Should the voting age be raised to 30?

[flappist]

What is it with the youth of today?
Where is the power and the passion?

When I was a teenager we did not just roll over when the Government did things "for our own good". We stood up and made a difference.

Right to march. Many were arrested until the tyrants worked out that they were in a losing battle.

Sydney Mardi Gras. Being gay was a criminal offence (punishable by being locked up with a lot of other people of the same gender so go figure).

Eco issues. Franklin, Iwasaki, Lake Pedder etc.

War issues. How many street marches and civil disobedience has there been over Iraq & Afganistan as opposed to Vietnam.

We got angry and did something about it.
We rolled federal and state governments as well as individual politicans.

Now if you are really angry you post on a forum, twitter and facebook.

Alcopop tax. Absolute scam aimed square at gen Y
Speed cameras. Scam.
Red P, Green P now 3 years, all about control and domination.
Credit card/phone bill/HECS financial domination.
And so much more.....

The morons (of all sides) keep getting back in and every time I have asked a gen Y about what they believe in and support all I seem to get is O.M.G. LOL.

So should the voting age be raised to 30 until a new generation comes through who is not totally submissive?


P.S. this is sarcasm......(or is it?)

[sarrge2001]

Originally Posted by flappist

Where is the power and the passion?

Now if you are really angry you post on a forum......

A touch of irony......

That aside, as you point out, the world has changed. People have changed and standards have changed and most people (all generations) are more accepting (apathetic??) about changes and issues that affect them.

When it comes to voting, i definately think people need to think long and hard about the issues...... protest votes to minor parties don't really help! Lack of credible opposition (states) probably has a lot to do with this.

Although the country did run quite well recently without a proper government LOL

[My poor XF]

Originally Posted by flappist

So should the voting age be raised to 30 until a new generation comes through who is not totally submissive?


P.S. this is sarcasm......(or is it?)

Gee I hope its sarcasm. We aren't all like that. Granted I haven't marched, but I ring talkback and email politicians and made damn sure my vote wasn't wasted. Hell I'm not even on Facebook.

[|||]

gen y know there's at least another 10-15 years of the baby boomers running the show. not much point getting politically active when the largest group of voters are conservative white folks.

[BOSHOG]

personally id like to see more marches. everyone i speak to is "over getting screwed" but do nothing about it, im not different

i think society needs a touch of mob mentality brought back to regain our power, as being forced to elect one fool over another simply isnt working

[grandpa_spec_F6]

Most have a "lie down and take it" attitude. Being a Gen Y and also uni student, one thing has always struck me.

Anyone who protests or supports a cause at the front of the uni usually tries to interact with people and get them to also support it. However, most will simply put their ear buds into their ears and wave them off, or hold a mobile up to their ear until they are past them.

Once the people have passed them, especially in groups, I have found that the people were not only glad to be past them, but then ridiculed them for supporting their "cause".

As the cause was not within the scope of reference for most of them, labeling them as 'freaks' or 'weirdos' seemed to comfort the group, which was echo'd with almost a pack mentality.

Take what you want from that, but I see people who are too self absorbed, too small minded and ultimatly too darn lazy to do anything about it. If I ever mentioned something political in my circle of friends, it would be "who gives a stuff about that?" and the conversation of cars, booze and girls would continue unaltered, even at uni.

The majority of people my age who I try and talk politics with have the same frigging attitude, and the conversation usually goes like this:
Me: "So what do you think of so and so?"
Person: "IM NOT VOTING FOR THEM!"
Me: "Oh really? Do you agree / disagree with their point of view?"
Person: "*silence*.... nah coz mum and dad said they're idiots"

[flappist]

Originally Posted by |||

gen y know there's at least another 10-15 years of the baby boomers running the show. not much point getting politically active when the largest group of voters are conservative white folks.

Yeh, its not like 3 independents and a green could control the balance of power between the other 146 members and therefore the policy implementation for the next 4 years......

[|||]

Originally Posted by flappist

Yeh, its not like 3 independents and a green could control the balance of power between the other 146 members and therefore the policy implementation for the next 4 years......

totally. no way those independents will act in the interest of their conservative consitituents.

[burnz]

Originally Posted by flappist

What is it with the youth of today?
Where is the power and the passion?

When I was a teenager we did not just roll over when the Government did things "for our own good". We stood up and made a difference.

Right to march. Many were arrested until the tyrants worked out that they were in a losing battle.

