Plastic Car Engines. The way of the future???

[naddis01]

Sorry if it is a repost.

http://www.carpoint.com.au/news/2009...industry-17290

Originally Posted by Carpoint

Car engines: the next frontier for the plastics industry?

words - Jeremy Bass

The plastic engine has proved too radical an idea to attract mainstream attention to date. But there are advocates who say its time might have come
Plastic doesn't have much of a time of it in popular sentiment. That much maligned substance of which so much of our lives is now made is synonymous much more with cheap-and-nastiness and choking dolphins than amazingness. But it is amazing stuff, mark our words. Much more amazing than most of us realise.

For one thing, plastic is not a single substance. Plastic is countless in varieties and infinitely variable in its qualities, from the glassy brittleness of a Ferrero Rocher box to the flexibility of string, from the gossamer delicacy of a freezer bag to the unyielding strength of the carbonfibre reinforced varieties used in countless industrial applications and beyond.

Twenty-five years after plastics engineer Ned Steinberger ran his pickup truck over the neck of his radical headless electric bass guitar prototype to find it didn't even go out of tune, Boeing is well on the way to launching a commercial airliner made almost entirely of plastics (okay, the Dreamliner is as much overdue as it is vaunted, and that is due to a few structural strength issues around the joints, but you know what I mean...).

Now, with a building imperative among car makers to match strength with lightness, plastic might be stepping up to face its next big challenge: making up those primary constituent parts of an internal combustion engine normally reserved for cast iron and aluminium and alloys. Namely, the block and the cylinder head.

In this, it has a staunch long-term ally in US engineer Matti Holtzberg, who's been working on the concept for four decades. To no avail so far, despite the successes he's had with prototype engines and parts since the 1980s, even in the high-stress environment of motor racing. Until now, the mainstream auto industry, famous for its riskophobic conservatism, hasn't seen cause for interest.

But the urge to crack down on weight is gaining power, and one of the main carriers of weight in a conventional vehicle is its engine. Which is why ears are starting to up at Holtzberg's claims that plastics deliver a 30-35 per cent weight advantage over aluminium.

The New York Times reports he's signed a deal with Texan chemicals giant Huntsman Corporation. The deal and its timing could give the idea the fillip it needs -- Huntsman employs 12,000 and turns over US$10 billion a year, much of it supplying auto parts.

Ever since he recast a 2.3-litre Ford Pinto four in composites 30 years ago, Holtzberg and his company Polimotor have proved repeatedly there's no reason plastics can't be used to this depth in internal combustion engines.

That engine used metals for the cams, the crank and the combustion chamber surfaces -- the piston crowns and cylinder liners. But the rest was plastic -- the piston skirts and connecting rods, the block, much of the cylinder head, the oilpan, pretty much the lot.

His next version was good for 225kW -- well over twice the power of the standard Ford mill. It weighed just 69kg, down from the 188 of the original.

In the mid-1980s, Holtzberg put a Polimotor engine using sponsor Amoco's Torlon plastic resin in a Lola car for the International Motor Sports Association's Camel Lights series with considerable success. That is, the only problem the team suffered in half a dozen races stemmed from a broken connecting rod sourced from elsewhere.

It was enough to attract a cover story in Popular Science and knocks on the door from Ford. To no effect in the end. "Ford was technically interested," Holtzberg told New York Times writer Don Sherman. "The Popular Science article gave them plenty of free publicity, but they actually contributed nothing to the Polimotor project."

Now, with climate change shaking the industry out of its complacency and many a big old name landing on its backside in the financial crisis with sufficient force to crack its mind open, the plastic engine's time might be here.

Huntsman Corporation advanced materials VP James Huntsman hopes so. "We realise that supplanting proven processes is a long and difficult challenge," he said in a statement. "We're convinced that the time is right for a composite engine."

[TUF_302]

Plastic engines? that seems just plain wrong, and sounds stupid lol!

[auxr]

Where's RG and his lego friends.

[SSD-85]

Detroit iron then becomes Detroit Plastic.....

[Rev28K]

A good concept. Helps weight distribution. Has a knock on (cascade) effect with the structural surroundings. Could help packaging - think of something like the forward slung Boss 290 engine with no affect on handling. Thick walled blocks for high boost applications would weigh less. It may be more recyclable - BMW use recycled plastic on some engine intakes now although I don't think that they need high grade stuff for this application.

My daily driver FWD has about 60/40 f/r weight distribution so platic engine parts would help that.

It'll be interesting to see how they get the blocks to cope with low arctic temperatures.

Clubmans and other lightweights may get under 400kg with these engines - the motorbike engined ones do now anyway.

