for peopke manning the stands because fom what I can gather there wasn't much information to share, plus people just going off the deep end for no reason.