Sydney Mardi Gras. Being gay was a criminal offence (punishable by being locked up with a lot of other people of the same gender so go figure).

Eco issues. Franklin, Iwasaki, Lake Pedder etc.

War issues. How many street marches and civil disobedience has there been over Iraq & Afganistan as opposed to Vietnam.

We got angry and did something about it.
We rolled federal and state governments as well as individual politicans.

Now if you are really angry you post on a forum, twitter and facebook.

Alcopop tax. Absolute scam aimed square at gen Y
Speed cameras. Scam.
Red P, Green P now 3 years, all about control and domination.
Credit card/phone bill/HECS financial domination.
And so much more.....

The morons (of all sides) keep getting back in and every time I have asked a gen Y about what they believe in and support all I seem to get is O.M.G. LOL.

So should the voting age be raised to 30 until a new generation comes through who is not totally submissive?


P.S. this is sarcasm......(or is it?)

no it's not sarcasm, it's nailing it on the head..

ppl now have a habbit of someone else will stand up for me!!
"they cant do this can they" complacency additude..

govco will allways push the limits until the ppl get of their fat clacks and "tell the government what they really think"
dont wait till the polls as it sends mixed msg, tell them strait up, pull no punches..

[gtfpv]

Originally Posted by flappist

What is it with the youth of today?
Where is the power and the passion?

When I was a teenager we did not just roll over when the Government did things "for our own good". We stood up and made a difference.

Right to march. Many were arrested until the tyrants worked out that they were in a losing battle.

Sydney Mardi Gras. Being gay was a criminal offence (punishable by being locked up with a lot of other people of the same gender so go figure).

Eco issues. Franklin, Iwasaki, Lake Pedder etc.

War issues. How many street marches and civil disobedience has there been over Iraq & Afganistan as opposed to Vietnam.

We got angry and did something about it.
We rolled federal and state governments as well as individual politicans.

Now if you are really angry you post on a forum, twitter and facebook.

Alcopop tax. Absolute scam aimed square at gen Y
Speed cameras. Scam.
Red P, Green P now 3 years, all about control and domination.
Credit card/phone bill/HECS financial domination.
And so much more.....

The morons (of all sides) keep getting back in and every time I have asked a gen Y about what they believe in and support all I seem to get is O.M.G. LOL.

So should the voting age be raised to 30 until a new generation comes through who is not totally submissive?


P.S. this is sarcasm......(or is it?)

great post flappist . i agree .
i think over the years the gov probably has had support slowly taking the rights of generation Y off them , and they have grown into it . we now have so many rules , and i think if people break them or go against the govt , in the form of strikes , rallies etc . the media, gov and general public quickly condemn . the natural response i guess would be a draw back .
it seems to have happened in every area , social skills, motivation, hard work, etc etc . but i think it is probably harder now in each of these areas then it ever was . ie imagine whistling at a girl or paying a complinent in the wrong place these days , ie the footpath, work, etc you can be put down and disciplined for it . and thats just one example. 50% of people are now casually employed , thats a motivation and wealth killer for a start , if anyone protests against this , imagine the abuse replies off govt , media, businesses etc .
the solution , stay at home play the net, get on forum etc etc . having an opinion on race in australias mass multicultural society these days , well better lock yourself away now , as australia has no culture , and no common ground .
at the end of the day , perhaps the baby boomers and gen X'rs may have played a bigger role in this than we think , it's sad .
the only ones with the urge these days are seeking big. big wealth for little effort , or nothing at all , and the ones that seek with the killer instinct are entrepeuners.

[irlewy86]

Originally Posted by flappist

....

War issues. How many street marches and civil disobedience has there been over Iraq & Afganistan as opposed to Vietnam. Largest on record if I remember correctly

We got angry and did something about it. Really, almost 50 years of National rule at the State level and with the exception of a brief Whitlam detour almost the same at Federal.
We rolled federal and state governments as well as individual politicans.

Fact is Gen Y is smaller than Gen X and combined still much smaller than the Baby Boomer generation. Little wonder there was outraged protests in the 60's and 70's by children born and raised on the diet of Chiefly "Light on the Hill" type political ideology. It was a case of a few older British-Australians trying to oppress a majority of "young Aussie's."

Today's children were raised on a steady diet of Keating's globalisationist dreams and Howard's content based education both of which directed funding away from that evil socialist breeding ground, the State education system.

