the 3 xa gt race cars

nathan.grylls · 01-12-2011, 12:14 PM

Can anyone tell me why ford built the 3 xa gt race cars as sedans and and not hardtops?
I can only gather that as the sedans were released in january and the hardtops not until july they wouldn't have had enough time to build them in preparation for Bathurst on 1st of october 1972.
As the hardtops were used for racing and the sedans weren't this seems a bit odd.
You can only imagine what could have been available in an xa xb hardtop if the supercar scare hadn't have happened!!!

Fev · 01-12-2011, 12:36 PM

You mean the XA GT-HOs right?

nathan.grylls · 01-12-2011, 12:48 PM

yes, but to be correct the only one plated as a gtho was the calypso green road car. the other three were referred to as gtho's but only plated as a gt.

RedHotGT · 01-12-2011, 01:09 PM

Well thats a simple question with a simple answer.

The coupes were never destined to be "HO"... The sedans were...

So - therefore they prepped the sedans because they had the "HO" specs??

Once the whole project got canned... development started on the coupes...

**Polyal** · 01-12-2011, 01:42 PM

I think reading that read on the "GTHO" from street ford mag here would be worth while

nathan.grylls · 01-12-2011, 03:00 PM

Thanks Polyal,
I have those street fords mags and the old mags from the 80s that featured the cars also, but they dont give a reason why the sedan was used over the hardtop.
Loftie has answered most of the question.
As the xa floor pan is a streched version of the xy and that all the HO cars were sedans, I guess that is where ford was heading at the time.

Bossxr8 · 03-12-2011, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loftie

Well thats a simple question with a simple answer.

The coupes were never destined to be "HO"... The sedans were...

So - therefore they prepped the sedans because they had the "HO" specs??

Once the whole project got canned... development started on the coupes...

The XB GT coupe was going to also offer the XB GTHO Ph 5 option, and not the sedan.

Fords plan was for the XA sedan to be the GTHO Ph4 and the XB coupe to be the HO Ph5. According to Howard Marsden anyway.

The sedan got the nod over the coupe for XA solely because the coupe was released later after the sedan.

nathan.grylls · 03-12-2011, 12:04 PM

Thanks Bossxr8,
thanks for your imput, it is a shame that the xb gtho coupe never made it into production as Marsden had planned.
But the rules had changed by then and they were building their cars more as race cars anyway, hence Moffat's awesome BRUT 33 xb.

gtxb67 · 03-12-2011, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

The XB GT coupe was going to also offer the XB GTHO Ph 5 option, and not the sedan.

Fords plan was for the XA sedan to be the GTHO Ph4 and the XB coupe to be the HO Ph5. According to Howard Marsden anyway.

The sedan got the nod over the coupe for XA solely because the coupe was released later after the sedan.

correct

maybe they needed time to sort the oil surge problems that the grip from the bigger coupe tyres would give. this is just an ignorant thought because I do not know. the works team did not use the coupe for virtually a full year from the phase 4 program being axed. john goss used one early in 73 and had problems with oil surge. of course the rules for 73 probably contributed more to the oil surge problems

Bossxr8 · 03-12-2011, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nathan.grylls

Thanks Bossxr8,
thanks for your imput, it is a shame that the xb gtho coupe never made it into production as Marsden had planned.
But the rules had changed by then and they were building their cars more as race cars anyway, hence Moffat's awesome BRUT 33 xb.

An XB GTHO ph 5 coupe would have been awesome. Shame it never got that far.

Damn you Evan Green.

Sprint XR8 · 03-12-2011, 02:20 PM

I think they planned on doing both sedan and hardtop GTHO.

pottery beige · 03-12-2011, 02:46 PM

cool history lesson.. i just jump in and drive the kents...

nathan.grylls · 03-12-2011, 04:17 PM

Great picture Coupe xb!, looks like a stand at a motor show.
Proves ford were thinking about an xa gtho coupe.

BAGT514 · 03-12-2011, 04:32 PM

The picture of the Phase 4's also show the calypso green coupe getting built at the same. The supercar scare unfortunately stopped the Phase 4 production before the cars were ever completely finished. The one car that was the most complete had the rear suspension and roll cage installed - the others were at various stages of completion. The 250 QC Phase 4 motors made their way into the RPO 83 cars (Phase 4's without the GTHO stamped on the compliance plates and let out very quietly so they could continue the race program) and also a few ZF/ZG Fairlaines and P5 LTD's.
Their was a very good write up of the Calypso green GTHO 4 door in Street Ford's magazine that had a little of the history of the other cars.