Adds new meaning to the "classic not plastic" stickers and referring to "Tupperware" rod replicas

[ebxr8240]

Now "plastic fantastic' to quote an America's cup slogan..
Good enough for the 380 Jet so I guess o/k for engine blocks...

[Fairlane]

Dont really see the point, the internal combustion engine is on the way out anyway. Though i may be proved wrong.

An interesting point though, ive read that in the late 50s Detroit was poised to go to Alloy engines big time due to high steel prices (Buick/Rover V6 & V8 being one), but they ran into a few difficulties with oil consumption, not to mention intense lobbying to go back to cast iron by the Steel manufacturers, who argued that aluminium would never be any good in an engine, and the manufacturers gave up.

Now however everyone is now using aluminium

[Rev28K]

Originally Posted by Rev28K

Clubmans and other lightweights may get under 400kg with these engines - the motorbike engined ones do now anyway.

that should've read closer to 400kg (guess 450kg)

Stupid iPhone cut out when I wanted to edit

[RG]

Originally Posted by auxr

Where's RG and his lego friends.

Here I am!

[Mr Hardware]

lol wut

[Polyal]

If that lego setup is not a kit the guy is a genius!

[RG]

Originally Posted by Polyal

If that lego setup is not a kit the guy is a genius!

It isn't and it runs.

[Mr Hardware]

when you say runs, you mean it turns with manual cranking, right?

[RG]

Originally Posted by Mr Hardware

when you say runs, you mean it turns with manual cranking, right?

No. I mean runs as in turns to 1440rpm. It's crazy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8ut5ND3agI

[ebxr8240]

As with alloy there are compositions mixed together to make very strong as required..
Who would have thought 20 years ago that plastic would be used to protect formula 1 drivers etc ?? Well ?? carbon fibre ?? So many different forms..
I guess a plastic engine would have iron / steel sleeves etc much like the alloy blocks...

[Polyal]

Oh my god! That is impressive. Mix of time and skill there.

[Hardtopxb]

Lol,I hope it's heat/fire proof..

[DougM]

"Pastic" can be quite a general term.....There are materials that are a composite of ceramic,alloys and "plastic" which are called palstic....

Ford had a couple of Mustangs in the 80's, racing in the IMSA sports car series....They were basically all composite, even the blocks!!! The cylinders had alloy liners. They were 4 cyl turbo's. They did it as an R&D exercise as well as to showcase what can be done with composites.

[FPV8U]

Not going to lie, have now become instantly interisted in building a Lego V8...

[F6T]

Originally Posted by FPV8U

Not going to lie, have now become instantly interisted in building a Lego V8...

me too! I was a lego master in my day. Still got most of the sets.

bloody interesting read. Plastics are all oil derivatives though aren't they - requiring even more oil!! although, you'd hate to think of all the oil that would be used in mining the current metals for a modern combustion engine.

[Highway]

Originally Posted by RG

Here I am!

I think i will build me one of them!!!

is there a add on blocks for a blower??

[auxr]

Originally Posted by HighwayXB

I think i will build me one of them!!!

is there a add on blocks for a blower??

Bwa ha ha - you guys crack me up, no wait - forget the blower, twin turbo the sucker.

[robertjp]

So I take it the ZF6 is your next project?

[Ohio XB]

I went through Auto tech school in 1987. In 1988 I was working in the field and I read in industry magazines about a plastic engine that had been invented. It's only taken 21 years for someone to say "Now might be the time."

I wonder if they made 21 years worth of progress on it??


Steve

[jcxr]

They,ve already made one, its called an LS1.

[Nikked]

Brings a new meaning to the tearm "melt a piston"

Now 2ltrs will really be milk cartons....

[kezzer]

Originally Posted by jcxr

They,ve already made one, its called an LS1.

I love mine!!

I would only buy ford for the I6 (already have) hopefully the coyote changes things

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by jcxr

They,ve already made one, its called an LS1.

I thought all Holden engines were already plastic.

[robertjp]

no only the media that reports on them

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by naddis01

Sorry if it is a repost.

http://www.carpoint.com.au/news/2009...industry-17290

This is what I love.

Ever since he recast a 2.3-litre Ford Pinto four in composites 30 years ago, Holtzberg and his company Polimotor have proved repeatedly there's no reason plastics can't be used to this depth in internal combustion engines.

That engine used metals for the cams, the crank and the combustion chamber surfaces -- the piston crowns and cylinder liners. But the rest was plastic -- the piston skirts and connecting rods, the block, much of the cylinder head, the oilpan, pretty much the lot.

His next version was good for 225kW -- well over twice the power of the standard Ford mill. It weighed just 69kg, down from the 188 of the original.

Can you imagine a 100-150kg weight reduction?! That's like removing 1 or 2 passengers!

Oh and can you imagine a Pinto with 225kW?!