If anything we should be dropping the voting age to 16 (voluntary from 16 - 18 compulsory 18-up) for the following reasons.

1) The lean population triangle will serve no-one, especially future Australians. I'm so tired of people wasting the nations pulpit trying to re-write history while the future threatens to crush us.

2) At 16 by the time their 18 they will be under the rule of the government they decided

3) The 2-party system will no longer be able to rely on the "yeah but 30 years ago they did this" election mentality that dominates their policy agenda.

[irlewy86]

P.S Loaded poll

[gtfpv]

well said everyone . very interesting replies and thread . lots of real great points made so far . on the money i think

[grandpa_spec_F6]

Another thing I have noticed which I myself sometimes feel is that no matter how loud we raise our voices, weather it was at school, uni or otherwise, whatever agenda was put forward by the powers that be seemed to be steamrolled over everyone else's opinion.

Case and point, in highschool, we wanted a free dress day, we petitioned, got something ridiculous like 3/4 of all the school to sign it (hundreds of people), we campained, vocalised and did everything we could, but the deputy principle simply knocked it all back with one statement along the lines of "It does not conform to the principles and values of the school"

After all that effort, the hundreds who demanded change, it was a single narky old bat that had the final word, and ultimatly, forced her own values and beliefs onto an unwilling group of students.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by grandpa_spec_au

Another thing I have noticed which I myself sometimes feel is that no matter how loud we raise our voices, weather it was at school, uni or otherwise, whatever agenda was put forward by the powers that be seemed to be steamrolled over everyone else's opinion.

Case and point, in highschool, we wanted a free dress day, we petitioned, got something ridiculous like 3/4 of all the school to sign it (hundreds of people), we campained, vocalised and did everything we could, but the deputy principle simply knocked it all back with one statement along the lines of "It does not conform to the principles and values of the school"

After all that effort, the hundreds who demanded change, it was a single narky old bat that had the final word, and ultimatly, forced her own values and beliefs onto an unwilling group of students.

Yep and you all did not do it.

What would the old bat have done in three quarters of the students just turned up in casual clothes?

Expelled you all?
Some other form of punishment?

HER bosses would look at this and deduce she has lost control of the school and replaced HER.

That is the difference......we actually went through with our threats.

e.g. The solution for the alcopop tax.
Stop buying it outright and buy cheap spirits and mixers from supermarkets. The tax would stop. The profits would go throught the floor and therefor tax would be lowered and pressure would be bought to bear to remove it.

Another example.

CB radio was illegal in Australia with custodial penalties (except if you had a ham radio license which at that time was quite hard to get)

No one cared and lots of people just bought and used them.
There were several high profile prosecutions.
No one cared and lots of people just bought and used them.
A simple licensing system (revinue raising) was implemented.
No one cared and lots of people just bought and used them.
In the end they gave up and anyone can use a CB radio.

Compare this to mobile phones.

/me waits for the pre-programmed wowser response that using a phone while driving is dangerous........(because CBs aren't are they)

Can you imagine what would happen if EVERYONE just told the govco to get stuffed over phones in cars and took it to court.

Their would be screaming and yelling and all of a sudden the politicians would see their personal chances of being re-elected going down the drain and all of a sudden there would be an academic finding that phones save lives or some crap but more likely fine reduced and no points so it became a steady income stream...

[pottery beige]

Originally Posted by grandpa_spec_au

Another thing I have noticed which I myself sometimes feel is that no matter how loud we raise our voices, weather it was at school, uni or otherwise, whatever agenda was put forward by the powers that be seemed to be steamrolled over everyone else's opinion.

Case and point, in highschool, we wanted a free dress day, we petitioned, got something ridiculous like 3/4 of all the school to sign it (hundreds of people), we campained, vocalised and did everything we could, but the deputy principle simply knocked it all back with one statement along the lines of "It does not conform to the principles and values of the school"

After all that effort, the hundreds who demanded change, it was a single narky old bat that had the final word, and ultimatly, forced her own values and beliefs onto an unwilling group of students.

did you snap the old bats windscreen wipers off.. let her tyres down..??.. or just roll over and take it.....