WMD351 · 03-12-2011, 05:02 PM

As well as the release date, I also read somewhere that the sedans weighed less and were more rigid?

ohzone · 03-12-2011, 05:11 PM

How different were the Phase 4's going to be compared to the RPO83's?
Having worked on a RPO83 Hardtop I was surprised how "basic Falcon V8" it looked compared to the Phase 3 HO sitting just 1 metre from it.

nathan.grylls · 03-12-2011, 05:53 PM

The 3 phase four race cars had a comprehensive roll cage fitted, the road car didnt. Apart from that a few things were changed for racing and thats it.
RPO83 was an option to get rid of the excess parts.
Early on you may have been lucky enough to get the reworked heads, maybe the 780 holley and extractors but after a while you may have only got a winged sump or detroit locker. It was what ever was available at the time, that is how parts ended up in fairlanes etc.
Most of the QC engines went to race teams, it would be rare to find one in a road xy or xa.

there is alot of info on www.ghto4.com

XRtowcar · 03-12-2011, 11:25 PM

Love the different bonnet on the HO's.
Tried to ask Moffat this question about why racing XA's were coupes after the XY sedans, but he misunderstood what i asked and gave me an answer about that all phase 3's were sedans.
Umm, yes.

MethodX · 03-12-2011, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

An XB GTHO ph 5 coupe would have been awesome. Shame it never got that far.

Damn you Evan Green.

Has anything ever been said as to what state of tune and what features these would have had?

Bossxr8 · 04-12-2011, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BAGT514

The picture of the Phase 4's also show the calypso green coupe getting built at the same. The supercar scare unfortunately stopped the Phase 4 production before the cars were ever completely finished. The one car that was the most complete had the rear suspension and roll cage installed - the others were at various stages of completion. The 250 QC Phase 4 motors made their way into the RPO 83 cars (Phase 4's without the GTHO stamped on the compliance plates and let out very quietly so they could continue the race program) and also a few ZF/ZG Fairlaines and P5 LTD's.
Their was a very good write up of the Calypso green GTHO 4 door in Street Ford's magazine that had a little of the history of the other cars.

There was no Ph 4 coupe built, there were rumours the running gear out of Bruce Hodgsons rally ph 4 was put into a coupe, but never proven.

The 250 QC motors were never built either as far as i'm aware, only a few QC engines were built for the race teams. The had ordered the 250 sets of parts for them, but the orders were either cancelled if not recieved yet, sold off to the aftermarket or slotted into random production engines to get rid of parts. They didn't get around to putting the 250 QC motors into production AFAIK. The supercar scare happened before they were ready for that so it didn't go ahead.

Bossxr8 · 04-12-2011, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MethodX

Has anything ever been said as to what state of tune and what features these would have had?

Not that i'm aware of, they would have done some initial planning but it never got beyond that. I'm sure it would not have been much more than reliability and fine tuning mods.

But the new ADR emissions rules probably would have killed the HO anyway, or they would have been de-tuned just like the regular XB's were.

Either way if the supercar scare didn't kill the HO the new ADR emissions rules would have anyway.

nathan.grylls · 04-12-2011, 09:11 PM

In Street Fords #87 Roy Velardi is trying to verify the authenticity of the coupe you are referring to with Bruce Hodgson's ph 4 engine.
It is at AN Racing getting an engine bay restoration done.
No record or whereabouts of the Bib Stillwell coupe though.

Nikked · 07-12-2011, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nathan.grylls

yes, but to be correct the only one plated as a gtho was the calypso green road car. the other three were referred to as gtho's but only plated as a gt.

Can someone confirm that the XA was the only car to have GTHO on its plate? the phase 1 2 3 didn't have that did they?

gtxb67 · 07-12-2011, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nikked

Can someone confirm that the XA was the only car to have GTHO on its plate? the phase 1 2 3 didn't have that did they?

yes they did

the production car was only xa to have it on the comp plate

WMD351 · 07-12-2011, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

The 250 QC motors were never built either as far as i'm aware, only a few QC engines were built for the race teams. The had ordered the 250 sets of parts for them, but the orders were either cancelled if not recieved yet, sold off to the aftermarket or slotted into random production engines to get rid of parts. They didn't get around to putting the 250 QC motors into production AFAIK. The supercar scare happened before they were ready for that so it didn't go ahead.

According to Marsden they only ever built about 20 QC motors all up for the racers, beginning back at Barthurst '71.
A $250 hand built option, reworked oil system, CC'd chambers, blue printed, valve work, heavily linished crank etc.
$250 freakin bucks! mind you the HO's only cost 5k but still...