[Fev]

Totally agree with you(not about raising the voting age though). Problem is, we don't have strong minded teachers and Gen X doesn't seem to give us much of a role model. The teachers aren't allowed to give us their own opinions and they're so scared they'll get disciplined they never speak to us as actual people. We're never told about politics in school AT ALL. All we get is some crappy Aussie history about how the colonies came together and a bit about English history and some knowledge about a few old Prime Ministers. We aren't taught the difference between the political parties. We see voting as an inconvenience.

I honestly think it's all a scam to dumb us down so that when they announce those silly $900 gift basket policies us youngens will go "Wooo money for us yeah" and not know the repercussions.

I hate it when Gen Y gets blamed for all of societies problems when we have no control over whats said and what happens and we aren't shown or taught how to get that say in what happens.

[Jim Goose]

I honestly think it's all a scam to dumb us down so that when they announce those silly $900 gift basket policies us youngens will go "Wooo money for us yeah" and not know the repercussions.

Bless you for seeing what it is!!!

The dumbing down of the nation, from poor education, to poor TV, poor reporting of important issues in the media.... has slowly made us a nation full of apathy and the "she'll be right mate" attitude when things arent right..

Look at the poor excuse of a court system, where punishment is a slap on the wrist and see you later...

The commercial media who "reports" on rubbish issues to turn our focus away from the real issues..

How our pollies spend (waste) money of flashy attension grabbing rubbish projects..

Certainly we need to educate (not in a biased way) in school and at home the younger generation with politics... and how things runs so they can make an informed choice.


This isnt happening, so they mostly dont know.

[grandpa_spec_F6]

Actually she was a tough old battle axe, over the years I was at the school I recall she had her tyres slashed, threats, various forms of defamation etc. however she never gave in to anyone or anything. If a single person uttered a word at the parade grounds she held the entire school back 1 minute... best we managed was nearly making it to lunch time from memory.

We considered just coming in casual dress however no one was willing to for fear of reprecussions, it went as far as the lunchtime bell.

Edit: After reading the above post, I was reminded of an english teacher who actually got me interested in the subject, she talked to us like human beings and was vocal about her opinions. She retired 2 years after I left, when I caught up with her she said that it was pressure from people "higher up" who disagreed with her teaching style

[Fev]

Originally Posted by grandpa_spec_au

Edit: After reading the above post, I was reminded of an english teacher who actually got me interested in the subject, she talked to us like human beings and was vocal about her opinions. She retired 2 years after I left, when I caught up with her she said that it was pressure from people "higher up" who disagreed with her teaching style

Thats a massive problem. I left my local high school at the end of year 11 because i purely wasn't learning anything. The teachers were like zombies.
I went to Bradfield College in North Sydney. It's a TAFE college where they only taught Yr 11/12(so HSC) as well as multiple vocational subjects. It was predominantly an arts school with a VERY good Drama/Arts/Music department. Eg:
The Drama teacher actually used to star in Neighbours years ago
My Music teacher was a professional drummer who played in many different bands(while he was teaching me mind you). He had also played with Yothu Yindi(99% sure).

Even the english, maths, business teachers were great people who treated us with respect and civility - like human beings. I learnt much more and matured alot faster after being in that college.

This College isn't for everyone though, alot of trouble makers went there for yr 11 but were usually booted out by 3rd semester as there isn't any "discipline" like in a normal school. It was up to YOU to get to class, get to class on time and do your work. It taught independence and time management. I COMPLETELY reccomend this college for anyone wanting something more in a school or parents who feel their school isn't giving their kids a real education.

[gtfpv]

Originally Posted by grandpa_spec_au

Actually she was a tough old battle axe, over the years I was at the school I recall she had her tyres slashed, threats, various forms of defamation etc. however she never gave in to anyone or anything. If a single person uttered a word at the parade grounds she held the entire school back 1 minute... best we managed was nearly making it to lunch time from memory.

We considered just coming in casual dress however no one was willing to for fear of reprecussions, it went as far as the lunchtime bell.

Edit: After reading the above post, I was reminded of an english teacher who actually got me interested in the subject, she talked to us like human beings and was vocal about her opinions. She retired 2 years after I left, when I caught up with her she said that it was pressure from people "higher up" who disagreed with her teaching style

when i was in high school in the early 80's a rapper came to school with a mowhawk . he got suspended for it . the whole high school students went on strike , we turned up at school and refused to go to class all day , a current affair turned up for the "school strike story" it never made TV but the boy was re instated immediately , and told to grow his hair back by the school . we stopped there , he grew his hair back to a mullet .

thinking further into it . what would happen today ? countless secenarios . perhaps the public school wouldnt say a thing , so it would not be and issue , and if it did cause a strike , parents would pull thier kids out and put them in a private school, where there wont be people walking through the door without a dress code ? have gen x created all this ?

[grandpa_spec_F6]

The board of education would intervene, mass reform of dress standard for public schools, teachers all reviewed for performance and 'sensitivity' training, the whole box and dice pretty much. It's as good as anyones guess, sure they couldn't have suspended us all, but no one cares anymore.

Seriously, when I think about it that was the real problem. Everyone was happy to jump on the band wagon... until things got a little bumpy and required some effort or commitment, then everyone bailed faster than Lindsay Lohan at a drug rehab clinic.

[ST]

Going by the last election I don't think it will matter what the minimum voting age will be, we don't seem to get our say anyway!

[Scott]

Voting should not be compulsory.

[Mr Hardware]

Those who have a problem with Generation Y forget who raised it

The selfish, gluttonous lifestyles the bulk of the baby boomer generation leads is a terrible example.

[Mad_Aussie]

Originally Posted by Mr Hardware

Those who have a problem with Generation Y forget who raised it

The selfish, gluttonous lifestyles the bulk of the baby boomer generation leads is a terrible example.

QFT

I honestly can't fathom people who turn around and say that younger people should be limited from doing anything... How can you forget so easily that you were young too? How would you feel if you've been waiting to turn 18 so you can have a say on how things are done, only to have someone turn around and say "Oh I think you should be 30 before being allowed to have a voice?".
In my opinion, the voting age should be moved down to 16, but have it non-compulsory. Then we don't end up with morons donkey voting and ending us up with a government that isn't truly what the majority wants, but the youth have a decent say in it too. Don't forget, its the next generations that have to live with the mistakes we make. They have just as much right to their input as anyone else.

[GreenMachine]

Originally Posted by Comrade Flappist

Yep and you all did not do it.

What would the old bat have done in three quarters of the students just turned up in casual clothes?

Expelled you all?
Some other form of punishment?

HER bosses would look at this and deduce she has lost control of the school and replaced HER.

Seems the ETU taught you a thing or two about collective action, mate!

It's true though - people of my generation are becoming increasingly politically weak and apathetic... We need a good, hard government policy to wake them up. Conscription, maybe?

[ST]

Originally Posted by Mr Hardware

Those who have a problem with Generation Y forget who raised it

The selfish, gluttonous lifestyles the bulk of the baby boomer generation leads is a terrible example.

Completely true, I don't know where people think they get their attitude and mindset from.

I don't know about non-compulsory voting but (young) people should definitely be properly educated on politics. If voting is compulsory then education on what we are voting for should be also.

[4bbl]

Originally Posted by flappist

Yep and you all did not do it.

What would the old bat have done in three quarters of the students just turned up in casual clothes?

Expelled you all?
Some other form of punishment?

HER bosses would look at this and deduce she has lost control of the school and replaced HER.

That is the difference......we actually went through with our threats.

e.g. The solution for the alcopop tax.
Stop buying it outright and buy cheap spirits and mixers from supermarkets. The tax would stop. The profits would go throught the floor and therefor tax would be lowered and pressure would be bought to bear to remove it.

Another example.

CB radio was illegal in Australia with custodial penalties (except if you had a ham radio license which at that time was quite hard to get)

No one cared and lots of people just bought and used them.
There were several high profile prosecutions.
No one cared and lots of people just bought and used them.
A simple licensing system (revinue raising) was implemented.
No one cared and lots of people just bought and used them.
In the end they gave up and anyone can use a CB radio.

Compare this to mobile phones.

/me waits for the pre-programmed wowser response that using a phone while driving is dangerous........(because CBs aren't are they)

Can you imagine what would happen if EVERYONE just told the govco to get stuffed over phones in cars and took it to court.

Their would be screaming and yelling and all of a sudden the politicians would see their personal chances of being re-elected going down the drain and all of a sudden there would be an academic finding that phones save lives or some crap but more likely fine reduced and no points so it became a steady income stream...

people continue to use and sell drugs, giving the bird to authority hasn't changed that!

[FTE217]

Originally Posted by Mr Hardware

Those who have a problem with Generation Y forget who raised it

The selfish, gluttonous lifestyles the bulk of the baby boomer generation leads is a terrible example.

Yes son its always our fault I forget you are right always